Armed self defence

[East Stand]

You see it very often in Great Britain somebody gets sentenced to prison for engaging in combat and coming out as the winning party when there house is being burgled or attacked by a youth in trackies when they gain advantage of a weapon.

If someone burgles your house, and you use excessive force to kill the attacker on purpose, for example: a burglar enters your property bare handed and you defend with a kitchen knife

...should you

a. Walk away scot free? - Therefore allowing a 'stand your ground' law
b. Do time for your criminal act set by the justice system? - Therefore allowing the current law to stand.

Opinions and discuss please.

[Smudger]

If someone breaks into your house then there shouldnt be any reason to level the playing field. I wouldnt think twice about using a weapon if that happened.

[Minty Fresh]

I too wouldn't hesitate to use a weapon if somebody broke into my house, but every case is different really, and things aren't always black and white.

[Smudger]

I too wouldn't hesitate to use a weapon if somebody broke into my house, but every case is different really, and things aren't always black and white.

Can you produce an example? I cant think of a scenario where I'd change my mind on this.

[skalpel]

It's certainly a case by case thing. A lot of people believe anything is instant fair game as soon as somebody has broken into your house, but I'm not so sure. If some totally desperate moron who wouldn't really hurt a fly broke in to try get a TV or VCR and then, when disturbed by the owner holding a knife, s*** himself, dropped everything, raised his hands and backed away towards the door - I think it's pretty harsh of the owner to just start slashing away while the guy makes his way out empty handed. But then if some lunatic comes in and looks ready to attack you in your own home, then what the hell else can the owner do but defend himself by whatever means is necessary?

On what I'd do in such a situation myself though, it depends. If somebody broke into my home unarmed and backed away empty handed to try get out of there, I'm not the sort of person who would run after them and stab them to death before the made it to the door, I'd certainly make damn sure they backed right the hell out and then call the police immediately with a full description and the direction they headed in. If they didn't back away though, or if they directly threatened me or my girlfriend (though you could say breaking in is a threat to begin with - I mean an actual direct threat or attack attempt), then yeah I wouldn't need to think twice and would do whatever it took.

It's hard to say though, I've never been broken into so couldn't be 100% sure what I'd do.

[Minty Fresh]

I too wouldn't hesitate to use a weapon if somebody broke into my house, but every case is different really, and things aren't always black and white.

Can you produce an example? I cant think of a scenario where I'd change my mind on this.

Basically what Skalps said

[Smudger]

I see your point, but the point remains that he's broken into your home with intent to rob you. Just because he has second thoughts doesnt change much. Obviously I wouldnt murder the guy, but use of a weapon is probably the entire reason he's backed off.

[Minty Fresh]

I see your point, but the point remains that he's broken into your home with intent to rob you. Just because he has second thoughts doesnt change much. Obviously I wouldnt murder the guy, but use of a weapon is probably the entire reason he's backed off.

Do you mean you'd grab a weapon just to scare them off? Or you'd use it to harm them even if they posed no real threat?

[Lidl]

There's no problem with using a weapon to intimidate them but if you cold bloodedly kill them when they haven't actually attacked you directly then you deserve to be punished.

Essentially just what Skalps said

[Smudger]

I see your point, but the point remains that he's broken into your home with intent to rob you. Just because he has second thoughts doesnt change much. Obviously I wouldnt murder the guy, but use of a weapon is probably the entire reason he's backed off.

Do you mean you'd grab a weapon just to scare them off? Or you'd use it to harm them even if they posed no real threat?

If they were of no threat, and I was sure of it, then no I wouldnt hurt them.

[beardface]

By entering your house, they pose a threat. If they see you with a weapon and try to run away, whats to say they won't come back armed the next day/night?

If someone enters my house I'm grabbing the baseball bat or a knife. Simple as.

[Obertans Magic Head]

i wouldn't wait for them to see me to find out if they were a threat or not because if they were they'd probably kill me. i'd just creep up on them and hit them around the head with something heavy. They have no right to break into someone's house, once they do theres a change they could attack you, i don't see why you should wait to see if they will run away or kill before you act.

[asbo]

As soon as they cross the threshold to your property, they become your property.

I wouldn't give them a chance to back away myself. I'd attack straight away. You hear some horrific armed burglary stories, I saw one on Crimewatch once where they burned the couple who lived there with an iron trying to get them to tell them where the safe was, even though they didn't have a safe. I'm not prepared to risk that happening to me or my family on the off-chance I could kill some gentleman thief who doesn't want to hurt anyone. They've created the situation themselves, if they get killed it's their fault.

[Yacob]

I wouldn't hesitate to use a weapon to attack someone if they entered my house without permission. If they were unarmed I'd still attack them and then get the cops involved keeping them inside the house, I'm not sure if I would kill someone, it depends how threatening they were

[L-T-F]

If someone broke into my house, I would have to use a weapon (anything I could lay my hands on) to defend myself, I'm not the biggest build, my size and gender would go against me.
Never had a fight in my life, but would feel even more inclined to fight if my kids were in the house.

[Donkey Toon]

It's certainly a case by case thing. A lot of people believe anything is instant fair game as soon as somebody has broken into your house, but I'm not so sure. If some totally desperate moron who wouldn't really hurt a fly broke in to try get a TV or VCR and then, when disturbed by the owner holding a knife, s*** himself, dropped everything, raised his hands and backed away towards the door - I think it's pretty harsh of the owner to just start slashing away while the guy makes his way out empty handed. But then if some lunatic comes in and looks ready to attack you in your own home, then what the hell else can the owner do but defend himself by whatever means is necessary?

On what I'd do in such a situation myself though, it depends. If somebody broke into my home unarmed and backed away empty handed to try get out of there, I'm not the sort of person who would run after them and stab them to death before the made it to the door, I'd certainly make damn sure they backed right the hell out and then call the police immediately with a full description and the direction they headed in. If they didn't back away though, or if they directly threatened me or my girlfriend (though you could say breaking in is a threat to begin with - I mean an actual direct threat or attack attempt), then yeah I wouldn't need to think twice and would do whatever it took.

It's hard to say though, I've never been broken into so couldn't be 100% sure what I'd do.

In my opinion we have to go with option B, keep it as it stands with criminal consequences to be answered for on a case by case basis. Skalpel and LTF sum it up very well. Invasion of your home does not give you the right to harm or kill without being held accountable as to whether your actions were within the bounds of necessity.

LTF also makes a very good point. A woman, parent or physically vulnerable person will feel greater fear and have greater cause to act very aggresively. But good luck in your defence if you are over 6 foot and built like a WWE wrestler if you take baseball bat or knife to an unarmed smaller thief.

My main point in going for option B though, is that any change in the law giving carte blanche to home owners to defend themselves against intruders would lead to an increase in armed criminals. If they can expect to be attacked without legal consequences then burglars are going to arm themselves, leading to increased danger to the true victims. The police will then also have to increasingly be armed and before you know it we are on our way to being the USA with rampant gun crime and the deaths that that brings.

IMO we are ironically safer for not being able to defend ourselves without immunity from prosecution.

[Le wilde un]

An eye for an eye has never worked, and never will.

Option B for me.

[Donkey Toon]

Just to throw something else in the mix (just incase people aren't already annoyed enough at the legal system).

As a home owner or holder of a rental agreement or lease on a property you are liable for the health and safety of any person on your property, even if they are there illegally.

That means (for example) that if the burglar were to fall down your stairs because you had lose carpet fitted and he broke his legs he could sue you. Great thing the legal system.

[biggeordiedave]

I'm enjoying the "I'd do this, I'd do that" posts when in reality we'd all soil ourselves and cry .

[Yacob]

I'm enjoying the "I'd do this, I'd do that" posts when in reality we'd all soil ourselves and cry .