Match day thread - NUFC v Bournemouth

by **Remember Colo** » Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:28 pm

Colly wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:26 am
I think what Shelvey to an extent gives you is maybe a bit more bite, and he's sitting back too so is there as a body (until he tanks at about 70 minutes and starts pointing...). I was more referring to when we have possession though, as we're massively limited to going down the wings for a cross, something that was painfully obvious in the Brighton game where Dunk'n'Duffy just headed easy clearances for 90 minutes. With Ki in the side we keep possession in the middle, and while it's early days it also frees Diame up to do things like that fantastic ball to Yedlin for the opener. Even Perez looked a bit brighter with players closer by to link up with, and the added bonus of Rondon actually winning headers for flick ons.

I suppose the interesting thing is that not knowing how long Shelvey's out for it might not even be a decision Rafa has to make, but I'm perfectly happy to give Ki/Diame a run for a few games.

I think you've got the tactic analysis right, but then the question should maybe be whether it's an issue with how Rafa asks Shelvey to play, more so than Ki doing it better. It does beg the question whether he could find a way to play them both.

by **Colly** » Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:26 am

I think what Shelvey to an extent gives you is maybe a bit more bite, and he's sitting back too so is there as a body (until he tanks at about 70 minutes and starts pointing...). I was more referring to when we have possession though, as we're massively limited to going down the wings for a cross, something that was painfully obvious in the Brighton game where Dunk'n'Duffy just headed easy clearances for 90 minutes. With Ki in the side we keep possession in the middle, and while it's early days it also frees Diame up to do things like that fantastic ball to Yedlin for the opener. Even Perez looked a bit brighter with players closer by to link up with, and the added bonus of Rondon actually winning headers for flick ons.

I suppose the interesting thing is that not knowing how long Shelvey's out for it might not even be a decision Rafa has to make, but I'm perfectly happy to give Ki/Diame a run for a few games.

by **Speedo** » Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:13 am

Bodacious Benny wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:00 am
Do we really control games with Shelvey in the team? Not saying I don’t want Shelvey in the team or anything but I rarely watch us and think we’re in control in the centre of the park.

I mean we have done a slightly less good job of that this season but I think so, yes. We haven’t spent much time leading so we haven’t seen him do what he did last season - slow the game down, pick out passes just force the opposition to press higher or wider, and create spaces in behind to play in.

I think it’s also very noticeable, however, that Shelvey doesn’t yet have the understanding with Muto, Perez, Rondon that he had with Gayle - something which makes it harder for him to spring defences as much as he did from deep last season.

by **bodacious benny** » Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:00 am

Do we really control games with Shelvey in the team? Not saying I don’t want Shelvey in the team or anything but I rarely watch us and think we’re in control in the centre of the park.

by **Speedo** » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:50 am

Colly wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:19 am

Don Sholeone wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:59 pm
Rondon was a beast today, also think Ki needs some recognition for that cross field ball that lead to the second, if that was shelvey people would have been going mental for it, also cracking cross from Kenedy.
It's not even just the quality of the cross, when Shelvey plays those he's usually at least twenty yards further back and it's obvious that that's the ball he'll play. With this one Ki was up with play, first looked to see if the short one to Rondon or back to the right wing would work, then played that perfect ball having barely had a glimpse. Genuinely brilliant.

I like Shelvey and think he's a good player, but positionally he's so influential on the way we play and I'd argue not in a good way. At the risk of risk of sounding like a stuck record (remember those?) Shelvey spends his games sitting so deep that we have a massive hole in the middle of midfield most of our games limiting our ability to pass through midfield. With Ki we suddenly have an option for the likes of Dummett and our wingers to pass short to, he's not scared to carry it forward, and his setpieces are no worse. Added bonus is the Schär can do the long balls from defense...

Interesting perspective. I loved Ki yesterday, he was quality for all the reasons you describe. But my concern was that it didn’t seem like we had control in the middle of the park in the same way we do with Shelvey. As a result they had way more chances towards the end of the game because we didn’t do a great job of slowing the game down - which Shelvey is great at.

I think there are two solutions to that though - drop Perez and have Shelvey and Diame deep and Ki in front of them as a pseudo-no. 10; or replace Diame with a DM that is slightly more technical vs. a big physical lump - a Tiote-style player - to get that total control of the central midfield area.

by **Colly** » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:19 am

Don Sholeone wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:59 pm
Rondon was a beast today, also think Ki needs some recognition for that cross field ball that lead to the second, if that was shelvey people would have been going mental for it, also cracking cross from Kenedy.

It's not even just the quality of the cross, when Shelvey plays those he's usually at least twenty yards further back and it's obvious that that's the ball he'll play. With this one Ki was up with play, first looked to see if the short one to Rondon or back to the right wing would work, then played that perfect ball having barely had a glimpse. Genuinely brilliant.

I like Shelvey and think he's a good player, but positionally he's so influential on the way we play and I'd argue not in a good way. At the risk of risk of sounding like a stuck record (remember those?) Shelvey spends his games sitting so deep that we have a massive hole in the middle of midfield most of our games limiting our ability to pass through midfield. With Ki we suddenly have an option for the likes of Dummett and our wingers to pass short to, he's not scared to carry it forward, and his setpieces are no worse. Added bonus is the Schär can do the long balls from defense...

by **Asprillasfurcoat** » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:40 am

Rondons second was the first 'proper old fashioned Newcastle number 9 goal' we've seen in a LONG time ! Belting Supermac/Shearer/Ferdinand/Asprilla type goal .. more please Mr R !

by **bodacious benny** » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:50 pm

We were unlucky not to get a penalty against Man U, but we got away with one today (Fernandez) so that’s evened itself out.

by **Somebodys pinched my sombrero** » Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:33 pm

Don Sholeone wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:07 pm

Somebodys pinched my sombrero wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:52 pm
Any clever bugger put a link to the goals up?
First goal was on twitter earlier but looks to have been taken down, here's the second though

Cheers what a cracking goal!

by **Don Sholeone** » Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:07 pm

Somebodys pinched my sombrero wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:52 pm
Any clever bugger put a link to the goals up?

First goal was on twitter earlier but looks to have been taken down, here's the second though

by **beatski** » Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:02 pm

Buzzing. Looked a bit suspect at the back, but we did create a lot of chances

by **Somebodys pinched my sombrero** » Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:52 pm

Any clever bugger put a link to the goals up?

by **bodacious benny** » Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:44 pm

Ki needs to be in the team. Saw him live a few times when he was at Swansea and was always the one to make things tick.

by **Donkey Toon** » Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:41 pm

Speedo wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:37 pm

Donkey Toon wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:18 pm

Yep, Rondon was excellent, as were Dubravka and Fernandez. Ki and Kenedy also great. Others mostly solid, with only Diame underperforming imo.
Agreed with both of these. I was at the game and though we rode our luck at times we were quality going forward, thanks to Rondon first and foremost, but also Kenedy, Ki and Schar.

I wasn’t that persuaded by Diame or Perez though I have to say - we need a more efficient destroyer in the not too distant future...

Forgot about Perez. Agree he wasn't up to standard either.

by **Speedo** » Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:37 pm

Donkey Toon wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:18 pm

Don Sholeone wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:59 pm
Rondon was a beast today, also think Ki needs some recognition for that cross field ball that lead to the second, if that was shelvey people would have been going mental for it, also cracking cross from Kenedy.

Fernandez i think has paid his fee already, a real leader on the pitch who can take some pressure off lascelles, also when lejeune is back we are going to have a real dillema as to who plays at the back.
Yep, Rondon was excellent, as were Dubravka and Fernandez. Ki and Kenedy also great. Others mostly solid, with only Diame underperforming imo.

Agreed with both of these. I was at the game and though we rode our luck at times we were quality going forward, thanks to Rondon first and foremost, but also Kenedy, Ki and Schar.

I wasn’t that persuaded by Diame or Perez though I have to say - we need a more efficient destroyer in the not too distant future...

by **Donkey Toon** » Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:18 pm

Don Sholeone wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:59 pm
Rondon was a beast today, also think Ki needs some recognition for that cross field ball that lead to the second, if that was shelvey people would have been going mental for it, also cracking cross from Kenedy.

Fernandez i think has paid his fee already, a real leader on the pitch who can take some pressure off lascelles, also when lejeune is back we are going to have a real dillema as to who plays at the back.

Yep, Rondon was excellent, as were Dubravka and Fernandez. Ki and Kenedy also great. Others mostly solid, with only Diame underperforming imo.

by **Hjl** » Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:17 pm

Hopefully now we can keep him up front. So obviously better than any of our other options.

by **Don Sholeone** » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:59 pm

Rondon was a beast today, also think Ki needs some recognition for that cross field ball that lead to the second, if that was shelvey people would have been going mental for it, also cracking cross from Kenedy.

Fernandez i think has paid his fee already, a real leader on the pitch who can take some pressure off lascelles, also when lejeune is back we are going to have a real dillema as to who plays at the back.

by **Sir Bobby** » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:58 pm

Heisen wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:34 pm
I tell you what, we're lucky there are some poor teams in the division this year. 9 points after 12 games and we're somehow 14th, what's all that about any other year we'd probably be bottom

I've just looked and we'd be in the relegation zone in 4 out of the last 5 seasons with our current points. But you can only beat what's in front of you and we've had some hard games mixed so far and come out in a good position, albeit with not many points on the board yet

by **Chappy** » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:54 pm

Rondon was a f***ing animal today.

Cracking atmosphere today n all, stadium was f***ing bouncing.

Match day thread - NUFC v Bournemouth

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