ALF wrote:

Holystone... wrote:As I've said before this season above all in recent years was Armstrong's chance with Newcastle to press on. Look at the loan clubs he's been to. Coventry are about to dump into League 2 and Barnsley are mid table . Hard to see any of that being progressive in terms of a career. Plus adding in the uncertainty of his current loan being extended he's simply stalled .
I'd have thought being amongst better players in training at Newcastle and getting the odd appearance ( even Sammy got a run on ) was better than what he's had .
Now were in the Premiership there's no chance of him returning to make his mark with us . A decent local lad who simply has found his level and a career that never took off .

Coventry finished 8th when he was there. Not sure what the relevance of them being awful now is?

Barnsley have done well this season, their aim was to stay up and it was always going to be a struggle for him there. It's a learning curve.

We've seen from our young players before that sitting around playing reserve team football each week is useless. The big thing that nearly every team is doing now is taking the gamble on young players. If you look through the Premier League you can pick out a few players from every side that have come through the youth system. I'm not saying they start every week but they get games.

Also for a bit of context. Harry Kane scored 5 goals in 18 League One games for Leicester, 7 goals in 22 Championship games for Millwall, 0 goals in 3 PL games for Norwich and then 2 goals in 13 Championship games for Leicester. He then broke into the Spurs team at 20(the same age Armstrong is now) and wasn't a regular until he was 21.

But yeah let's write off someone who's just turned 20 and has scored more goals than the best striker in the Premier League had at the same age. 'Fans'

Holystone... wrote:As I've said before this season above all in recent years was Armstrong's chance with Newcastle to press on. Look at the loan clubs he's been to. Coventry are about to dump into League 2 and Barnsley are mid table . Hard to see any of that being progressive in terms of a career. Plus adding in the uncertainty of his current loan being extended he's simply stalled .
I'd have thought being amongst better players in training at Newcastle and getting the odd appearance ( even Sammy got a run on ) was better than what he's had .
Now were in the Premiership there's no chance of him returning to make his mark with us . A decent local lad who simply has found his level and a career that never took off .

ALF wrote:

MultipleJesuses wrote:

What? He knows the Barnsley side better than anyone. Ritchie is injured, Diame is s****, Perez has had an inconsistent season, Gouffran is Gouffran. A lot of our team picks itself this weekend but there's been question marks over 1 wing and number 10 all season, why not use the new option?

MultipleJesuses wrote:

ALF wrote:
I'll be honest, I watched the games against Liverpool and Chelsea and he started both

He started at Sheffield United(12 games, 0 goals), last season in League 2 with Northampton he got 8 goals in 26 games. Armstrong is far more accomplished than him so far and even if he isn't the regular I claimed he still has a role in a top 7 club.

Armstrong has been in and out of the team since Christmas, he's also picked up a couple of knocks in that time. It's not been a successful loan but I'd take the gamble and play him. I'd even go as far to start him on the left or behind Mitro this weekend.

ALF wrote:

Bodacious Benny wrote:
I wouldn't say that 4 starts makes Calvert-Lewin a regular. As far as I know Calvert-Lewin hasn't had loan spells or sustained runs in a first team anywhere so it's impossible to say if one is better than the other.

I'd say that someone who has been on the Barnsley bench for several months now isn't exactly ready for a role in a PL team. He's had one excellent season in League One and 1/3 of a decent season in the Championship but only got 6 goals.

I'll be honest, I watched the games against Liverpool and Chelsea and he started both

He started at Sheffield United(12 games, 0 goals), last season in League 2 with Northampton he got 8 goals in 26 games. Armstrong is far more accomplished than him so far and even if he isn't the regular I claimed he still has a role in a top 7 club.

Armstrong has been in and out of the team since Christmas, he's also picked up a couple of knocks in that time. It's not been a successful loan but I'd take the gamble and play him. I'd even go as far to start him on the left or behind Mitro this weekend.

Bodacious Benny wrote:

ALF wrote:
I take a lot of the comments there with a pinch of salt. People complaining that he's not back onside quickly enough, that happens to a lot of people but you've got to question why the pass is being played. Anyone with a brain doesn't pass to an offside forward. Think the positive comments are more important, clinical finisher with great technique. I think it was just the wrong team for him.

To say he's not capable of being a squad player for us is bizarre, he's a better player than Dominic Calvert-Lewin who is a regular for Everton and he's shown more than Ademola Lookman who they signed for £7.5m in January.

The one worry seems to be his workrate but again I think that was just the wrong team, it's never looked like an issue for us and I don't remember Coventry fans moaning about it.

I wouldn't say that 4 starts makes Calvert-Lewin a regular. As far as I know Calvert-Lewin hasn't had loan spells or sustained runs in a first team anywhere so it's impossible to say if one is better than the other.

I'd say that someone who has been on the Barnsley bench for several months now isn't exactly ready for a role in a PL team. He's had one excellent season in League One and 1/3 of a decent season in the Championship but only got 6 goals.

ALF wrote:

Bodacious Benny wrote:Pretty damning, but it was always pretty clear to a lot of people that Armstrong is no-where near capable of being a PL squad player for us next season (and further reinforces why we need to invest in one or two goalscorers). He needs at least another year in the Championship. He seemed to start well this season and then fade badly. His record for England youth teams is great but it doesn't really mean anything.

I take a lot of the comments there with a pinch of salt. People complaining that he's not back onside quickly enough, that happens to a lot of people but you've got to question why the pass is being played. Anyone with a brain doesn't pass to an offside forward. Think the positive comments are more important, clinical finisher with great technique. I think it was just the wrong team for him.

To say he's not capable of being a squad player for us is bizarre, he's a better player than Dominic Calvert-Lewin who is a regular for Everton and he's shown more than Ademola Lookman who they signed for £7.5m in January.

The one worry seems to be his workrate but again I think that was just the wrong team, it's never looked like an issue for us and I don't remember Coventry fans moaning about it.

Bodacious Benny wrote:Pretty damning, but it was always pretty clear to a lot of people that Armstrong is no-where near capable of being a PL squad player for us next season (and further reinforces why we need to invest in one or two goalscorers). He needs at least another year in the Championship. He seemed to start well this season and then fade badly. His record for England youth teams is great but it doesn't really mean anything.

biggeordiedave wrote:

ALF wrote:
As a full back it's not a bad thing. People were referring to Santon as a dream signing

I have a few problems with Dummett and he's shown them this season.

1) He panics a lot. If he has the ball he quite often has no idea what he's doing with it and just puts it anywhere.
2) More often than not, his final ball is poor. The number of times he's just hoofed it to nobody this season is alarming. Consequently, he hasn't scored/assisted at all and I'd expect a full back to chip in with at least a couple of assists. Yedlin for instance has 1 goal and 4 assists. Possibly being a touch harsh here though.
3) He doesn't always read the play very well. A player with even a moderate amount of flair can get past him with ease and he can get caught out of position a lot.

However, I will say that he does put a shift in and I've noticed a marked improvement towards the later stages of the season. I'd even go so far as to say he's had a few decent performances lately.

ALF wrote:

biggeordiedave wrote:
That's what we should be aiming for .

As a full back it's not a bad thing. People were referring to Santon as a dream signing

biggeordiedave wrote:

ALF wrote:
Wasn't even that. Started 3 league games for us.

Doesn't even warrant a response in fairness. The whole 'Dummett is s****' crowd are boring now. Saw someone on twitter claiming he's had an awful season and made loads of mistakes. It's a position we can improve on definitely, but it's also the most consistent player in our team. You know exactly what you're getting, more often than not it's a defensively solid 7/10 performance without offering much going forward.

That's what we should be aiming for .

ALF wrote:

Beatski wrote:
Had 11 starts in a dire side who were all awful, with the fans on his back straight away. Not surprised he didn't hit the ground running

Wasn't even that. Started 3 league games for us.

biggeordiedave wrote:
Wait until ALF reads this

Doesn't even warrant a response in fairness. The whole 'Dummett is s****' crowd are boring now. Saw someone on twitter claiming he's had an awful season and made loads of mistakes. It's a position we can improve on definitely, but it's also the most consistent player in our team. You know exactly what you're getting, more often than not it's a defensively solid 7/10 performance without offering much going forward.

Beatski wrote:

Chappy wrote:
Couldn't hack it over here tho... fanny. Never seen someone so terrified of the ball in black & white.

Had 11 starts in a dire side who were all awful, with the fans on his back straight away. Not surprised he didn't hit the ground running

biggeordiedave wrote:

Holystone... wrote: ...
Your not been watching the speed Dummett gets rid when confronted by any close range opponent then.

Wait until ALF reads this

Holystone... wrote:

Chappy wrote:
Couldn't hack it over here tho... fanny. Never seen someone so terrified of the ball in black & white.

...
Your not been watching the speed Dummett gets rid when confronted by any close range opponent then.

Chappy wrote:

UlversToon wrote:Hat-trick and an assist for Thauvin today.

Couldn't hack it over here tho... fanny. Never seen someone so terrified of the ball in black & white.