Match day thread - NUFC v Fulham

[Remember Colo]

And whose fault is it if he sulks, lets his head drop, gets wound up easily, doesn't back track and gets a silly yellow card for letting people get to him?

Ritche essential created our second against Brighton and he never left our box defending against Huddersfield.

Could count on one hand the amount of times he's been like that this season. Unfortunately it gets picked up and analysed every time he does it whereas everyone else gets off scot free

You must have a lot of fingers on your hand then. He gets less stick than everyone else because he produces more goals and assists than nearly everyone else - those do tend to go hand in hand.

Sure he hasn't been without letdown games, but I dare you to find a player who doesn't. We do need more options though for creating goals from the midfield - we still have too few players who can create anything themselves.

[Duke]

Could count on one hand the amount of times he's been like that this season. Unfortunately it gets picked up and analysed every time he does it whereas everyone else gets off scot free

You must have a lot of fingers on your hand then. He gets less stick than everyone else because he produces more goals and assists than nearly everyone else - those do tend to go hand in hand.

Sure he hasn't been without letdown games, but I dare you to find a player who doesn't. We do need more options though for creating goals from the midfield - we still have too few players who can create anything themselves.

Feel free to name all the games then where he has noticeably had a worse attitude than his teammates.

He gets the same treatment as Ben Arfa did from some of our fans. Brilliant for ages then has one game where he's s*** or does something stupid and suddenly he's useless/can't be arsed/too rash etc. while ignoring the fact that our entire team was probably s**** in the same game.

[ALF]

Duke is Shelvey I reckon.

But in all seriousness, technically he's an absolutely brilliant footballer, genuinely one of England's best. But he can be marked out of a game pretty easily, in the position he plays he can't let that happen if he wants to actually be a good player. He loses his temper too easily, he's got away with a few little kick outs this season. There's more to football than being able to put a ball on a plate from 70 yards, the sooner that Shelvey realises that, the better he'll be.

Ritchie is a strange one, he's scored goals and got assists but he is a pretty negative wide man. Even if Atsu isn't scoring or getting an assist he runs at players and gets them going backwards, Ritchie has no pace and can't beat a man. He's had a good season but it could have been better.

[bodacious benny]

Someone summed Shelvey​ up perfectly on a match day thread a while ago; the bloke is thicker than a submarines door.

Good player, doesn't have two braincells to rub together.

[Remember Colo]

You must have a lot of fingers on your hand then. He gets less stick than everyone else because he produces more goals and assists than nearly everyone else - those do tend to go hand in hand.

Sure he hasn't been without letdown games, but I dare you to find a player who doesn't. We do need more options though for creating goals from the midfield - we still have too few players who can create anything themselves.

Feel free to name all the games then where he has noticeably had a worse attitude than his teammates.

He gets the same treatment as Ben Arfa did from some of our fans. Brilliant for ages then has one game where he's s*** or does something stupid and suddenly he's useless/can't be arsed/too rash etc. while ignoring the fact that our entire team was probably s**** in the same game.

Whoops, no, sorry I definitely misread the thread, I actually completely agree with you! I think I misread the thread thinking there was a post about Ritchie not being very good this season. I have no idea where I went wrong

I totally agree with you that Shelvey receives too much criticism, and there's a track record of players who have shown they have ability get held to a higher standard and criticized by different standards by the players who are consistently mediocre and never offer as much as they can.

[Remember Colo]

Duke is Shelvey I reckon.

But in all seriousness, technically he's an absolutely brilliant footballer, genuinely one of England's best. But he can be marked out of a game pretty easily, in the position he plays he can't let that happen if he wants to actually be a good player. He loses his temper too easily, he's got away with a few little kick outs this season. There's more to football than being able to put a ball on a plate from 70 yards, the sooner that Shelvey realises that, the better he'll be.

Ritchie is a strange one, he's scored goals and got assists but he is a pretty negative wide man. Even if Atsu isn't scoring or getting an assist he runs at players and gets them going backwards, Ritchie has no pace and can't beat a man. He's had a good season but it could have been better.

Personally I like both of them out wide (relatively speaking compared to what we've had on the wings for the last while), because regardless of how he's doing it, Ritchie has been very productive in each of his at least 3 seasons (success could go back even further, but I can't bother to look), and Atsu does show some promising traits, although he's hardly a prospect and needs to produce.

[TBC]

Whoops, no, sorry I definitely misread the thread, I actually completely agree with you! I think I misread the thread thinking there was a post about Ritchie not being very good this season.

Duke did say Ritchie wasn't very good, didn't seem to have much substance to it though.

[Duke]

Whoops, no, sorry I definitely misread the thread, I actually completely agree with you! I think I misread the thread thinking there was a post about Ritchie not being very good this season.

Duke did say Ritchie wasn't very good, didn't seem to have much substance to it though.

Nope I said he was one of the biggest let downs and he has been. Cost £13m after all, a huge fee for a Championship signing and he scored way more goals for Bournemouth IIRC than he has for us.

Yes he has scored a few but 4 of his goals have been penalties and 2 of his open play goals were against Rotherham in the 4-0. There's 6 of his 9 goals.

[TJR]

I must have missed the announcement that penalties no longer count. Along with results against Rotherham.

Goals are goals and wins are wins, it doesn't matter how you get them or who you get them against they're all just as important.

[bodacious benny]

He's also got 13 or 14 assists.

[Colly]

From the wing that's pretty impressive. I think we've discussed before actually, his output is objectively brilliant, but some of his performances even when he has produced a goal or assist have actually been s****. Very frustrating player, and didn't help his case when he had a go at the East Stand on Saturday after yet another poor decision.

[Duke]

I must have missed the announcement that penalties no longer count. Along with results against Rotherham.

Goals are goals and wins are wins, it doesn't matter how you get them or who you get them against they're all just as important.

Didn't they they didn't. I don't particularly see scoring penalties or against weak opposition when we're winning anyway as a great measure of success though.

[Remember Colo]

I must have missed the announcement that penalties no longer count. Along with results against Rotherham.

Goals are goals and wins are wins, it doesn't matter how you get them or who you get them against they're all just as important.

Didn't they they didn't. I don't particularly see scoring penalties or against weak opposition when we're winning anyway as a great measure of success though.

Then what's the excuse for all of the other players who don't score at all against the weaker sides. It's the same stick that was used against Gini. "Oh he only scored goals in x number of matches anyway" or "He only scored at home!" - well if the player is still out producing everyone else, what are their excuses? If it's so easy to score or assist goals that we discount theirs, then why can't the rest of the team do the same?

[Duke]

Didn't they they didn't. I don't particularly see scoring penalties or against weak opposition when we're winning anyway as a great measure of success though.

Then what's the excuse for all of the other players who don't score at all against the weaker sides. It's the same stick that was used against Gini. "Oh he only scored goals in x number of matches anyway" or "He only scored at home!" - well if the player is still out producing everyone else, what are their excuses? If it's so easy to score or assist goals that we discount theirs, then why can't the rest of the team do the same?

Gouffran and Perez have 5 and 6 goals and no penalties. Both have played less games. Mitrovic doesn't play, Atsu is in and out of the team and Diame is s****. That's all our attacking players.

[Duke]

Oh Murphy too but he's done well

[Remember Colo]

Then what's the excuse for all of the other players who don't score at all against the weaker sides. It's the same stick that was used against Gini. "Oh he only scored goals in x number of matches anyway" or "He only scored at home!" - well if the player is still out producing everyone else, what are their excuses? If it's so easy to score or assist goals that we discount theirs, then why can't the rest of the team do the same?

Gouffran and Perez have 5 and 6 goals and no penalties. Both have played less games. Mitrovic doesn't play, Atsu is in and out of the team and Diame is s****. That's all our attacking players.

I shouldn't have specifically said score, because he leads them both in assists too. It's an unnecessary debate, but my simple point was that Ritchie has contributed a lot this year and our other players haven't done enough for the past 2+ seasons to make me confident that they would pick up the attacking slack in his absence.

[Remember Colo]

To Perez's credit, he has one of the best goals/minute and assists/minute rates on our team

[Hjl]

That may be true, but when he starts games he seems to be ineffective. He works well as a sub however. Perhaps it's a mental thing? Or maybe his stamina just sucks and so he becomes useless after half an hour. Wasn't a lack of stamina an issue with him before?

[Duke]

Gouffran and Perez have 5 and 6 goals and no penalties. Both have played less games. Mitrovic doesn't play, Atsu is in and out of the team and Diame is s****. That's all our attacking players.

I shouldn't have specifically said score, because he leads them both in assists too. It's an unnecessary debate, but my simple point was that Ritchie has contributed a lot this year and our other players haven't done enough for the past 2+ seasons to make me confident that they would pick up the attacking slack in his absence.

He's done OK but I expected more for sure

[ALF]

I shouldn't have specifically said score, because he leads them both in assists too. It's an unnecessary debate, but my simple point was that Ritchie has contributed a lot this year and our other players haven't done enough for the past 2+ seasons to make me confident that they would pick up the attacking slack in his absence.

He's done OK but I expected more for sure

I'd agree with that. 15 goals and 17 assists in Bournemouths promotion season, needs another 6 goals and 10 assists to match that.