ToonForum - Newcastle United Forum

Posted: **Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:38 pm**

Cal wrote:
Marcel Desailly wrote:
I see

Still struggling to see why people wouldn't just continue gaming on a normal PC though. Are they going to be considerably cheaper than a PC with similar gaming performance?
They don't seem to be intended as a replacement for gaming on a normal PC, but a supplement, especially so with the streaming capabilities, or alternative, for those without a gaming PC but hesitant to build/buy a proper one. I've not tried pricing up a similar specced build or looking at the going rates for similar prebuilts, but not requiring a Windows license is at least one cost saved.

Tirer le Ryan Oison Une wrote:
I thought they would be, but judging by the ones Cal posted, not really.
I still can't get my head around who will buy these, a PC specialised for playing games in the living room? Surely this is exactly what a console is anyway. Most PC gamers will have their rigs set up, and console gamers will stick to their favoured platform. I can't imagine many people are willing to drop $1000 on a PC just to play games in the living room.
The only thing that interests me is the controller, for use with my current PC set up. In the office.
I can't think of a worse way to play games like FM and other micromanagement games than on a sofa 10 feet from the screen. It's like when they release The Sims on consoles. The controls were fine, but the games just didn't work on a console environment.
The main advantage over consoles, that I can see, is that you have access to the entire Steam library, whatever you own on there, and cheaper games with better graphics and/or performance depending on spec. It seems to have struck a chord with gamers that have a family/kids that don't want to be out of the way in the home office to play their PC games, but I can't speak to that myself.

The controller does seem interesting and surprisingly capable, but yeah it won't usurp the mouse & keyboard for certain types of games. Similar to the Steam Machines it does seems to offer a nice middle-ground between existing controllers and the mouse & keyboard though, potentially enough to make more games bearable from the couch.

Yeah I can understand that it will come with a huge amount of "exclusives" but I'm just not sure that many people will see the initial costs as being worth saving ~£10 on new multiplatforms when they come out.
I'm sure that for the people who can afford, and want, one it will be great, but I just can't see that many people giving up traditional consoles for this, or replacing their current gaming PC.
Maybe some of the lower spec ones will be the best sellers. People who are less familiar with PC spec might see them as a alternative to traditional PCs, whereas people who are more clued up will probably build their own.

Posted: **Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:42 pm**

Regarding exclusives, I couldn't care about Half Life games but they should still be available on consoles and normal PC. If a series is multi platform it's unfair on the fans to make it exclusive.
Feel Steam will make them PC and Steam Box, with the latter getting it early to force people onto it. I mean initially Steam got a foothold because they forced Half Life players to get it

Posted: **Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:02 pm**

Cisse's Overheating Torso wrote:Regarding exclusives, I couldn't care about Half Life games but they should still be available on consoles and normal PC. If a series is multi platform it's unfair on the fans to make it exclusive.
Feel Steam will make them PC and Steam Box, with the latter getting it early to force people onto it. I mean initially Steam got a foothold because they forced Half Life players to get it

How would they differentiate between people who have Steam, or even Steam OS installed vs people who have bought a SteamBox PC?
Plenty of franchises in the past have switched exclusivity, so Valve may well only release Half-life with recommended specs similar to the SteamBox PCs, at least before consoles if not exclusively on PCs. This is the only way I can see them driving SteamBox PC sales with a game.

Posted: **Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:07 pm**

Tirer le Ryan Oison Une wrote:
Cisse's Overheating Torso wrote:Regarding exclusives, I couldn't care about Half Life games but they should still be available on consoles and normal PC. If a series is multi platform it's unfair on the fans to make it exclusive.
Feel Steam will make them PC and Steam Box, with the latter getting it early to force people onto it. I mean initially Steam got a foothold because they forced Half Life players to get it
How would they differentiate between people who have Steam, or even Steam OS installed vs people who have bought a SteamBox PC?
Plenty of franchises in the past have switched exclusivity, so Valve may well only release Half-life with recommended specs similar to the SteamBox PCs, at least before consoles if not exclusively on PCs. This is the only way I can see them driving SteamBox PC sales with a game.

How? Only have a version that builds on that linux distro, or codes for SteamOS users. Franchises in the past have done that, I'm just saying I think it's bad form.
I agree most likely is that it won't come out on consoles for a while*, but I think it probably should eventually

* a while after the PC version I mean. The PC version could also be a while, I think Gabe wants to announce it on his deathbed

Posted: **Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:08 pm**

Tirer le Ryan Oison Une wrote:
Cal wrote:The main advantage over consoles, that I can see, is that you have access to the entire Steam library, whatever you own on there, and cheaper games with better graphics and/or performance depending on spec. It seems to have struck a chord with gamers that have a family/kids that don't want to be out of the way in the home office to play their PC games, but I can't speak to that myself.

The controller does seem interesting and surprisingly capable, but yeah it won't usurp the mouse & keyboard for certain types of games. Similar to the Steam Machines it does seems to offer a nice middle-ground between existing controllers and the mouse & keyboard though, potentially enough to make more games bearable from the couch.
Yeah I can understand that it will come with a huge amount of "exclusives" but I'm just not sure that many people will see the initial costs as being worth saving ~£10 on new multiplatforms when they come out.
I'm sure that for the people who can afford, and want, one it will be great, but I just can't see that many people giving up traditional consoles for this, or replacing their current gaming PC.
Maybe some of the lower spec ones will be the best sellers. People who are less familiar with PC spec might see them as a alternative to traditional PCs, whereas people who are more clued up will probably build their own.

Yeah these definitely seem a luxury at the moment and not an immediate console competitor, but give things a few years for the latest consoles' equivalent performing hardware to go cheap and if these get a bit of... steam... behind them then I could see them going mass market and stealing sales from consoles. Right now the entry level steam boxes are pretty lacklustre specs wise and likely won't play the latest games to the standard of the console versions.

I've quickly thrown together an equivalent mini-ITX build to the $499 iBuyPower SBX and it came to $486 (excluding the Pi controlling the lights...), so at least they seem competitive on price.

Cisse's Overheating Torso wrote:Regarding exclusives, I couldn't care about Half Life games but they should still be available on consoles and normal PC. If a series is multi platform it's unfair on the fans to make it exclusive.
Feel Steam will make them PC and Steam Box, with the latter getting it early to force people onto it. I mean initially Steam got a foothold because they forced Half Life players to get it

I would definitely expect Left 4 Dead 3 and Half Life 3 to have some kind of SteamOS tie-in stuff going on, and probably some Steam Box bundles. Whether the console ports are day and date likely depends on whether Source 2 is being built for multiple platforms from the off, but I wouldn't put it past them to make sure PC gets a sizeable exclusivity window even if they could release on all at once.

Posted: **Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:08 pm**

Cisse's Overheating Torso wrote:
Nick wrote: On a side note:

"Of course, PC gaming never runs that smoothly, there's always patches needed for your graphics and bugs in your games." - As if console games dont have the exact same problems? I ve always preferred PC games for this just down to the amount of different people who can create mods for games and fix problems. Or add entire new content for free.
Yes, consoles have issues to, but user never have to think to solve them. Consoles only have one chipset, so there is one solution that comes from the server (usually automatically).
PC you have to know the lingo in order to google the problem well (which can be a big barrier), find a solution, fiddle with settings deep in your computer. I'm pretty techy but sometimes it's a headache. The things you mention (free patches etc) are massive benefits but I think consoles hardware's main advantage is that it's easy with a low technical bar to entry.

I think we're talking about entirely different things here then... Im tlaking about games, you seem to be moving to more hardware problems. Ive certainly never had to google problems in my games and find my own solutions to fix them. If theres problems with games, Rome Total War 2 for example, the company fixes them in free patches. In addition, communities make their own improvements and extra contents here and there which means PC games always last far, far longer than console versions. Hardware problems i get you, but thats because consoles are always behind times though...

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:39 pm**

Unfortunately Nick I have had these issues with games, not just with hardware. And even the hardware issues are kinda relevant, if your hardware isn't working or needs complicated setup then you can't play the games.
Consoles (sometimes badly) handle all this for you

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:42 pm**

Why don't they rust?

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:25 pm**

Teas Over Soon wrote:Why don't they rust?

They don't contain iron

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:10 pm**

Cisse's Overheating Torso wrote:Unfortunately Nick I have had these issues with games, not just with hardware. And even the hardware issues are kinda relevant, if your hardware isn't working or needs complicated setup then you can't play the games.
Consoles (sometimes badly) handle all this for you

I still think this making a big point out of nothing really though. Unless you yourself start fiddling around with things that you shouldnt, unless you know what youre doing, i dont see why there would be problems. Why would your hardware need a complicated set up to play a particular game?

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:37 pm**

Part of the point of the Steam Machines thing seems to be to lower the barrier of entry for PC gaming. You get a pre-configured machine with an OS similar to that of a console, in that it boots straight to the library and has limited functionality outside of that, although some will dual-boot with a proper OS too. I'm not sure if all of them do this, but there's a focus of ease of upgrading and modularity, although PCs are easy to upgrade anyway I guess the form factor and lack of wires everywhere makes it seem a bit less intimidating for a first timer.

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:17 pm**

Nick wrote:
Cisse's Overheating Torso wrote:Unfortunately Nick I have had these issues with games, not just with hardware. And even the hardware issues are kinda relevant, if your hardware isn't working or needs complicated setup then you can't play the games.
Consoles (sometimes badly) handle all this for you
I still think this making a big point out of nothing really though. Unless you yourself start fiddling around with things that you shouldnt, unless you know what youre doing, i dont see why there would be problems. Why would your hardware need a complicated set up to play a particular game?

I meant the initial setup of the PC. I've got mates who don't PC game because it's all too much (deciding what PC to buy, minumum requirements). It's more the perception of difficulty relative to plug in and play. It's easy to dismiss these worries if you are techy but to many people it's a mountain.

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:00 pm**

I suppose so... but thats just basic stuff. Im not techy at all when it comes to the insides of a PC. If you buy a PC capable of gaming though there really isnt anything special you need to do, that probably is a perception problem. The only other ones come when you then decide you want to upgrade bits and pieces to get the best out of your machine and make the games look and play even better. But then i still see that as a positive for PCs... at least you have that option instead of buying a 'next gen' machine thats made out of inferior parts.

Thats seems so Cal. Although its an expensive way to just break a barrier. Even for the cheaper versions.

Posted: **Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:55 pm**

I agree with you nick, pc going is better in almost every way, I'm a new convert, but some people will never try

Posted: **Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:48 pm**

I usually only use mine for games like Age of Empires, Total War and MMOs. Games i couldnt imagine playing on console. Consoles do feel better for other games though.

However, ive only just (because of Steam sales!) bought Dishonored for the PC. How can you turn down £3? I didnt realise how easy and normal it is to play using an xbox controller on a PC! I think ill be getting a lot more on there now that id usually get on console. Cheaper games, better graphics for me, near instant loading times... At some point ill finally get used to using a mouse and keyboard for FPS games. I know its better... im just so used to analog sticks.

Posted: **Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:24 am**

Valve rounded up a load of game developers for their "Steam Dev Days" event and have been preaching Steam Machines, Steam Controllers, Steam Workshop, VR, Linux/SteamOS and OpenGL at them. They also gave all attendees the latest version of the Steam Controller (no more touch screen/quadrant, new button placement) and they and/or Gigabyte gave away 2000 Steam Machines at the event.

[tweet][/tweet]

Seems like a good way to drum up more interest on the dev side of things for pretty much anything relevant to Steam Machines.

Also Gabe is on Reddit answering questions in return for raising charity money, this seems relevant.

"What part is proprietary? We're trying to make it as open as possible. If EA wants to put Origin on it, that would be fine, etc... (trying to pick an example of something that people think we would prohibit)."
http://www.reddit.com/r/motorsports/com ... cc/ceqmaeq" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted: **Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:03 pm**

How many people are realisticaly going to dump their Xbones and PS4s after such a short time when this comes out though? It would need a pretty big migration.

Posted: **Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:28 pm**

Nick wrote:How many people are realisticaly going to dump their Xbones and PS4s after such a short time when this comes out though? It would need a pretty big migration.

Good point. If it had coincided with their launch could be competition. But anyone who has already bought a next-gen console will be a hard sell now.
I'm guessing hardcore Pc gamer and/or linux types will go for it, but won't 'convert' many

Posted: **Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:56 pm**

Cisse's Overheating Torso wrote:
Nick wrote:How many people are realisticaly going to dump their Xbones and PS4s after such a short time when this comes out though? It would need a pretty big migration.
Good point. If it had coincided with their launch could be competition. But anyone who has already bought a next-gen console will be a hard sell now.
I'm guessing hardcore Pc gamer and/or linux types will go for it, but won't 'convert' many

Most hardcore PC enthusiasts will have built their own, or already have a decent PC they can upgrade.

Posted: **Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:59 pm**

Tirer le Ryan Oison Uneski wrote:
Cisse's Overheating Torso wrote:
Good point. If it had coincided with their launch could be competition. But anyone who has already bought a next-gen console will be a hard sell now.
I'm guessing hardcore Pc gamer and/or linux types will go for it, but won't 'convert' many
Most hardcore PC enthusiasts will have built their own, or already have a decent PC they can upgrade.

But they are early adopters/will get one just to pay with. Like all my mates who got a rasberry pi or three even though they have many devices that can do it. Because it was new, cool and by Valve they will get one

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