Match day thread - NUFC v Bournemouth

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Expand view Topic review: Match day thread - NUFC v Bournemouth

Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Bournemouth

by Remember Colo » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:43 am

ALF wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:01 am
Remember Colo wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:13 pm

Was it the Leicester match where his mark scored several goals? Or even after he came on for Lascelles, he misjudged his jump and the cross went over him to be headed on goal. I think his positioning is decent, he has great mobility for a CB and defends balls on the ground and dribbling well, but I think there's a lot more pressure on him to mark taller and more talented aerial players in the box as a CB (especially when the Longstaffs are in midfield), and I think it's a weakness of his game. Nonetheless, I like him as a versatile defender on the bench, and as you said, we've got a couple CBs returning soon anyway.
This season Dummett has won 16 aerial duels and lost 9 apparently.

In contrast:

Clark has won 15 and lost 17.
Lascelles has won 24 and lost 18.
Schar has won 13 and lost 13.
Fernandez has won 11 and lost 0.

The stats show Dummett as being above average in the air for us. And Sean Longstaff being in midfield doesn't put pressure on for others to mark tall players, he's about 6 foot himself!
I appreciate the use of stats, but not all aerial duels are valued equally, when several of those lost resulted in goals. Maybe it was unfair of me to use such a small sample size, but for as little as Dummett has played this season, relative to the other CBs especially, he's been responsible for a few goals, and I think as a CB he's clearly a step down from the other options. Despite that, the fact he can also play fullback makes him really versatile, and I'm glad he's in the side.

Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Bournemouth

by ALF » Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:00 pm

Colly wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:43 am
I always take stats like that with a pinch of salt. I'm literally a statistician by profession but find the obsession with turning football into stats a bit silly, they all need very careful interpretation.

Otherwise you get really excited by things like "Danny Simpson has made 5 goal line clearances this season" before asking why he was on the goal line rather than at full back stopping the cross coming in at all. Aerial duels can mean anything from a clearance 40 yards from goal to a vital goal saving header, and that one with Vardy in the box was pretty poor.

Dummett has been good in the air at full back for years, he doesn't struggle getting above little wingers, but we'll have to see if he can do the same at centre half.
Yeah stats never tell the whole story and can be manipulated either way at times. He's not been perfect like Fernandez seemingly has but it's definitely not a weakness.

Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Bournemouth

by Colly » Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:43 am

I always take stats like that with a pinch of salt. I'm literally a statistician by profession but find the obsession with turning football into stats a bit silly, they all need very careful interpretation.

Otherwise you get really excited by things like "Danny Simpson has made 5 goal line clearances this season" before asking why he was on the goal line rather than at full back stopping the cross coming in at all. Aerial duels can mean anything from a clearance 40 yards from goal to a vital goal saving header, and that one with Vardy in the box was pretty poor.

Dummett has been good in the air at full back for years, he doesn't struggle getting above little wingers, but we'll have to see if he can do the same at centre half.

Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Bournemouth

by ALF » Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:01 am

Remember Colo wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:13 pm
Bodacious Benny wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:22 pm


Can’t say I’ve really noticed tbh and Dummett usually does a good job at CB. Maybe in a back 3 it’s not so much of an issue if one is weaker in the air. But yeah, I don’t think it’ll be long until we see Lejeune on the bench and working his way back in and I don’t think Schar has a serious injury either.
Was it the Leicester match where his mark scored several goals? Or even after he came on for Lascelles, he misjudged his jump and the cross went over him to be headed on goal. I think his positioning is decent, he has great mobility for a CB and defends balls on the ground and dribbling well, but I think there's a lot more pressure on him to mark taller and more talented aerial players in the box as a CB (especially when the Longstaffs are in midfield), and I think it's a weakness of his game. Nonetheless, I like him as a versatile defender on the bench, and as you said, we've got a couple CBs returning soon anyway.
This season Dummett has won 16 aerial duels and lost 9 apparently.

In contrast:

Clark has won 15 and lost 17.
Lascelles has won 24 and lost 18.
Schar has won 13 and lost 13.
Fernandez has won 11 and lost 0.

The stats show Dummett as being above average in the air for us. And Sean Longstaff being in midfield doesn't put pressure on for others to mark tall players, he's about 6 foot himself!

Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Bournemouth

by Remember Colo » Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:13 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:22 pm
Remember Colo wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:46 pm

Hope that Lejeune or Schar come back soon though. I used to say Dummett should transition to CB, and although I still think it's good we've replaced him with a LB like Willems, Dummett does seem to struggle with aerial duels and I'm nervous with him in that role now too.
Can’t say I’ve really noticed tbh and Dummett usually does a good job at CB. Maybe in a back 3 it’s not so much of an issue if one is weaker in the air. But yeah, I don’t think it’ll be long until we see Lejeune on the bench and working his way back in and I don’t think Schar has a serious injury either.
Was it the Leicester match where his mark scored several goals? Or even after he came on for Lascelles, he misjudged his jump and the cross went over him to be headed on goal. I think his positioning is decent, he has great mobility for a CB and defends balls on the ground and dribbling well, but I think there's a lot more pressure on him to mark taller and more talented aerial players in the box as a CB (especially when the Longstaffs are in midfield), and I think it's a weakness of his game. Nonetheless, I like him as a versatile defender on the bench, and as you said, we've got a couple CBs returning soon anyway.

Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Bournemouth

by Bodacious Benny » Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:22 pm

Remember Colo wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:46 pm
Bodacious Benny wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:20 pm


Luckily it’s our best area of the pitch to pick up injuries!
Hope that Lejeune or Schar come back soon though. I used to say Dummett should transition to CB, and although I still think it's good we've replaced him with a LB like Willems, Dummett does seem to struggle with aerial duels and I'm nervous with him in that role now too.
Can’t say I’ve really noticed tbh and Dummett usually does a good job at CB. Maybe in a back 3 it’s not so much of an issue if one is weaker in the air. But yeah, I don’t think it’ll be long until we see Lejeune on the bench and working his way back in and I don’t think Schar has a serious injury either.

Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Bournemouth

by Remember Colo » Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:46 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:20 pm
Toondes wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:02 pm
Just seen laccelles at kings cross on crutches. Didn’t look very mobile
Luckily it’s our best area of the pitch to pick up injuries!
Hope that Lejeune or Schar come back soon though. I used to say Dummett should transition to CB, and although I still think it's good we've replaced him with a LB like Willems, Dummett does seem to struggle with aerial duels and I'm nervous with him in that role now too.

Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Bournemouth

by Bodacious Benny » Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:20 pm

Toondes wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:02 pm
Just seen laccelles at kings cross on crutches. Didn’t look very mobile
Luckily it’s our best area of the pitch to pick up injuries!

Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Bournemouth

by Toondes » Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:02 pm

Just seen laccelles at kings cross on crutches. Didn’t look very mobile

Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Bournemouth

by Remember Colo » Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:44 pm

Speedo wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:05 pm
Don Sholeone wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:02 pm


Rafa was cautious but effective as our manager, the one negative in hindsight is that he convinced us that his way was the only way for us to survive, he downplayed our quality/players far too much which in turn made himself look godlike. Still he did a fantastic job for us in tough circumstances.
Very harsh I think. Yes Rafa was great at controlling the narrative - but look at the evidence, the teams who stay up don’t concede a lot of goals. Defenders win championships etc.

That said - I have really veered between optimism and pessimism with Steve Bruce, but 15 from 12 is a good return. With a fair haul more expected before Christmas.
I also wonder whether Rafa would have supported signing ASM. Maybe it's unfair of me, and Rafa would have loved deploying him on the wing, but he's the most entertaining player to watch we've had in years, and I'm glad he's received the freedom to take on every man on the pitch.

Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Bournemouth

by Colly » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:42 am

The communication was clear though, even through the knackered PA in the East Stand. It's not the first time we've clapped a minutes silence when we've been told it's a silence. Just be silent. It isn't that hard. We do it for 90 minutes after that...

Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Bournemouth

by Don Sholeone » Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:31 am

Colly wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:58 pm
We were clearly told we'd hear the last post, then the ref would blow his whistle to start the minute silence, then another to end it.

What actually happened was the last post, then an inexplicable round of applause from some fuckwits, then the refs whistle triggered another load of fuckwits to assume that was the end of the silence that had yet to happen and cheer for the start of the game. The Bournemouth players even started to jog away until they sheepishly realised and returned to the centre circle. Horrible. Again.
Yeah the whole thing was a bit of a mess, I don't think anyone knew what was happening, the camera even panned to some servicemen joining in on the applause, it seemed to be entirely down to poor communication, the chanting stopped soon as it became apparent it was the start of the minute not the end so I'd put it entirely down to confusion more than anything.

Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Bournemouth

by Sir Bobby » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:21 pm

Colly wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:37 pm
He's building on what Rafa was doing and that's nothing to be ashamed of, and that shouldn't be used as a knock on him.
Pisses me off so much when people claim he’s stealing Rafa’s tactics by playing a widespread formation for a set of players that on the whole were signed to play roughly that formation.

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t.

Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Bournemouth

by Colly » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:58 pm

We were clearly told we'd hear the last post, then the ref would blow his whistle to start the minute silence, then another to end it.

What actually happened was the last post, then an inexplicable round of applause from some fuckwits, then the refs whistle triggered another load of fuckwits to assume that was the end of the silence that had yet to happen and cheer for the start of the game. The Bournemouth players even started to jog away until they sheepishly realised and returned to the centre circle. Horrible. Again.

Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Bournemouth

by Beatski » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:16 pm

Colly wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:42 pm
Oh, and we f***ed up yet another minutes silence. It's getting ridiculous.
How?

Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Bournemouth

by Colly » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:42 pm

Oh, and we f***ed up yet another minutes silence. It's getting ridiculous.

Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Bournemouth

by Colly » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:37 pm

I think it's far too early to be thinking about who's better, but I do think that what I'd hoped would happen is starting to. Rafa left us in a pretty good place, with a system that worked for our squad. He left to get a better deal, he wasn't sacked because what he was doing wasn't working, so there wasn't any need for a great upheaval. Bruce tried something different in the first few games (3 CMs and Almiron off the striker) and it failed pretty miserably, then rightly switched back to the formation that suits us. He's building on what Rafa was doing and that's nothing to be ashamed of, and that shouldn't be used as a knock on him. If he can retain that defensive solidity and get the front three firing we're in a good state.

Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Bournemouth

by Donkey Toon » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:27 pm

ALF wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:47 pm
Bruce is genuinely better than Rafa.
I think he is doing better than Rafa and the football is more enjoyable to watch. So on that basis I agree. In terms of historical achievements in management he obviously isn't.

But as I am not a Rafa fan I'm with you. Nothing has annoyed me more in recent years than the unjustified praise given to Rafa's performance as our manager.

Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Bournemouth

by Donkey Toon » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:21 pm

ALF wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:46 pm
Donkey Toon wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:45 pm
Not a big fan of Gayle but given the chances our front 3 have been getting he'd have scored half a dozen so far this season. Time to give somebody else a try.
He looked slow and overweight in his last appearance, doesn't get into the positions or offer anything at all really.
Who are you referring to, Gayle or Joelinton? :bandit:

Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Bournemouth

by Tsi » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:06 pm

Beatski wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:39 pm
Anyone know the MOTD running order?

Missed the game again so looking forward to watching it. I'm at work though so I'll have to time my break!
Match of the Day starts later tonight at 11pm due to the festival of remembrance on BBC One.

The running order is as follows:
Leicester 2-0 Arsenal

Burnley 3-0 West Ham United

Chelsea 2-0 Crystal Palace

Southampton 1-2 Everton

Newcastle 2-1 Bournemouth

Tottenham 1-1 Sheffield United

Norwich 0-2 Watford

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