Brexit

#Referendum

Poll ended at Thu Jun 23, 2016 7:10 pm

#Brexit
5
26%
#Bremain
14
74%
 
Total votes: 19

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Mifune
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Re: Brexit

Post by Mifune » Thu Jun 30, 2016 2:36 pm

Speedo wrote:
Mifune wrote:
Except he didn't compare Israel to ISIS at all. Pathetic from the media to try and spin that <laugh>.
He's drawing an extremely uncomfortable parallel, don't you think? Not the kind of parallel that the Labour leader should be drawing. Israel is a legitimate state - albeit with big questions surrounding its actions, but none more so than China, Saudi Arabia, South Africa etc. which we're all pally with - and he is comparing to IS! Simply put, anybody who is associated with IS is essentially endorsing terrorism; endorsing Israel - or even the idea of Israel - is a million miles away from supporting what's going on in Palestine.
He said absolutely nothing wrong. Just media trying to spin it again.
Corbyn wrote: The Jewish community has made an enormous contribution to our Party and our country – Jewish people have been at the heart of progressive and radical politics in Britain, as elsewhere, for well over a century.

“But they are also a minority amongst minorities and have had good cause to feel vulnerable and even threatened throughout history. This should never happen by accident or design in our Labour Party. Modern antisemitism may not always be about overt violence and persecution, though there is too much of that even to this day. We must also be vigilant against subtler and invidious manifestations of this nasty ancient hatred and avoid slipping into its traps by accident or intent.

“For the avoidance of doubt, I do not believe in name calling and I never have. “Zio” is a vile epithet that follows in a long line of earlier such terms that have no place in our Party. Nor should anyone indulge in the kind of stereotyping that can cause such hurt and harm.

“To assume that a Jewish friend or fellow member is wealthy, part of some kind of financial or media conspiracy, or takes a particular position on politics in general, or on Israel and Palestine in particular, is just wrong.

“Our Jewish friends are no more responsible for the actions of Israel or the Netanyahu Government than our Muslim friends are for those of various self-styled Islamic states or organisations. Nor should Muslims be regarded as sexist, antisemitic or otherwise suspect, as has become an ugly Islamophobic norm. We judge people on their individual values and actions, not en masse.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Colback's Orange Tufts » Thu Jun 30, 2016 2:38 pm

Mifune wrote: He said absolutely nothing wrong. Just media trying to spin it again.
Corbyn wrote:
“Our Jewish friends are no more responsible for the actions of Israel or the Netanyahu Government than our Muslim friends are for those of various self-styled Islamic states or organisations. Nor should Muslims be regarded as sexist, antisemitic or otherwise suspect, as has become an ugly Islamophobic norm. We judge people on their individual values and actions, not en masse.
Will you at least admit saying 'self-styled islamic states' is a poor choice of words that is easily confused with IS/ISIS? Surely just say Muslim countries (and avoid the whole subject of Islamism vs political Islam)
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Mifune
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Re: Brexit

Post by Mifune » Thu Jun 30, 2016 2:43 pm

However you want to phrase it he is still not comparing Israel to it though.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Colback's Orange Tufts » Thu Jun 30, 2016 2:45 pm

Mifune wrote:However you want to phrase it he is still not comparing Israel to it though.
It speaks to the lack of competence and leadership the PLP are going on about though

As for not defending one of his own Jewish MPs when a momentum activist accusers her of being involved in a 'media conspiracy'. It's a classic anti-semite meme, happening right in front of him but he did nothing. Cowardly. Kinder politics much?
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Re: Brexit

Post by Mifune » Thu Jun 30, 2016 2:55 pm

I fail to see how. He was talking about Jewish people being stereotyped and used an example for comparison of Muslims being stereotyped as being part of isis. No sane person would find anything wrong with that.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Perch's First Touch » Thu Jun 30, 2016 2:57 pm

[tweet][/tweet]

<laugh>
formerly known as Bigi Bigi Bigi Can't You See & IMTE

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Re: Brexit

Post by Colback's Orange Tufts » Thu Jun 30, 2016 2:58 pm

Mifune wrote:I fail to see how. He was talking about Jewish people being stereotyped and used an example for comparison of Muslims being stereotyped as being part of isis. No sane person would find anything wrong with that.
"the Islamic State" (he didn't mean to say as this is ISIS) sounds like "Islamic states" (meant to say) so people attending (without official transcript yet) can easily mishear. It's shoddy as hell from a PR perspective, does no-one check his speeches?

theres one letter difference, that's what I mean
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Re: Brexit

Post by Mifune » Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:10 pm

Cisse's Overheating Torso wrote:
Mifune wrote:I fail to see how. He was talking about Jewish people being stereotyped and used an example for comparison of Muslims being stereotyped as being part of isis. No sane person would find anything wrong with that.
"the Islamic State" (he didn't mean to say as this is ISIS) sounds like "Islamic states" (meant to say) so people attending (without official transcript yet) can easily mishear. It's shoddy as hell from a PR perspective, does no-one check his speeches?

theres one letter difference, that's what I mean
He's could've said ISIS and it still wouldn't of meant he was comparing ISIS to Israel.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Mifune » Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:19 pm

Comparison doesn't equal equivalency.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Colback's Orange Tufts » Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:31 pm

Mifune wrote:
Cisse's Overheating Torso wrote:
"the Islamic State" (he didn't mean to say as this is ISIS) sounds like "Islamic states" (meant to say) so people attending (without official transcript yet) can easily mishear. It's shoddy as hell from a PR perspective, does no-one check his speeches?

theres one letter difference, that's what I mean
He's could've said ISIS and it still wouldn't of meant he was comparing ISIS to Israel.
Mifune wrote:Comparison doesn't equal equivalency.
Is it a comparison or not, these two posts seem contradictory?
I see what you mean and indeed I see what Corybn was trying to do/say. But it's a poor use of a similie. A is to B what C is to D, will always provoke people to suggest B and D are similar (it is after all a simile).

Furthermore, he's been accused of never criticizing anti-semitism alone, having to mention Palestine or blanket all racism is bad. and he has a history of sharing platforms with actual antisemites (Hamas/Hezbollah have been called "friends"). He should have stuck to just saying there is a report out, anti semitism is bad. Otherwise is reinforced the ideas people have about him.
There's value is being careful what you say, making sure people can't infer things (correctly or not) from it. It's necessary to do this to be effective as a politician. He/his team are very poor at this, the 'police should never shoot' incident is a key example
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Re: Brexit

Post by Colback's Orange Tufts » Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:38 pm

[tweet][/tweet]

Well that...er... clarifies it?
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Re: Brexit

Post by skalpel » Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:44 pm

Cisse's Overheating Torso wrote:[tweet][/tweet]

Well that...er... clarifies it?
He clarified it thus? The original comment was a total banality, a dull example of the sort of media leaping on the slightest s*** at a time when Corbyn is under intense scrutiny. But if he has just clarified it by sticking in an organisation he called his "friend" in a list with ISIS and Al Qaeda, that actually is pretty funny <awe>.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Colback's Orange Tufts » Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:44 pm

Literally can't write his name his own name:
[tweet][/tweet]

Edit: I can't spell either
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Re: Brexit

Post by El Magdia » Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:59 pm

They better make a special Thick of It episode out of all this <awe>
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Re: Brexit

Post by El Magdia » Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:02 pm

Mifune wrote:I fail to see how. He was talking about Jewish people being stereotyped and used an example for comparison of Muslims being stereotyped as being part of isis. No sane person would find anything wrong with that.
Yes but not everybody in this country is sane so it was a f***ing daft comparison to make. Anything that can be seized upon will be so he should have steered well clear of making the comparison however well meaning it was.
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Re: Brexit

Post by skalpel » Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:09 pm

The Angry Badger. wrote:They better make a special Thick of It episode out of all this <awe>
Corbyn so often does have a face like Dot Cotton licking piss off a nettle.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Devlin » Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:47 pm

Colback's Orange Tufts wrote:
Hamsik wrote:
Of course they'll moan <laugh> they'll just find someone else to blame.

Interestingly this could well be the end of the Conservatives as we know it. Cameron will have to resign now, he has no choice. He literally gambled the entire country's future to win one election. Impressive.
Disagree, I think they'll stay together (Conservatives are quite pragmatic as a party). Leavers have said they want Cameron to stay (Osborne less so)
Labour on the other hand, large parts of their heartlands voted against them (turnout was higher than usual). Shows they have significant issues. And many think Corbyn didn't do enough to campaign, think it could get bloody
Based on the current exchange rate against the euro, the situation is quite stable https://ex-rate.com/convert/gbp/1000-to-eur.html Therefore, there is no reason to worry. Do not panic because of the difference, which is 0.04 compared to the previous month.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Devlin » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:04 am

I have a little crooked teeth, but it suits me.

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