Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

Post a reply


This question is a means of preventing automated form submissions by spambots.
BBCode is ON
[img] is OFF
[flash] is OFF
[url] is ON
Smilies are OFF
Topic review
   

Expand view Topic review: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

by Remember Colo » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:41 pm

Don Sholeone wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:19 pm
 Wasnt it Ashley/the club that came out and admitted they wanted to focus on the PL rather than the cups, so i think its quite reasonable to blame those at the top for our performances over the years, a manager going all out for a cup would go against the clubs policy, so i think its fair to cut the manager a bit of slack
It's changed at different points. He's also said that he wanted to win a cup before his time was done as owner. It's really never felt like football performance one way or the other was particularly important to him. I also don't know what "going all out for a cup" would entail when still getting turned over by sides making 11 changes themselves. Again, not trying to excuse Ashley, I just think it's been such an embarrassing stretch of poor performance from the club in cups, regardless of whether the manager has selected reserve sides, or near full strength sides.

Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

by Don Sholeone » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:19 pm

Wasnt it Ashley/the club that came out and admitted they wanted to focus on the PL rather than the cups, so i think its quite reasonable to blame those at the top for our performances over the years, a manager going all out for a cup would go against the clubs policy, so i think its fair to cut the manager a bit of slack

Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

by Remember Colo » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:04 pm

Heisen wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:42 pm
 Our losses in the last 10 seasons with the finishing positions of those seasons:

2008/09 Hull City (h) lost replay 0-1 R3 (drew first game 0-0)
Finishing position: 18th in PL, relegated
2009/10 West Brom (a) 2-4 R4
FP: 1st in Championship, promoted
2010/11 Stevenage (a) 1-3 R3
FP: 12th in PL
2011/12 Brighton (a) 0-2 R4
FP: 5th in PL
2012/13 Brighton (a) 0-1 R3
FP: 16th in PL
2013/14 Cardiff City (h) lost 1-2 R3
FP: 10th in PL
2014/15 Leicester City (a) lost 0-1 R3
FP: 15th in PL
2015/16 Watford (a) lost 0-1 R3
FP: 18th in PL, relegated
2016/17 Oxford United (a) lost 0-3 R4
FP: 1st in Championship, promoted
2017/18 Chelsea (a) lost 0-3 R4
FP: 10th in PL
2018/19 Watford (h) lost 0-2 R4
FP: ???

So, of the last ten years, there has only really been four seasons, of what I can recall, where we weren't battling relegation and/or challenging promotion at this point in the season. Those being the 2010/11, 2011/12, 2013/14, and 2014/15 campaigns.

Those losses were to Stevenage, Brighton, Cardiff and Leicester. Stevenage was just a good old fashioned giant killing (I remember Pardew played a strong team that day, we were just awful), and Brighton turned over a strong team the first year. The other two though I remember both Pardew and Carver got absolutely hammered for playing weakened teams when we had nothing to play for in the league, so much so that Carver almost got in a scrap with a fan after the Leicester game. We lost to Chelsea because they were Chelsea.

So to say the managers never get criticised for it isn't true, they did and vociferously. And to Benny's point, the other seasons we simply haven't been in the position to have a go in the cups as we had other priorities at that point in the season. And the buck stops with Ashley there.
I didn't mean that managers weren't criticized at the time, I just meant how the story's been covered over the past week or so. It's often just focused on Ashley regarding the cups, when I think it's been failure from top to bottom. I'd add, just because we battle relegation, doesn't mean getting bounced from the cup contributed to survival.

Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

by jpg » Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:25 am

Colly wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:18 pm
 Give quiche a chance.

"Ashley Out"
"Chameleonic Life Forms, No Thanks"

Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

by Heisen » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:42 pm

Our losses in the last 10 seasons with the finishing positions of those seasons:

2008/09 Hull City (h) lost replay 0-1 R3 (drew first game 0-0)
Finishing position: 18th in PL, relegated
2009/10 West Brom (a) 2-4 R4
FP: 1st in Championship, promoted
2010/11 Stevenage (a) 1-3 R3
FP: 12th in PL
2011/12 Brighton (a) 0-2 R4
FP: 5th in PL
2012/13 Brighton (a) 0-1 R3
FP: 16th in PL
2013/14 Cardiff City (h) lost 1-2 R3
FP: 10th in PL
2014/15 Leicester City (a) lost 0-1 R3
FP: 15th in PL
2015/16 Watford (a) lost 0-1 R3
FP: 18th in PL, relegated
2016/17 Oxford United (a) lost 0-3 R4
FP: 1st in Championship, promoted
2017/18 Chelsea (a) lost 0-3 R4
FP: 10th in PL
2018/19 Watford (h) lost 0-2 R4
FP: ???

So, of the last ten years, there has only really been four seasons, of what I can recall, where we weren't battling relegation and/or challenging promotion at this point in the season. Those being the 2010/11, 2011/12, 2013/14, and 2014/15 campaigns.

Those losses were to Stevenage, Brighton, Cardiff and Leicester. Stevenage was just a good old fashioned giant killing (I remember Pardew played a strong team that day, we were just awful), and Brighton turned over a strong team the first year. The other two though I remember both Pardew and Carver got absolutely hammered for playing weakened teams when we had nothing to play for in the league, so much so that Carver almost got in a scrap with a fan after the Leicester game. We lost to Chelsea because they were Chelsea.

So to say the managers never get criticised for it isn't true, they did and vociferously. And to Benny's point, the other seasons we simply haven't been in the position to have a go in the cups as we had other priorities at that point in the season. And the buck stops with Ashley there.

Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

by bodacious benny » Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:53 pm

Remember Colo wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:45 pm
 I've gotten annoyed by how the press have talked about our terrible streak of cup performances. it's obviously shameful we haven't gotten past the 4th round of the FA Cup, and it's highlighted the lack of depth and investment in the squad during Ashley's tenure. But losing to the clubs we have in that time, the way we have, I think speaks more to the managers and players in that time. It's not as if Ashley is calling up demanding for the side to lose, considering he seems to go months without communicating with managers, and doesn't seem particularly concerned about league survival either.
True but it all boils back to a lack of depth which is Ashley’s fault. Most of those seasons we’ve either been fighting relegation or chasing promotion and a complete lack of squad depth means managers prioritise the league and bring in players for the cup who really aren’t good enough. While it’s true that some of our exits have been embarrassing (Stevenage, Oxford etc) and players should take a lot of the blame too, but had we built a squad with more strength in depth then we’d have had more chance or opportunity to progress.

It’s even more annoying as after the next round it’s all very average teams left in the competition other than man C and either Chelsea / Man U. Definitely should have had a run at a SF or even a final depending on the draw.

Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

by Remember Colo » Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:45 pm

I've gotten annoyed by how the press have talked about our terrible streak of cup performances. it's obviously shameful we haven't gotten past the 4th round of the FA Cup, and it's highlighted the lack of depth and investment in the squad during Ashley's tenure. But losing to the clubs we have in that time, the way we have, I think speaks more to the managers and players in that time. It's not as if Ashley is calling up demanding for the side to lose, considering he seems to go months without communicating with managers, and doesn't seem particularly concerned about league survival either.

Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

by UlversToon » Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:26 pm

Portsmouth/QPR v Watford

There for the taking!

Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

by Colly » Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:51 am

overseasTOON wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:39 am
 Couldn't this DW Sports 'protest' be construed as ambush marketing and if so; the club is well within their rights to remove them.
I doubt they'll even care. The game before the 11th minute walkin was when they handed out the last lot of flyers and I saw three being held up. They might get a few more this time but anyone over the age of 25 will remember that Dave Whelan is a horrible man.

That said someone has replied to me on twitter to say that his leg wasn't actually broken so it's okay...

Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

by overseasTOON » Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:39 am

Couldn't this DW Sports 'protest' be construed as ambush marketing and if so; the club is well within their rights to remove them.

Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

by bodacious benny » Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:24 pm

Colly wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:18 pm
 Give quiche a chance.
<laugh>

Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

by Colly » Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:18 pm

Give quiche a chance.

Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

by bodacious benny » Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:13 pm

Mass leafleting campaign, Arnold Rimmer must be in charge.

Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

by Colly » Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:12 pm



Case in f***ing point. Needless to say you won't see me holding up a piece of paper advertising Dave Whelan's shop on Tuesday night.

Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

by Colly » Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:08 pm

Yup. I like Twitter, but never read the comments below a post. Twitter football fans are utter fuckwits.

Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

by Heisen » Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:02 pm

Fair point <laugh>

The s*** thing is it's usually the Twitter mob that get picked up by the mainstream press and make us look like utter imbeciles, thus giving Ashley's apologist mates a wall to hide behind.

Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

by Colly » Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:58 pm

To be fair, Twitter.

Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

by Heisen » Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:39 pm

Colly wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:30 pm
Heisen wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:14 pm

I agree entirely, it needs a total reboot all the way through. Ashley's rotten ownership has quite literally damaged the club in every aspect, I find it staggering there are people out there still willing to defend him.

I will defend Benitez slightly on the signings. I highly doubt that Joselu was even in his top 10 signings. However that is not to say he is blameless - the few 'big money' signings he has made have all been very questionable, so I totally sympathise with people who don't particularly relish him having a bigger pot to play with.

I fear we are a relegation away from catastrophe. It is absolutely imperative we stay up this season otherwise there is a very good chance the club will just drop like a stone.
Are there people still defending Ashley though? I just don't see it. There's a bit of me that can justify what he's doing to an extent (trying to get his money back) but I wouldn't suggest that's defending him, and I'd certainly never defend the way he's done it by making the brand so toxic that commercial revenues are so badly damaged whilst gambling on near relegation year after year.

I genuinely just don't see these people you're describing who dislike Benitez whilst overlooking Ashley.
There's a few. Look on Twitter for a start. There's a vocal minority who feel that blaming Ashley is an easy way out in order to overlook Benitez' shortcomings. Maybe not defending Ashley as such in terms of 'he's doing a great job' like knobheads such as Ferdinand and Wise, but certainly wasting too much energy at shouting for a change of manager than directing that towards Ashley.

Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

by Colly » Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:30 pm

Heisen wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:14 pm
ALF wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:43 pm

Whilst I agree with a lot of that, there isn't just one problem at the club. Mike Ashley is the biggest problem without a doubt, however on the flipside there are people that seem to think we'll get a takeover, spend a fortune and suddenly Rafa will have us playing good, attacking football and he'll make all these top signings. Chances are we'd get slightly upgraded versions of Diame, Joselu, Ritchie, Atsu etc. We'd still have team of workhorses that try not to concede.

As you say, removing Ashley should be the goal and hopefully it's sooner rather than later. But the club needs an overhaul. New owner, new chairman, new manager, investment in the training ground, stadium, staff, players, academy. It's rotten from top to bottom and needs a complete reset.
I agree entirely, it needs a total reboot all the way through. Ashley's rotten ownership has quite literally damaged the club in every aspect, I find it staggering there are people out there still willing to defend him.

I will defend Benitez slightly on the signings. I highly doubt that Joselu was even in his top 10 signings. However that is not to say he is blameless - the few 'big money' signings he has made have all been very questionable, so I totally sympathise with people who don't particularly relish him having a bigger pot to play with.

I fear we are a relegation away from catastrophe. It is absolutely imperative we stay up this season otherwise there is a very good chance the club will just drop like a stone.
Are there people still defending Ashley though? I just don't see it. There's a bit of me that can justify what he's doing to an extent (trying to get his money back) but I wouldn't suggest that's defending him, and I'd certainly never defend the way he's done it by making the brand so toxic that commercial revenues are so badly damaged whilst gambling on near relegation year after year.

I genuinely just don't see these people you're describing who dislike Benitez whilst overlooking Ashley.

Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

by Heisen » Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:23 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:11 pm
 It’s worrying that a lot of clubs are using the money in the game at the moment (which won’t last forever) to develop and future proof themselves (e.g. state of the art training facilities etc) whereas we’re doing nothing. There’s a very real risk that we will be left behind and our long term prospects don’t look good.
As we all know, Ashley is purely running us like an extended arm of Sports Direct. He has a 'that will do' attitude which means any money or profit the club is turning goes straight into the coffers to pay for the costs of its running, making it self-sustainable. That is an admirable approach to running any business, but Ashley still hasn't grasped (or more than likely has but now doesn't care) running a football club isn't like running a business. And any business worth it's salt understands that certain costs have to be underwritten as part of the profit- things like upkeep of facilities, staff turnover etc. Most (ie. Almost all) businesses actually factor these costs into the day to day running, not have them tacked on as added extras, as Ashley seems to think they are.

But as we know from the investigation into Sports Directs practices, it seems the welfare of his staff and facilities are just drains on Ashley's single-minded focus of making money. He is just a greedy, selfish piece of s*** who has no desire other than to keep turning a profit at the absolute lowest cost possible. Any money the club gets will just be hoovered up towards that.

Top