Rafa Review

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Rafa Review

Post by TBC » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:36 pm

Came across this brilliantly fan written, thought provoking piece on Rafa and thought it was worth sharing it to anyone who hasn't seen it yet:

https://medium.com/@ATKmichael/playing- ... .yx221pt0v
We all want the same thing, success. What success looks like and how we get there is what forms opinion and debate, sometimes as a coping mechanism or sometimes someone just wants to be loud about foreigners. With nearly 50,000 in the stadium, all with an emotional interest in what they’re watching, it’s impossible for everyone to feel and act the same way without the team leading us.

We’ve been efficient and effective in a league where not being as bad as the other team creates a competition lacking in quality. Listen to any pundit that had the misfortune of not being good enough for the Premier League and they’ll all tell you it’s tough, or those in deep denial will claim it “competitive”. It’s also pretty s*** but that rarely crops up.

We’ve been in cruise control this year but has Benitez over-thought the league and almost ignored a season that could have been used as building blocks for the future, or has he used it as a training ground exercise to find out who, if any, is worth keeping for when the real work starts next year?

In the last three years, the list of managers that have achieved promotion from this division include Alex Neil, Nigel Pearson, Steve Bruce, Harry Redknapp, Slavisa Jokanovic, Aitor Karanka and Eddie Howe, with Sean Dyche doing it twice. Only two of those remain in a job and whilst the stature of Benitez far outweighs those mentioned it could be argued that he was in better shape than all of them to achieve promotion, what with having the summer to prepare and despite posting a profit, still investing plenty to reshape the squad. This is no way belittles his achievements so far, it just doesn’t hold them that highly.

This might seem disrespectful both to the league and Benitez himself but long standing problems persist as we still lack creativity, pace and balance. The match-winners in Shelvey, Ritchie and Gayle are the difference as other teams lack the quality to punish mistakes and capitalize on any of our lacklustre performances. So, whilst a win is a win, it should also be viewed in context of the league and where we are heading in the future. It’s an uncertain road so forgive me for not riding the wave of eternal optimism simply because Benitez apparently knows best.

His last seven years haven’t reached the heights that the previous seven did. His longest spell at a club was at Napoli where he spent £110 million in two years as they went from 2nd to 5th. Destroying their most influential player Hamsik in the process as he annoyed an increasingly hostile fan base with his tactical stubbornness, refusing to play anything other than his 4231 formation. Sound familiar?

His hugely unpopular tenure at European Champions Inter Milan was perhaps a no-win situation, such was their success under Mourinho. It would need someone warmer than Benitez to inspire them as Bellamy and Zidane workie-ticket Marco Materazzi later claimed,

“What I did not like was the way he presented himself to the players. Great coaches like Marcello Lippi and Mourinho use unwritten rules, but Benítez wanted to write 10 or 12 things down. It was like we were back to school or had to follow traffic rules.”

If you’re wondering why our atmosphere might be flat, then consider that our assistant manager might be a TomTom.

His equally unpopular time at Chelsea was at least a footballing success despite the animosity from the crowd. Incidentally his record saw him lose one at home all season which asks the question, is it only our fans that think they control the outcome of matches? Imagine never winning anything for decades to start thinking it’s your fault, or imagine thinking that a small number of Geordies groaning is anything close to what he’s faced in Spain and Italy. Anyway, his Chelsea side went on to win the Europa League despite the pressure from the stands, a year after Di Matteo lifted the Champions League. Which is almost as weird as an Avram Grant side being a penalty away from winning the thing.

And despite the stats at the time, Real Madrid sacked him for perceived personality differences from training ground (and possibly Ronaldo’s phone) to pitch. His face most definitely didn’t fit and Zidane took over. Real have lost 5 games in 71 matches since Benitez left, they lost (still impressively**) 3 in Benitez’s 25 games in charge.

Restricting expression and the freedom to make mistakes is what we’re watching. For fans to “get on the player’s backs” as you might put it, occurs during specific moments, in the exact seconds they happen. No one is thinking about how much better it is with Benitez over Pardew, they’re thinking “why the f*** did Lascelles just belt the ball out for a goal kick?”. These responses are immediate and natural and not necessarily proof that they don’t support the team. When you’re aware the team isn’t going out to dominate sides but to navigate against them then not doing something as basic as the basics is going to infuriate.

I get the impression that everything around the game but the game itself is a hindrance to Benitez. Whilst I’ve been impressed in the past with his tactical re-organising after every goal instead of celebrating or enjoying the moment, that always working, always focussed attitude has slowly dehumanised the man. We are watching a team in his mould and without true success I’ll always be somewhat cold to someone who views the game as an event on the Krypton Factor, a show that had viewers watching people trying to remember things.

The Chronicle recently included an Opta video on managers in England and their preferred tactics. They seemed to view it as a good thing despite the Benitez part being followed directly with the line

“Another manager that follows this approach is Tony Pulis”.

Now, whilst Pulis is doing a great job at West Brom having done well at Stoke and subsequently Crystal Palace, I’m not sure if he came cap in hand to St. James’ that too many would be debating his giant face on the side of The Strawberry ahead of Kevin f***ing Keegan.

The game has most definitely changed and my concern is that Benitez hasn’t. 6 out of the last 7 years have seen over 1000 goals in the Premier League. Only twice during the previous 7 did that happen, with one of them being 1002. Oddly his time at Napoli saw a side with plenty of goals in them thanks in part to Higuain, but that came at the expense of anything resembling a defence as they conceded more goals than anyone in the top half of the table.

But the one constant throughout football is that the team with the ball is usually the one most likely to score. Anomalies such as Leicester last year and individual matches aside the top of the possession charts usually include teams further up the league than those at the bottom, indeed the Premier League this year has the top 6 in the top 6 of possession so what’s he setting us up for?

I’m not happy to simply say #inRafawetrust because which version of him are we trusting. The pre-2010 version, or the one that has “failed” at his last four clubs, depending of course on what you regard as success. His honours list and deep understanding of the game earns him time but it doesn’t earn him unquestionable support, that actually needs to be earned and getting out of a league that I forgot Preston were in until yesterday isn’t the surest-thing I’m looking for.

I look at that side and there’d be an argument to sell them all. It obviously wouldn’t be ideal but you could make a reasonable argument at why any of them aren’t good enough.

Mitrovic will likely be moved on if Benitez gets his way, and despite deserving of fondness Murphy couldn’t be expected to be anything more than backup to the backup. Perez meanwhile has done nothing to instil confidence and Gouffran should rightly be let go on a free. Assuming we’re not pinning our hopes on Adam Armstrong who has notched only 4 times this season, that leaves Gayle, a player with hamstring concerns and no notable success in the top flight. And that’s just the forwards.

Had Benitez not employed this formation for most of his career you’d be convinced that he hates our players more than anyone and wants to keep things as simple as possible as he deals with a midfield of Shelvey, Hayden, Colback and Diame, with our winger Matt Ritchie. If we go up, we need a major overhaul. I’ve no doubt Benitez knows this and I’ve no doubt he’ll mention it loads and even use it as an excuse if he leaves. He loves a “failed promise” in the transfer market for leaving places.

Currently we’re a side that has more match-winners than the other teams. Next year, if we get promoted that all becomes meaningless and the system he has in place invites pressure. We’re better away because we can counter, be more direct and not have to worry about such things as passing and moving. Who are we? We’re an Allardyce side, where enthusiasm and atmosphere is created by being the underdog, scrapping and fighting as you upset the odds. Problem is that we’re the favourites this year.

And yet through all the question marks and uncertainty I have about the bloke, I’m still happy he’s ours. I’m still happy there’s someone in place who genuinely wants to win and improve, and wants as little input from the top as possible. His approach might be effective, particularly in the cups where the margins for error are smaller, or against the bigger sides where containment is the wisest if not the most exciting tactic. So maybe the concerns of “yawn” tactical development and preparing for next year are unfounded. Maybe this is exactly what he wanted, this is how we play and this is who we are now. Which manages to be both understandable and depressing.
I'm still in the 'Rafa knows best' camp, but I know Rafa is starting to come under some criticism for certain things, including on this forum. IMO we need to remember Ashley's tenure so far as a whole - Rafa is the anomaly. No that doesn't mean we can't criticise but it shouldn't be forgotten.

Anyway something to read instead of working or when bored this weekend because it's Internationals. <cheers>
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Re: Rafa Review

Post by Chappy » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:58 pm

I've heard it said quite a lot before, and a mate of mine who's a Liverpool fan says he doesn't really have a plan B... and I think we've all seen evidence of that in a few games this season. Still, can't moan at the job he's done so far this season.

Should we go up more investment is needed, I'm pretty sure we're all agreed on that. I hope he's allowed the freedom he needs to bring in quality players - cuz although we're top of the Championship atm, I don't think this team is good enough for survival in the Prem.
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Re: Rafa Review

Post by ALF » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:28 pm

We've done alright. No better or worse than expected really. Think the most frustrating thing has been the way we've dropped points, it's always in games we really should be winning. That is down to the lack of a Plan B and the fact that he is quite a negative manager. Every time it looks like we could have a chance to open up a gap at the top we're losing/drawing games that we should win.

That's quite an in-depth look at it all but we're a much smaller club than the ones he's 'failed' at. Inter, Chelsea, Napoli and Real Madrid all had title aspirations and he couldn't deliver. We're not aiming for anything like that next season. Stability is what we want for now and to establish ourselves back in the Premier League. After that, who knows?

It's quite annoying as well that this season hasn't been used to bring players through or help them adapt. Last time we had Enrique, Simpson, Ranger and most notably Carroll all play at a young age and make an impact. This time we've had Hayden(who still has lots of critics) and Lascelles(who isn't playing particularly well). Maybe Yedlin if we're clutching at straws but he was wanted by PL teams after a good year last year.

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Re: Rafa Review

Post by Micky Quim » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:53 pm

Good read, enjoyed it <ok>

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Re: Rafa Review

Post by Heisen » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:17 pm

Decent read but we're working under way different parameters of success than any of the clubs mentioned there so I find that line of argument strange. It also comes across a bit snobbish (the Preston line rankles), almost as if we have a divine right to storm the league just because of who we are. He needs to remember how bad things were even a year ago when most of us were accepting years in the Championship after the damage McClaren inflicted. The Championship is a decent if unspectacular league. Yes, even teams like Preston.

The bit about the tactics - yes, it's frustrating that we don't play the most exiting brand of football but anyone who has watched Benitez sides over the years can't surely have expected a free flowing, attacking style? He's known as a tactical manager who is ruthless and cold and views the game purely from that standpoint. Also, view his celebrations post-Norwich as proof that he does care - he just isn't going to be a fist pumping, diving in with the players style like Klopp or Conte. When have you ever seen Wenger celebrating wildly? Never, and he's one of the most successful in PL history (depending on your viewpoint). That seems a bit of a petty point.

I think it's fair to say he isn't perfect but who is? He's a far superior manager to anyone we could hope to attract so he will always get more leeway with supporters and I think he's earned that due to his achievements in the game. Those criticising him are allowed to do so of course and he's not above criticism, but any criticism must be contained within the parameters of what he set out to do - get us promoted, and he is well on course to do that, regardless of rigid formations or questions about personnel. His point about Pulis and Allardyce is fair enough but neither Pulis nor Allardyce are Champions League, Europa League or League winners and likely never will be.

There is also no way of knowing how another manager would have done with this set of players but I'd imagine few would have got them to the top of the pile as they're a thoroughly average group. I believe in Rafa, what he's doing, how he's doing it, and he has my unquestionable support for now given that we sit top of the league with 8 games to go and every single one of us would have probably done anything to ensure that at the start of the season. He has also, by all accounts, done wonders behind the scenes in terms of revitalising the club and the community. I often wonder if sometimes our fans just can't be happy no matter what.

If our fans start getting on his back and drive him out for whatever reason later down the line, I hope they remember that when we have some jobsworth like Pardew or McClaren back in charge, given the keys to the Titanic and directing it firmly at the iceberg.
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Re: Rafa Review

Post by Footyfan » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:26 am

TBC , yes mate great read , and totally agree with it ! Can't wait to see what he does in the summer ! If we have a bad day at work, it's noted and you are under pressure! Some of these are having consistently bad days , but still picking up 30 or 40 grand a week and he still plays them ! Colback would have been sacked years ago if he performed in the real world as he does on a football pitch ! If Benitez sticks by him next season I will put my mortgage on relegation!

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Re: Rafa Review

Post by Don Sholeone » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:44 pm

Ive been frustrated by performances recently but that's down to knowing we can perform better, the one thing that's really pissing me off about the Rafa criticism is people seem to be approaching it like we are languishing in 13th place with no urgency to change things.

Just stop for a moment and look at where we are in the league, look at our squad and ask yourself how many would be first team regulars for premier league clubs, its been very frustrating at times but as it stands the job is in the process of being done, why the hell are people jumping on this stupid none discussion about Rafa when we are on the verge of going up and looking likely to win the league, seriously what more do some of these absolute arseholes of fans want from a CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM!
Hell what was these banners during the Pardew to McClaren era, we dont demand a team that wins we demand one that trys, well we have tried and as a bonus we have won... a lot. what do people actually want? its getting to the point our fans are portraying themselves as people who need something to moan about.

Of all the criticisms of our fan base, saying we are deluded, feel entitled as we are a big club ect, you know what, those criticisms are probably true, just look at what we are moaning about.

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Re: Rafa Review

Post by Heisen » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:26 pm

Don Sholeone wrote:Ive been frustrated by performances recently but that's down to knowing we can perform better, the one thing that's really pissing me off about the Rafa criticism is people seem to be approaching it like we are languishing in 13th place with no urgency to change things.

Just stop for a moment and look at where we are in the league, look at our squad and ask yourself how many would be first team regulars for premier league clubs, its been very frustrating at times but as it stands the job is in the process of being done, why the hell are people jumping on this stupid none discussion about Rafa when we are on the verge of going up and looking likely to win the league, seriously what more do some of these absolute arseholes of fans want from a CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM!
Hell what was these banners during the Pardew to McClaren era, we dont demand a team that wins we demand one that trys, well we have tried and as a bonus we have won... a lot. what do people actually want? its getting to the point our fans are portraying themselves as people who need something to moan about.

Of all the criticisms of our fan base, saying we are deluded, feel entitled as we are a big club ect, you know what, those criticisms are probably true, just look at what we are moaning about
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This. Some of our fans have been ridiculous lately.
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Re: Rafa Review

Post by TBC » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:54 pm

Heisen wrote:
Don Sholeone wrote:what do people actually want? its getting to the point our fans are portraying themselves as people who need something to moan about.

Of all the criticisms of our fan base, saying we are deluded, feel entitled as we are a big club ect, you know what, those criticisms are probably true, just look at what we are moaning about
.
This. Some of our fans have been ridiculous lately.
Agreed, the match day threads especially have made for surprising reading lately.
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Re: Rafa Review

Post by Heisen » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:58 pm

TBC wrote:
Heisen wrote:
This. Some of our fans have been ridiculous lately.
Agreed, the match day threads especially have made for surprising reading lately.
The Fulham one I understand as it was a stinking performance and Rafa or not if they play that bad they deserve to be criticised. But when people are getting apoplectic with rage because we're not demolishing teams left right and centre or start questioning Rafa's methods - methods that have us sat at the top of the table, no less - it starts to border on the ridiculous.

I generally have no clue what more people want.
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Re: Rafa Review

Post by Remember Colo » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:00 pm

I'm reticent to complain too much about our tactics and squad choice because I can't help but wonder if we'd be doing things differently if we had some other options. I've leaned heavily on the fact we've been short on technical and creative central midfielders since Cabaye departed. Shelvey has of course been player-of-the-season calibre, but besides him, Colback offers little nowadays, and Hayden has shown some promise but still has more to develop. Now if Rafa thinks that CM group is fine, then I have concerns, but I suspect he knows we'll need to improve that area for next season, and I'm curious if with different options he'd be more flexible in our setup and tactics. I think I'd like him to take a few more opportunities to experiment, but it's getting the job done this season, and perhaps he's choosing to be extra pragmatic.

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Re: Rafa Review

Post by overseasTOON » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:00 pm

Heisen wrote:
TBC wrote:
Agreed, the match day threads especially have made for surprising reading lately.
The Fulham one I understand as it was a stinking performance and Rafa or not if they play that bad they deserve to be criticised. But when people are getting apoplectic with rage because we're not demolishing teams left right and centre or start questioning Rafa's methods - methods that have us sat at the top of the table, no less - it starts to border on the ridiculous.

I generally have no clue what more people want.
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Re: Rafa Review

Post by Colly » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:09 pm

Heisen wrote:
TBC wrote:
Agreed, the match day threads especially have made for surprising reading lately.
The Fulham one I understand as it was a stinking performance and Rafa or not if they play that bad they deserve to be criticised. But when people are getting apoplectic with rage because we're not demolishing teams left right and centre or start questioning Rafa's methods - methods that have us sat at the top of the table, no less - it starts to border on the ridiculous.

I generally have no clue what more people want.
I'm not in any calling for his head, but I find this idea that he's immune to criticism baffling. How come we're allowed to slate Colback despite being top of the league but we aren't allowed to question Rafa after yet another poor home performance?

Yes we're top of the league, and yes we could easily be doing a Leeds or similar, but that doesn't mean that Rafa is some all conquering super manager. With his pedigree and the value of this squad we should absolutely be where we are, Chris Hughton did the same with far less. Ask any match going home fan (barring the few who are still wanking over the fact he's managing us) and they'll tell you the same, we don't play well at home. We don't start well, we keep possession too deep, and we don't react to going behind. We had late goals to save us against Norwich and Bristol, without those our home record is midtable. With them it's not in the playoffs. I think fans can be excused a whinge when they pay so much to watch us play badly against pretty poor opposition.

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Re: Rafa Review

Post by Don Sholeone » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:29 pm

Colly wrote:
Heisen wrote:
The Fulham one I understand as it was a stinking performance and Rafa or not if they play that bad they deserve to be criticised. But when people are getting apoplectic with rage because we're not demolishing teams left right and centre or start questioning Rafa's methods - methods that have us sat at the top of the table, no less - it starts to border on the ridiculous.

I generally have no clue what more people want.
I'm not in any calling for his head, but I find this idea that he's immune to criticism baffling. How come we're allowed to slate Colback despite being top of the league but we aren't allowed to question Rafa after yet another poor home performance?

Yes we're top of the league, and yes we could easily be doing a Leeds or similar, but that doesn't mean that Rafa is some all conquering super manager. With his pedigree and the value of this squad we should absolutely be where we are, Chris Hughton did the same with far less. Ask any match going home fan (barring the few who are still wanking over the fact he's managing us) and they'll tell you the same, we don't play well at home. We don't start well, we keep possession too deep, and we don't react to going behind. We had late goals to save us against Norwich and Bristol, without those our home record is midtable. With them it's not in the playoffs. I think fans can be excused a whinge when they pay so much to watch us play badly against pretty poor opposition.
He's not immune from criticism, but there is a difference about what's happening here, people are actually starting to question his ability as a manager because we have had some poor home form, that's whats ridiculous about the whole thing, i suppose Klopp isn't any good, look what happened at Dortmund, same with Pep at man city, mourinho at chelsea, football isn't a case of a good manager and good players equals instant destruction of all opposition.

Also the value of the squad means jack all, is Sissoko putting in £30m performances at Tottenham? We are a championship team with a lot of championship level players.

As for hughton he wasn't managing nufc in 2017 in this situation so you cannot compare, look at what's happened to Ranieri, there are no precedents in football.

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Re: Rafa Review

Post by Colly » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:43 pm

Hang on, so because circumstances aren't identical nothing in football can be compared to anything else? That pretty much renders this forum mute.

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Re: Rafa Review

Post by overseasTOON » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:51 pm

Don Sholeone wrote:
Colly wrote:
I'm not in any calling for his head, but I find this idea that he's immune to criticism baffling. How come we're allowed to slate Colback despite being top of the league but we aren't allowed to question Rafa after yet another poor home performance?

Yes we're top of the league, and yes we could easily be doing a Leeds or similar, but that doesn't mean that Rafa is some all conquering super manager. With his pedigree and the value of this squad we should absolutely be where we are, Chris Hughton did the same with far less. Ask any match going home fan (barring the few who are still wanking over the fact he's managing us) and they'll tell you the same, we don't play well at home. We don't start well, we keep possession too deep, and we don't react to going behind. We had late goals to save us against Norwich and Bristol, without those our home record is midtable. With them it's not in the playoffs. I think fans can be excused a whinge when they pay so much to watch us play badly against pretty poor opposition.
He's not immune from criticism, but there is a difference about what's happening here, people are actually starting to question his ability as a manager because we have had some poor home form, that's whats ridiculous about the whole thing, i suppose Klopp isn't any good, look what happened at Dortmund, same with Pep at man city, mourinho at chelsea, football isn't a case of a good manager and good players equals instant destruction of all opposition.

Also the value of the squad means jack all, is Sissoko putting in £30m performances at Tottenham? We are a championship team with a lot of championship level players.

As for hughton he wasn't managing nufc in 2017 in this situation so you cannot compare, look at what's happened to Ranieri, there are no precedents in football.
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Re: Rafa Review

Post by Mifune » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:41 pm

Imagine being a Championship team and complaining about having a manager of Benitez's quality...

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Re: Rafa Review

Post by Ramone » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:09 pm

Mifune wrote:Imagine being a Championship team and complaining about having a manager of Benitez's quality...
This.

People have extremely short memories if they don't think we're in a far better situation now than we were in 12 months ago.
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Re: Rafa Review

Post by bodacious benny » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:28 pm

I'm pretty content with how we're doing this season. I'd have taken this position with 8 games to go if i was offered it back in august.

We were never going to walk this league. There are some good teams in it and some damn dogged teams too. The majority of our team are top end Championship or lower end PL quality so the points we have so far is about right.

Some of it could have been prettier, but just ask Brighton over the last couple of seasons: pretty football isn't always what you need.
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Re: Rafa Review

Post by Colly » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:31 pm

Mifune wrote:Imagine being a Championship team and complaining about having a manager of Benitez's quality...
Imagine not being able to suggest we were tactically poor after a 3-1 defeat at home because the manager has a pedigree...

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