The Message of Awe Thread

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Re: The Message of Awe Thread

by PTAO? » Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:06 pm

Colback's Orange Tufts wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:54 pm
PTAO? wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:12 pm
Except, like VAT, higher prices hit the poorest the hardest. A proportional income/wealth tax would result in the rich subsidising the poor.

Increasing prices because capacity is too high is no excuse. We should be encouraging people to use public transport, and investing in infrastructure, not pricing out the poor.
I see your point to an extent, but commuter trains largely service affluent areas (buses for poorer ones). How distributive we tax people is another matter, I agree the rich should pay more (they already pay more as a %).

We should invest yes, but as we see with hs2 when we try and increase capacity the public complain because its expensive and because we are a nimby country. For more capacity we need new lines going through places where people live.

So in the meantime, you charge the ppl/businesses who have more income to travel on their expensive medium or long distance peak trains, and have cheap advances at other times.
If we want to help transport for the less well off, make buses better and cheaper. Tfl underground and buses are massively subsisided, doing the same for buses (and other undergrounds) throughout the country would help the poor more.
Isn't this a bit self fulfilling?
Commuter areas are inhabited by people who can't afford/don't want to live in the major city, but can still afford the high train prices.
I don't really want to get into the depths of tax distribution and buses/trains, but all I see from the graphs you linked to is that the trains are underfunded and overpriced.

Re: The Message of Awe Thread

by Bodacious Benny » Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:51 pm

Hjl wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:18 pm
You should charge 50p a liter for fuel and then just drive everywhere in massive SUVs.

Works for Americans.
<laugh>

Re: The Message of Awe Thread

by Hjl » Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:18 pm

You should charge 50p a liter for fuel and then just drive everywhere in massive SUVs.

Works for Americans.

Re: The Message of Awe Thread

by Colback's Orange Tufts » Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:57 pm

overseasTOON wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:28 pm
If it helps me to get a seat every morning; I'm OK with that.
The Corbyn VIrgin trains thing was hilarious. Virgin trains had issues, but your can't blame an operator that there is a limit to the available slots for trains at peak times.
Corbyn had to stand because too many people without a reservation wanted a busy train. What can an operator do about that? Nowt to do with privitisation

Re: The Message of Awe Thread

by Colback's Orange Tufts » Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:54 pm

PTAO? wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:12 pm
Except, like VAT, higher prices hit the poorest the hardest. A proportional income/wealth tax would result in the rich subsidising the poor.

Increasing prices because capacity is too high is no excuse. We should be encouraging people to use public transport, and investing in infrastructure, not pricing out the poor.
I see your point to an extent, but commuter trains largely service affluent areas (buses for poorer ones). How distributive we tax people is another matter, I agree the rich should pay more (they already pay more as a %).

We should invest yes, but as we see with hs2 when we try and increase capacity the public complain because its expensive and because we are a nimby country. For more capacity we need new lines going through places where people live.

So in the meantime, you charge the ppl/businesses who have more income to travel on their expensive medium or long distance peak trains, and have cheap advances at other times.
If we want to help transport for the less well off, make buses better and cheaper. Tfl underground and buses are massively subsisided, doing the same for buses (and other undergrounds) throughout the country would help the poor more.

Re: The Message of Awe Thread

by overseasTOON » Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:28 pm

PTAO? wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:12 pm
Colback's Orange Tufts wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:17 pm


its hilarious. This thread is decent


Our trains are expensive in relation to Europe partly because passengers pay for the cost, not the taxpayer. Given rail commuters tend to be richer, lowering fares would be the poor subsiding the rich.
Our trains have issues to be fair, but the lines are very congested and built on Victorian infrastructure.
Except, like VAT, higher prices hit the poorest the hardest. A proportional income/wealth tax would result in the rich subsidising the poor.

Increasing prices because capacity is too high is no excuse. We should be encouraging people to use public transport, and investing in infrastructure, not pricing out the poor.
If it helps me to get a seat every morning; I'm OK with that.

Re: The Message of Awe Thread

by PTAO? » Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:12 pm

Colback's Orange Tufts wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:17 pm
overseasTOON wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:22 pm
The annual gnashing of teeth at train fare increases <awe>
its hilarious. This thread is decent


Our trains are expensive in relation to Europe partly because passengers pay for the cost, not the taxpayer. Given rail commuters tend to be richer, lowering fares would be the poor subsiding the rich.
Our trains have issues to be fair, but the lines are very congested and built on Victorian infrastructure.
Except, like VAT, higher prices hit the poorest the hardest. A proportional income/wealth tax would result in the rich subsidising the poor.

Increasing prices because capacity is too high is no excuse. We should be encouraging people to use public transport, and investing in infrastructure, not pricing out the poor.

Re: The Message of Awe Thread

by ALF » Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:06 pm

At least our trains are running, the last month in France has been a joke.

Re: The Message of Awe Thread

by Colback's Orange Tufts » Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:19 pm

also don't get me started on ppl complaining on the expense of last minute long distance peak time trains to London. We have insufficient capacity, we have to price high so they aren't overcrowded. And its business travellers paying these fares.

Re: The Message of Awe Thread

by Colback's Orange Tufts » Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:17 pm

overseasTOON wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:22 pm
The annual gnashing of teeth at train fare increases <awe>
its hilarious. This thread is decent


Our trains are expensive in relation to Europe partly because passengers pay for the cost, not the taxpayer. Given rail commuters tend to be richer, lowering fares would be the poor subsiding the rich.
Our trains have issues to be fair, but the lines are very congested and built on Victorian infrastructure.

Re: The Message of Awe Thread

by overseasTOON » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:22 pm

The annual gnashing of teeth at train fare increases <awe>

Re: The Message of Awe Thread

by Bodacious Benny » Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:05 am

biggeordiedave wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:30 am
Bodacious Benny wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:09 am
After the best part of 3 months of issues, banks and solicitors getting my equity money from the house from my ex, means I can now complete on my new place in early Jan.

Living with your ex for over 3 months isn’t something I’d recommend <laugh>
<grim>

Hope you're doing okay mate.
Yeah better now thanks, it’s been a s*** few months but the end is in sight. Looking forward to getting into my new place and starting fresh.

Re: The Message of Awe Thread

by biggeordiedave » Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:30 am

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:09 am
After the best part of 3 months of issues, banks and solicitors getting my equity money from the house from my ex, means I can now complete on my new place in early Jan.

Living with your ex for over 3 months isn’t something I’d recommend <laugh>
<grim>

Hope you're doing okay mate.

Re: The Message of Awe Thread

by Bodacious Benny » Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:09 am

After the best part of 3 months of issues, banks and solicitors getting my equity money from the house from my ex, means I can now complete on my new place in early Jan.

Living with your ex for over 3 months isn’t something I’d recommend <laugh>

Re: The Message of Awe Thread

by PTAO? » Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:50 pm

overseasTOON wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:30 pm
PTAO? wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 2:48 pm
Getting retweeted by Shearer and (Warren) Barton <awe>
Are you Anton Du Beke?
:bandit:

Re: The Message of Awe Thread

by overseasTOON » Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:30 pm

PTAO? wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 2:48 pm
Getting retweeted by Shearer and (Warren) Barton <awe>
Are you Anton Du Beke?

Re: The Message of Awe Thread

by PTAO? » Tue Dec 17, 2019 2:48 pm

Getting retweeted by Shearer and (Warren) Barton <awe>

Re: The Message of Awe Thread

by TJR » Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:52 pm

Steve Bruce.

Re: The Message of Awe Thread

by Hjl » Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:05 pm

PTAO? wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:19 pm
Hjl

<love>

Re: The Message of Awe Thread

by Bodacious Benny » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:57 pm

TF love-in.

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