by beatski » Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:23 pm
Captain Obvious wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:06 pm
What are the downsides to the Pfizer one then? I'm no anti-vaxxer but the idea of injecting my body with - a) an illness that didn't exist a 18 months ago and that we therefore don't know the long term effects of and b) a vaccine that has been rushed to market for profit and where speed to be first to market was crucial - doesn't fill me with too much excitement. I don't really understand all this stuff but the pfizer one might be the play for me given my concerns, if indeed we get any choice.
Can I ask too, if this is a flu of sorts (only more serious) I guess as per the flu jab we will require regular top ups - if not everybody (as this is more serious) then certainly a large chunk of the population?
The vaccines havent been created from scratch, its been built on the foundations of lots of other things (standing on the shoulders of giants). So while this particular coronavirus illness didnt exist 18 months ago, very similar ones did. e.g. the coronavirus SARS emerged in 2002, had a vaccine in 2003 and has been further researched for 18 years, a lot of that will carry over to cov19 and just need adapting for any sort of traditional vaccine.
Or in the case of the mRNA vaccine, it wasnt designed for coronavirus, its been worked on for a long time now and has been adapted for coronavirus. An mRNA vaccine is essentially a 'plug and play' blank template, where you insert some (non infectious) viral mRNA in to a framework, which then uses your cell's systems to make a controlled amount of the 'spike protein' (1 mrna molecule makes 1 spike protein).
This then triggers an immune response, giving you immunity. The hard part of this vaccine was making the framework that actually gets the mRNA to where it needs to be for this to happen, once you've got the framework you could potentially take mRNA from any infection and get similar results, which is why it has the potential to be a revolutionary bit of research:
From 2018: mRNA vaccines have elicited potent immunity against infectious disease targets in animal models of influenza virus, Zika virus, rabies virus and others, especially in recent years, using lipid-encapsulated or naked forms of sequence-optimized mRNA.
https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243
jpg wrote: ↑Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:20 am
I have a question...
What is the benefit/necessity of the vaccine for young adults if it doesn’t prevent transmission? Is it simply a precaution to protect against the virus should they develop a condition which weakens their immune system in the future?
Because it will still reduce the transmission rate since you've got less of the virus to spread, and a small reduction in transmission can result in a big reduction in spread. e.g. say the vaccine reduces the chances of transmission from 50% to 20%, if you are carrying the virus and run in to 10 people that's 2 people instead of 5 infected. if they all then run in to 10 people each (all vaccinated vs all unvaccinated) thats another 4 vs 25, then they run in to another 10 people its 8 vs 125 etc.
On top of that, a precaution cant hurt. we dont know the long term effects of infection (e.g. scarring in lungs, even in asymptomatic people), or you might get unlucky and it hits you really hard; my mate was hospitalised and he's only 33.
[quote="Captain Obvious" post_id=885419 time=1613689592 user_id=171]
What are the downsides to the Pfizer one then? I'm no anti-vaxxer but the idea of injecting my body with - a) an illness that didn't exist a 18 months ago and that we therefore don't know the long term effects of and b) a vaccine that has been rushed to market for profit and where speed to be first to market was crucial - doesn't fill me with too much excitement. I don't really understand all this stuff but the pfizer one might be the play for me given my concerns, if indeed we get any choice.
Can I ask too, if this is a flu of sorts (only more serious) I guess as per the flu jab we will require regular top ups - if not everybody (as this is more serious) then certainly a large chunk of the population?
[/quote]
The vaccines havent been created from scratch, its been built on the foundations of lots of other things (standing on the shoulders of giants). So while this particular coronavirus illness didnt exist 18 months ago, very similar ones did. e.g. the coronavirus SARS emerged in 2002, had a vaccine in 2003 and has been further researched for 18 years, a lot of that will carry over to cov19 and just need adapting for any sort of traditional vaccine.
Or in the case of the mRNA vaccine, it wasnt designed for coronavirus, its been worked on for a long time now and has been adapted for coronavirus. An mRNA vaccine is essentially a 'plug and play' blank template, where you insert some (non infectious) viral mRNA in to a framework, which then uses your cell's systems to make a controlled amount of the 'spike protein' (1 mrna molecule makes 1 spike protein).
This then triggers an immune response, giving you immunity. The hard part of this vaccine was making the framework that actually gets the mRNA to where it needs to be for this to happen, once you've got the framework you could potentially take mRNA from any infection and get similar results, which is why it has the potential to be a revolutionary bit of research:
[quote]From 2018: mRNA vaccines have elicited potent immunity against infectious disease targets in animal models of influenza virus, Zika virus, rabies virus and others, especially in recent years, using lipid-encapsulated or naked forms of sequence-optimized mRNA.
https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243[/quote]
[quote=jpg post_id=885495 time=1613902836 user_id=311]
I have a question...
What is the benefit/necessity of the vaccine for young adults if it doesn’t prevent transmission? Is it simply a precaution to protect against the virus should they develop a condition which weakens their immune system in the future?
[/quote]
Because it will still reduce the transmission rate since you've got less of the virus to spread, and a small reduction in transmission can result in a big reduction in spread. e.g. say the vaccine reduces the chances of transmission from 50% to 20%, if you are carrying the virus and run in to 10 people that's 2 people instead of 5 infected. if they all then run in to 10 people each (all vaccinated vs all unvaccinated) thats another 4 vs 25, then they run in to another 10 people its 8 vs 125 etc.
On top of that, a precaution cant hurt. we dont know the long term effects of infection (e.g. scarring in lungs, even in asymptomatic people), or you might get unlucky and it hits you really hard; my mate was hospitalised and he's only 33.
