Which series to watch

Which to watch if you can only watch one??

Breaking Bad
10
56%
The Walking Dead
0
No votes
The Wire
8
44%
None, they are all s***!
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 18

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skalpel
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Re: Which series to watch

Post by skalpel » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:25 pm

Mifune wrote:I think we are at crossed purposes here.

In The Wire different aspects of society are looked at. Throughout a season certain social structures are examined through characters eg. with Frank it is moral integrity and corruption. So the characters are used to explore it, rather than drive what the show talks about themselves.

Morality is a theme in Mad Men too but it is used to look at a character rather than like in the wire where characters are used to look at morality as a story.

Obviously this isn't binary and there are parts of both in most TV shows. Just taking about the overall structure of the shows.
Yeah, it's not binary. A character can be used to explore themes at the exact same time that those themes are exploring the character. I mean, I could just as well say that Tony Soprano was constructed in order to explore themes of sociopathy and megalomania in conflict with the necessarily calm and stable family man persona. The classic juggle of family life with power. It would no less reduce his centrality to the progress of the story.

I know what you're getting at. Taken as a whole, there is more plot to the Wire than the Sopranos, or at least plotlines that actually resolve themselves. But (putting aside the fact that I actually consider this a flaw of the Sopranos rather than a strength - imo it was almost Lost-esque in its willingness to open plotlines without any idea of how to end them) that doesn't mean that is necessarily the plot that drives the story.

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asbo
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Re: Which series to watch

Post by asbo » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:57 pm

skalpel wrote:I know what you're getting at. Taken as a whole, there is more plot to the Wire than the Sopranos, or at least plotlines that actually resolve themselves. But (putting aside the fact that I actually consider this a flaw of the Sopranos rather than a strength - imo it was almost Lost-esque in its willingness to open plotlines without any idea of how to end them) that doesn't mean that is necessarily the plot that drives the story.
Never seen anyone mention this before but it's the reason I stopped watching The Sopranos early into season 2; the first season had been building brilliantly with the intensifying feud between Tony and Junior and should have ended with one of them killing the other; the way they just put it all behind them after Junior's attempts to murder Tony was disappointing and ridiculously implausible to me. Apart from the first episode (which I thought was superb) that storyline was the only part of the show I'd found interesting and it ruined the show to see it "resolved" the way it was.

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Duke
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Re: Which series to watch

Post by Duke » Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:15 pm

asbo wrote:
skalpel wrote:I know what you're getting at. Taken as a whole, there is more plot to the Wire than the Sopranos, or at least plotlines that actually resolve themselves. But (putting aside the fact that I actually consider this a flaw of the Sopranos rather than a strength - imo it was almost Lost-esque in its willingness to open plotlines without any idea of how to end them) that doesn't mean that is necessarily the plot that drives the story.
Never seen anyone mention this before but it's the reason I stopped watching The Sopranos early into season 2; the first season had been building brilliantly with the intensifying feud between Tony and Junior and should have ended with one of them killing the other; the way they just put it all behind them after Junior's attempts to murder Tony was disappointing and ridiculously implausible to me. Apart from the first episode (which I thought was superb) that storyline was the only part of the show I'd found interesting and it ruined the show to see it "resolved" the way it was.
Made it to Season 4 of Sopranos and realised I was just forcing myself to watch it hoping I would start enjoying it. Gandolfini is amazing but I don't get the hype behind the show
I dunno

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Mifune
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Re: Which series to watch

Post by Mifune » Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:17 pm

skalpel wrote:
Mifune wrote:I think we are at crossed purposes here.

In The Wire different aspects of society are looked at. Throughout a season certain social structures are examined through characters eg. with Frank it is moral integrity and corruption. So the characters are used to explore it, rather than drive what the show talks about themselves.

Morality is a theme in Mad Men too but it is used to look at a character rather than like in the wire where characters are used to look at morality as a story.

Obviously this isn't binary and there are parts of both in most TV shows. Just taking about the overall structure of the shows.
Yeah, it's not binary. A character can be used to explore themes at the exact same time that those themes are exploring the character. I mean, I could just as well say that Tony Soprano was constructed in order to explore themes of sociopathy and megalomania in conflict with the necessarily calm and stable family man persona. The classic juggle of family life with power. It would no less reduce his centrality to the progress of the story.

I know what you're getting at. Taken as a whole, there is more plot to the Wire than the Sopranos, or at least plotlines that actually resolve themselves. But (putting aside the fact that I actually consider this a flaw of the Sopranos rather than a strength - imo it was almost Lost-esque in its willingness to open plotlines without any idea of how to end them) that doesn't mean that is necessarily the plot that drives the story.
Like I said I'm only talking about the overall basic structure of the show. The overall basic structure of The Wire to me is that each season is about some sort of aspect about society and they use characters to examine that. While in shows like sopranos and mad men it is basically "I wonder what is going to happen with x character this season." I get your point that you could say Tony soprano was created to just explore themes, and is some regards that's true. But I think the difference is that what happens with him as a character is more important that what happens with the plot.

I think lost and sopranos is an unfair comparison. In lost they kept writing themselves in corners and had to write even more unexplainable things to try and get out of them. In sopranos they just left some story lines open which I didn't really mind because that's the same with life.

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Mifune
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Re: Which series to watch

Post by Mifune » Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:32 pm

asbo wrote:
skalpel wrote:I know what you're getting at. Taken as a whole, there is more plot to the Wire than the Sopranos, or at least plotlines that actually resolve themselves. But (putting aside the fact that I actually consider this a flaw of the Sopranos rather than a strength - imo it was almost Lost-esque in its willingness to open plotlines without any idea of how to end them) that doesn't mean that is necessarily the plot that drives the story.
Never seen anyone mention this before but it's the reason I stopped watching The Sopranos early into season 2; the first season had been building brilliantly with the intensifying feud between Tony and Junior and should have ended with one of them killing the other; the way they just put it all behind them after Junior's attempts to murder Tony was disappointing and ridiculously implausible to me. Apart from the first episode (which I thought was superb) that storyline was the only part of the show I'd found interesting and it ruined the show to see it "resolved" the way it was.
Tony didn't put it behind him after junior tried to kill him. He tried to kill junior but junior got arrested before he could.

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Re: Which series to watch

Post by beardface » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:16 pm

Duke wrote:
asbo wrote:
Never seen anyone mention this before but it's the reason I stopped watching The Sopranos early into season 2; the first season had been building brilliantly with the intensifying feud between Tony and Junior and should have ended with one of them killing the other; the way they just put it all behind them after Junior's attempts to murder Tony was disappointing and ridiculously implausible to me. Apart from the first episode (which I thought was superb) that storyline was the only part of the show I'd found interesting and it ruined the show to see it "resolved" the way it was.
Made it to Season 4 of Sopranos and realised I was just forcing myself to watch it hoping I would start enjoying it. Gandolfini is amazing but I don't get the hype behind the show
That's what I did with The Wire <erk>.

Edit: Looks like I posted about it previously. AG wasn't such a fan back in 2014 <whistle>

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Re: Which series to watch

Post by asbo » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:05 pm

beardface wrote:
Duke wrote:
Made it to Season 4 of Sopranos and realised I was just forcing myself to watch it hoping I would start enjoying it. Gandolfini is amazing but I don't get the hype behind the show
That's what I did with The Wire <erk>.

Edit: Looks like I posted about it previously. AG wasn't such a fan back in 2014 <whistle>

I did acknowledge that when I wrote about it <gent>:
asbo wrote:Breaking Bad would be my recommendation but The Wire is by far the greatest TV show ever made and always will be, but it's kind of esoteric and (and I don't care how conceited this is) simply above those who criticise it. I wouldn't recommend it because I think many people would start watching, deem it boring and choose to watch something else instead, I did the first two times I attempted to watch it. Most of what I've watched since The Wire I find almost patronisingly simple compared to it

Edit: I voted for The Wire because the poll question was slightly different to thread subject. <roll>
If I'm reading a novel and get through a couple of pages and nothing registers because my mind is on other things then I flick back to where I started, put the book down and pick it up again another day, and perhaps watch a TV show instead. TV generally is something you can just sit in front of and let happen to you, whereas a novel requires a more focussed involvement by the reader. The Wire is more like a novel than a TV show; much of the dialogue isn't just about the characters involved, it's often telling a story and driving the plot forward with a lot of action happening offscreen, the dialogue demands the kind of attention a novel does of its audience which is why I don't generally recommend it to people. It also demands a lot of its viewers early on I feel, it doesn't really have a beginning, it just joins the action at a point in time, the dialogue is really organic, there's a lot of characters and open plot lines from the start and it does very little to introduce its characters. I also had a bit of a tough time understanding the hierarchy within the police force, with it focussing on two separate departments and then a special case unit consisting of members of both departments, it was difficult to establish the chain of command for someone who has no idea how police forces are generally run.

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