Match thread - Arsenal v NUFC

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Re: Match thread - Arsenal v NUFC

by krully » Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:34 pm

Only Siths deal in absolutes...

Re: Match thread - Arsenal v NUFC

by Colly » Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:02 pm

I'm dealing in absolutes? That's literally what you've done, and you've ignored my post about the timescale.

Re: Match thread - Arsenal v NUFC

by PTAO? » Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:53 pm

Colly wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:26 pm
 I don't think anyone is saying Bruce is less defensive or better than Rafa, I just find it ridiculous that apparently Rafa achieved "miracles" with a poor side, while Bruce is supposedly stifling a team of superstars. I feel like I must have missed a couple of transfer windows maybe?
I think your problem is you deal in absolutes. Rafa did a good job with a piss poor team.
Bruce is doing a worse job despite spending more money.

Not sure where you are getting the miracles or superstars from.

Re: Match thread - Arsenal v NUFC

by Valentino's fast feet » Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:33 pm

Colly wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:26 pm
 I don't think anyone is saying Bruce is less defensive or better than Rafa, I just find it ridiculous that apparently Rafa achieved "miracles" with a poor side, while Bruce is supposedly stifling a team of superstars. I feel like I must have missed a couple of transfer windows maybe?
Oh I fully agree with that. From last season to this I'm not sure I would argue we have a better side. ASM is an exciting player but he hasn't the end product given by Perez, despite how hot and cold he could be at times. Joelinton is obviously no replacement for Rondon. Jetro Willems was the best signing we've made this season, and it's just bad luck how that turned out.

Re: Match thread - Arsenal v NUFC

by Colly » Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:26 pm

I don't think anyone is saying Bruce is less defensive or better than Rafa, I just find it ridiculous that apparently Rafa achieved "miracles" with a poor side, while Bruce is supposedly stifling a team of superstars. I feel like I must have missed a couple of transfer windows maybe?

Re: Match thread - Arsenal v NUFC

by Valentino's fast feet » Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:14 pm

Rafa was certainly a defensive manager, but I personally can't see how Bruce's style was any better. Benitez at least had some nous to change things, even just a tweak here and there. The knowledge and wherewithal to use different formations, personel or styles depending on who you played was a big difference between him and Bruce as well. I don't think the 4-0 at Arsenal was as bad as the scoreline indicates, but to use the same side in a very winnable game against Palace, the only team to score less than us in the league, is indefensible to me.

Bruce is an incredibly limited manager who should never have been hired again at this level really, which is not his fault. We've had a few paper over the cracks lucky results here and there but we are a very poor team. If we didn't have Dubravka between the sticks (and I know he has made a few high profile mistakes) we would be well in the s*** right now. For me it's not over exaggerating to say that he's in the top half of premier league goalkeepers, and realistically I'd put him higher than that.

Re: Match thread - Arsenal v NUFC

by The Deluded Pablo Diego Jose Francisco » Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:50 pm

ALF wrote: ↑
Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:55 pm
Colly wrote: ↑
Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:14 pm

Both of those statements can't be true regarding our squad strength.
Yeah it's not true.

We played 5 at the back because we had an overly negative manager who convinced everyone his squad was significantly weaker than it was.
Then by your logic we still have a negative manager now.

Re: Match thread - Arsenal v NUFC

by Colly » Sat Feb 22, 2020 3:26 pm

Literally a bit more, we started playing it regularly in the second half of last season. :/

Unless you're including the odd time in the last few years we played an embarrassing flat back 5 at home against big sides.

Re: Match thread - Arsenal v NUFC

by PTAO? » Sat Feb 22, 2020 3:12 pm

The time from Rafa implementing 5 at the back and now is a bit more than a year...

Re: Match thread - Arsenal v NUFC

by Colly » Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:18 pm

It's arguable as to whether it's improved at all (Perez and Rondon gone, expensive but unproven players in), but to suggest it's gone from "what little strength we had" to "the most talented side we've had in years" in the space of a year is insane.

Re: Match thread - Arsenal v NUFC

by PTAO? » Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:48 pm

Right, our squad hasn't approved at all since Rafa first went with the 5 at the back formation.

Re: Match thread - Arsenal v NUFC

by ALF » Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:55 pm

Colly wrote: ↑
Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:14 pm
PTAO? wrote: ↑
Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:31 pm
 We played 5 at the back because we had a manager who was smart enough to play to what little strengths we had.
Now we have the most talented squad in years but a manager who hasn't got a clue what he's doing.
Both of those statements can't be true regarding our squad strength.
Yeah it's not true.

We played 5 at the back because we had an overly negative manager who convinced everyone his squad was significantly weaker than it was.

Re: Match thread - Arsenal v NUFC

by Colly » Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:14 pm

PTAO? wrote: ↑
Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:31 pm
 We played 5 at the back because we had a manager who was smart enough to play to what little strengths we had.
Now we have the most talented squad in years but a manager who hasn't got a clue what he's doing.
Both of those statements can't be true regarding our squad strength.

Re: Match thread - Arsenal v NUFC

by PTAO? » Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:31 pm

We played 5 at the back because we had a manager who was smart enough to play to what little strengths we had.
Now we have the most talented squad in years but a manager who hasn't got a clue what he's doing.

Re: Match thread - Arsenal v NUFC

by Blue & Maroon » Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:36 pm

ALF wrote: ↑
Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:34 pm
Colly wrote: ↑
Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:33 pm
 Yep, I know I'm a stuck record on this but with Shelvey in the midfield you need 3 centre halfs just to make up for him, with Hayden and someone else who can actually play as a CM we should be fine with 2.
Shelvey can't play in a 2 man midfield with 2 CB's but he should be able to play in a 4-3-3.
He could play 4-4-3 for Hebburn. Sooner we get shot of him the better rather than trying to build something around him.

Re: Match thread - Arsenal v NUFC

by ALF » Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:34 pm

Colly wrote: ↑
Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:33 pm
 Yep, I know I'm a stuck record on this but with Shelvey in the midfield you need 3 centre halfs just to make up for him, with Hayden and someone else who can actually play as a CM we should be fine with 2.
Shelvey can't play in a 2 man midfield with 2 CB's but he should be able to play in a 4-3-3.

Re: Match thread - Arsenal v NUFC

by Colly » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:33 pm

Yep, I know I'm a stuck record on this but with Shelvey in the midfield you need 3 centre halfs just to make up for him, with Hayden and someone else who can actually play as a CM we should be fine with 2.

Re: Match thread - Arsenal v NUFC

by ALF » Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:19 pm

Beatski wrote: ↑
Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:15 pm
 The reason we swapped to a back 5 in the first place was to make up for the shortcomings of our midfield wasn't it?

Lascelles - Lejeune was a great pairing at the back for us
I thought it was because we had an overrated manager who oozed negativity.

But even if it was because the midfield can't play with only 4 men behind them, we've got quality in there now.

Re: Match thread - Arsenal v NUFC

by beatski » Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:15 pm

The reason we swapped to a back 5 in the first place was to make up for the shortcomings of our midfield wasn't it?

Lascelles - Lejeune was a great pairing at the back for us

Re: Match thread - Arsenal v NUFC

by ALF » Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:02 pm

Vaj wrote: ↑
Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:21 am
ALF wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:13 pm

Or any of the FA Cup games.

We've got a team full of international footballers and Steve Bruce is trying to con people into thinking they can't play in a back 4.
Exactly. If everybody was fit there is no reason why we couldn't play something like the following:
Dubravka
Manquillo Lascelles Schar Rose
Hayden Bentaleb
Lazaro Almiron Maximin
Carroll
This would give us the more solid defenders playing but then also give us something going forward. Bentaleb can have a bit more freedom to go forward if he had Hayden next to him and we could even consider pushing Schar into midfield instead of Hayden and playing Lejeune. If he can't get something like that to work as four at the back then he needs to look at himself instead of blaming the players who have probably all played in a system with four at the back and a lot of them are international footballers.
That's without even mentioning Yedlin, Dummett, Clark, Shelvey, both Longstaffs, Joelinton(who could improve with bodies near him) or Ritchie who could all put their name forward for a first team role.

Our squad is the strongest it has been in years.

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