Armstrong and Toney

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Re: Armstrong and Toney

by gola » Mon May 31, 2021 7:21 am

give woodman a season behind dub then hav woodman in from then on. hes real quality and wed be stupid to mess this up

Re: Armstrong and Toney

by bodacious benny » Sat May 29, 2021 2:16 pm

Woodman concedes a penalty in the playoff final and Toney coverts it.

1-0 Brentford.

Re: Armstrong and Toney

by Sanchino » Thu May 27, 2021 12:30 pm

Beatski wrote: ↑
Wed May 26, 2021 4:27 pm
Remember Colo wrote: ↑
Wed May 26, 2021 4:08 pm
Besides, having another option to ASM and Almiron would be good (I suppose Fraser was meant to address that). When either is missing there's a glaring void in the side.
I'd like to see what Murphy can do on the right given his recent form. (Also, Armstrong can play out wide too)
This. Murphy deserves a chance further forward even upfront I'll try him as he'll cause problems with his pace & direct running. I'll eventually like us to love to a 4231 so we can integrate everyone in there natural positions but for us to do that we need a strong, athletic & dominate type midfielder who can control games & take them by the scruff of the neck as I don't trust Shelvey in a 2 man midfield. The current system works perfect because it accommodates everyone & it enables them to turn there limitations into strengths such as Murphy in the RWB position it suits him to a peach as he can use his pace & energy up & down the wing without having to just play as a out and out full-back in a four man defence were you got to concentrate more on defending. Miggy seems more at home in that midfield role were he can have more of the ball, use his hard-working ability to attack & defend box-to-box & use his pace on the counter.. suits Ritchie playing LWB too so he can cross from deep & use his stamina/work-rate to bomb up & down the left-hand side. ASM while not being his natural position looks explosive at times in that striker role were he has freedom to cut inside, go on the outside, inside, twist n turn & take more shots at goals.

We should stick to this formation... just need a Willock replacement or Willock himself to come back & keep the same wing-backs.. maybe Jetro for Ritchie (he's done good but age will eventually catch up to him & he's never been the quickest & Jetro will give us more technical ability, dribbling & pace). A upgrade on Shelvey like Chamberlain/etc would be ideal too.. to partner Hayden & even then a upgrade on Hayden would be great.. but we won't get both this year I'll rather get a upgrade on Shelvey & then the season after on Hayden.. as I think if we want to challenge for the top-half & have European ambitions ( :bandit: ) then we need more quality in the middle.

Re: Armstrong and Toney

by Valentino's fast feet » Wed May 26, 2021 4:46 pm

Part exchange to Brentford if they lose the playoffs for Toney? <laugh>

Re: Armstrong and Toney

by beatski » Wed May 26, 2021 4:27 pm

Remember Colo wrote: ↑
Wed May 26, 2021 4:08 pm
Beatski wrote: ↑
Wed May 26, 2021 4:06 pm

I'd go to 4231 to achieve that, Gets Almiron in his preferred position too (or you could play Armstrong there...)
Besides, having another option to ASM and Almiron would be good (I suppose Fraser was meant to address that). When either is missing there's a glaring void in the side.
I'd like to see what Murphy can do on the right given his recent form. (Also, Armstrong can play out wide too)

Re: Armstrong and Toney

by Remember Colo » Wed May 26, 2021 4:08 pm

Beatski wrote: ↑
Wed May 26, 2021 4:06 pm
lassassinblanc wrote: ↑
Wed May 26, 2021 3:26 pm
 Yeah our wing backs have moved to being more advanced and attacking in last few months. We play more of 3-4-2-1 at times. Now I'll probably get called out for this but maybe putting Saint Maximin into one of those wing back/wide roles might work wonders, he does most of his damage when he picks up the ball deep and runs at the opposition.
I'd go to 4231 to achieve that, Gets Almiron in his preferred position too (or you could play Armstrong there...)
Besides, having another option to ASM and Almiron would be good (I suppose Fraser was meant to address that). When either is missing there's a glaring void in the side.

Re: Armstrong and Toney

by beatski » Wed May 26, 2021 4:06 pm

lassassinblanc wrote: ↑
Wed May 26, 2021 3:26 pm
 Yeah our wing backs have moved to being more advanced and attacking in last few months. We play more of 3-4-2-1 at times. Now I'll probably get called out for this but maybe putting Saint Maximin into one of those wing back/wide roles might work wonders, he does most of his damage when he picks up the ball deep and runs at the opposition.
I'd go to 4231 to achieve that, Gets Almiron in his preferred position too (or you could play Armstrong there...)

Re: Armstrong and Toney

by lassassinblanc » Wed May 26, 2021 3:26 pm

Yeah our wing backs have moved to being more advanced and attacking in last few months. We play more of 3-4-2-1 at times. Now I'll probably get called out for this but maybe putting Saint Maximin into one of those wing back/wide roles might work wonders, he does most of his damage when he picks up the ball deep and runs at the opposition.

Re: Armstrong and Toney

by bodacious benny » Wed May 26, 2021 7:40 am

Yeah the formation works if it’s attacking wing backs as we’ve been playing since Ritchie came back into the team, and Murphy on the right.

It’s a horrendous formation when it’s Dummett and Krafth as we’re basically playing 5 central defenders and usually 2 defensive minded midfielders, so whenever we attack it’s literally 2 or 3 players trying to do it all on their own. If we stick with attacking fullbacks I don’t mind the formation. Most of our centre backs also seem more comfortable in a back three.

Re: Armstrong and Toney

by ALF » Tue May 25, 2021 9:49 pm

Remember Colo wrote: ↑
Tue May 25, 2021 9:15 pm
ALF wrote: ↑
Tue May 25, 2021 8:29 pm
 If we were to sign Armstrong it can't be as a back up. We'd need to move away from the 5-3-2 and play a more forward thinking formation.
Is the formation the issue, or how it's executed? That formation can have attacking intent depending on how everyone plays their roles.
It's been alright recently to be fair. Like CIH said he could play the ASM role but in an ideal world we keep him.

Re: Armstrong and Toney

by Valentino's fast feet » Tue May 25, 2021 9:47 pm

In this current formation wouldn't he suit the role ASM has been playing? I can only see us paying a decent amount for a striker if we cashed in on maxi.

Re: Armstrong and Toney

by Remember Colo » Tue May 25, 2021 9:15 pm

ALF wrote: ↑
Tue May 25, 2021 8:29 pm
 If we were to sign Armstrong it can't be as a back up. We'd need to move away from the 5-3-2 and play a more forward thinking formation.
Is the formation the issue, or how it's executed? That formation can have attacking intent depending on how everyone plays their roles.

Re: Armstrong and Toney

by ALF » Tue May 25, 2021 8:29 pm

If we were to sign Armstrong it can't be as a back up. We'd need to move away from the 5-3-2 and play a more forward thinking formation.

Re: Armstrong and Toney

by bodacious benny » Sat May 22, 2021 1:34 pm

Another pen for Toney today to help take Brentford to the playoff final.

Re: Armstrong and Toney

by gola » Thu May 13, 2021 8:06 am

always said we shudnt hav got rid of either players, u cud see there potential and i called it. right about joelinton too there mate, hes definitely improved n found his feet last few monts can only hope he carrys on cos hes startin to look capable

Re: Armstrong and Toney

by Sanchino » Mon May 10, 2021 7:56 am

Don Sholeone wrote: ↑
Sun May 09, 2021 3:44 pm
 I think Armstrong is a perfect replacement for Gayle, my only worry is the club being stubborn and not wanting to pay for someone we sold for 1-2m only a few seasons ago, but with the reported 40% sell on clause we have a massive advantage and would be stupid not to put £9-10m on the table.
This. Even if Gayle stays.. Armstrong, Gayle, Joelinton is great strength in depth. Basically more of a Carroll replacement (obvs diff style of play). Armstrong is quick, technically gifted, versatile (can play no.10/out-wide or no.9) & hard-working. He's 24 only with bags of potential.. I think by the time he reaches his peak (27 - 29) he'll be a established Prem striker and I hope it's with us. The worst thing would be to see him playing in Europe & smashing it with West Ham next season. <urgh>

I would like Toney too but he's out of our reach I think? How much is his value now.. I have a feeling West Ham will pounce for either Toney or Armstrong. Mid 20s, English & yet to hit there peaks. Imagine we kept them both instead of spending 40mil on a average Brazilian second striker*.. what a frontline we would have <love>

*Saying this.. Joelinton has had a much improved season. He's decent & there's defo a player in there but just not worth 40mil.. if we paid 10-15mil I don't think people would care or get onto him as much.. even 20mil at most but 40mil was a joke.

Say if Brentford got promoted.. would they accept 15-20mil +Joelinton for Toney to come back? <whistle>

Re: Armstrong and Toney

by Don Sholeone » Sun May 09, 2021 3:44 pm

I think Armstrong is a perfect replacement for Gayle, my only worry is the club being stubborn and not wanting to pay for someone we sold for 1-2m only a few seasons ago, but with the reported 40% sell on clause we have a massive advantage and would be stupid not to put £9-10m on the table.

Re: Armstrong and Toney

by Speedo » Sun May 09, 2021 3:42 pm

CIH wrote: ↑
Sun May 09, 2021 1:01 pm
 Blackburn's manager has come out and essentially said Armstrong is for sale. Come and give us money so we can rebuild our squad. Reports that he'd cost "only" 16m, plenty of prem clubs would take the gamble at that price. 29 goals this season. West Ham strongly linked as well of us. Would be a more realistic alternative to Abraham. If we continue with the current formation, he could provide cover/rotation with both Wilson and ASM as no doubt both will be out at times to injury.
Plus he’s cost us like 20% less because of his sell on clause. Would be a great signing IMO, Wilson, Gayle and Armstrong would be great strength in depth.

Re: Armstrong and Toney

by Valentino's fast feet » Sun May 09, 2021 1:01 pm

Blackburn's manager has come out and essentially said Armstrong is for sale. Come and give us money so we can rebuild our squad. Reports that he'd cost "only" 16m, plenty of prem clubs would take the gamble at that price. 29 goals this season. West Ham strongly linked as well of us. Would be a more realistic alternative to Abraham. If we continue with the current formation, he could provide cover/rotation with both Wilson and ASM as no doubt both will be out at times to injury.

Re: Armstrong and Toney

by ALF » Thu May 06, 2021 4:02 pm

Colly wrote: ↑
Mon May 03, 2021 11:06 am
ALF wrote: ↑
Sun May 02, 2021 6:14 pm

Murphy did well but who's to say Mitrovic wouldn't have done better? His minutes per goal/assist ratio that season was incredible.

'We only just won the league' isn't a defence, we should have walked that league. It was probably the best squad to ever be relegated.

Armstrong probably was ready back then. Truth is we won't ever know. He'd just scored 20 goals in League One, natural progression means he deserved a chance in the Championship. Spending the best part of 3 years at newly promoted clubs meant he got minimal service and was playing in poor sides. Giving him decent minutes from the bench and occasionally from the start in the best team in the league might have got him to his current standard a lot sooner. Instead we inexplicably played Diame in attacking midfield and Murphy got minutes up front.
I think again this just comes down to issues with Rafa in general. He'd already decided against Mitrovic by the time we started that season, and I distinctly remember him warming up multiple times away at Barnsley but never coming on. He was a cult hero with the fans by that point, and I don't think Rafa liked that. The fact that we scraped the title sums up that season for me in comparison to Hughton walking it.

I still see Murphy as a sensible experienced signing though.
Listening to this weeks episode of That Peter Crouch Podcast, Crouch talks about how he scored 2 before half time against Birmingham. He said to Rafa at half time he was feeling the hat trick and begged him to stay on (and Rafa agreed) only for Rafa to take him off 10 minutes into the second half. I'm sure another player has spoken about how he hated players getting hat tricks.

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