Match thread - Newcastle v Chelsea

by **Slim999** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:58 pm

I now begin to understand why my Sunderland fan mates told me that things will gradually deterioate under Bruce....

Like Allerdyce and one or two others I can think of - he's à reactive manager - tries to reshape his team to subdue the opponent.

No problem with this - as long as you remember where the opponents goal is ..

When he mentioned a few weeks back that he's left out Almiron to get "more physical presence " in the side, - it sent a cold shiver down my spine

Dinasour

by **Remember Colo** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:01 pm

Colly wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:16 pm
I'll be honest, barring marginally more defensive organisation (Rafa still went for "I need loads of defenders because I've convinced them they're s**** ") I don't think there's actually that much difference between the two as Newcastle managers. That's no defense of Bruce though.

Seconded. And people will likely say "Well he didn't have talent like ASM at his disposal." Except he probably wouldn't have bought him to begin with.

by **UlversToon** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:27 pm

I see it's being reported that Alex Bruce has hung up his boots and retired, I wonder if he could persuade his dad to do the same.

by **Colly** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:16 pm

I'll be honest, barring marginally more defensive organisation (Rafa still went for "I need loads of defenders because I've convinced them they're s**** ") I don't think there's actually that much difference between the two as Newcastle managers. That's no defense of Bruce though.

by **Captain Obvious** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:13 pm

Rafa was building something for sure. You always build from the back. We were steadily improving, and we had a plan. 5 at the back with ball playing centre-halves, and industrious midfield and a big man up top supported by Perez and Almiron.

Steve Bruce is, and I cannot stress this enough, completely clueless. There is no plan and he doesn't really know what he's doing. I'm not the biggest Jonjo fan but you can't not play him and then play Clark, Lascelles and Fernandez. You just can't. Hayden sure as hell doesn't want the ball, a hard-working defensive midfielder sure. And Sean Longstaff covers a lot of ground, but he's not got the range of passing of Jonjo. You've essentially got no-one in the team who actually wants the ball, bar your wingers. Bruce has just thrown 11 people into a formation and hoped for the best. That, for me, is the difference between Bruce and Rafa.

by **bodacious benny** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:08 pm

Listening to phone-ins, the pundits counter argument to anyone speaking out against Bruce is that 'well he got pretty much the same points as Rafa' despite losing Rondon and Perez who got more than 50% of our goals in his final season. While that's true, and on paper the points are okay and he kept us up comfortably last season, it's short-sighted.

Yes Rafa was very defensive, but at least that was his plan and we were good at it. We were one of the best defences outside the top 6 for a couple of seasons under Rafa. Everybody was organised and everybody knew their job on the pitch. Like under Bruce, we rarely saw decent attacking or possession based football, though the second half of Rafa's final season did seem to bring more goals. Under Bruce we're nothing. We're not good at attacking, we're awful at defending, we're not good in possession, we're not good out of possession, we're not good at trying to contain, we're not good at pressing, it's just put 11 players on the pitch and see what happens. If we were at least good defensively you could say 'okay, well that's his plan and how he wants to play and we're good at it'.

by **Remember Colo** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:26 am

Bodacious Benny wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:46 pm
Second half I didn’t think we were that bad yesterday against a very good team who will be challenging for the title. First half was embarrassing how much we sat back and let them ping the ball about at will. We should have been pressing them from the off but did nothing.

It did improve in the second half and we made a couple of chances. How much of that was us being better and how much was them being tired as their entire team had been away on international duty is up for question.

The entirety of the Southampton match, Spurs and Wolves were far worse overall than yesterday. Tho being able to list 3 awful performances in 9 games, 4 if we add Brighton to the list show how big the issue is. These performances aren’t happening in isolation, they’re frequent and nothing is done to change it. On the pitch the players look like they’ve got no idea what they’re supposed to be doing and there’s no drive on the pitch. The entire team look resigned to being s*** and it shouldn’t be that way. We have good enough players to be trying to do more than whatever it is that Bruce sets us out to do.

Palace next. A team low on creativity and goals usually. You can guarantee they’ll have most possession, far more attempts than us and we’ll sit deep with 10 men behind the ball most of the game.

Tend to agree. I fell asleep in the first half (keep in mind the match started at 7:30am here), but there was nothing to keep me awake. Did wake up again in time for the second half and thought we were at least competitive. Which annoys me more than anything because it shows they can show a bit more initiative when directed to - and just wish they'd start matches that way. The passive, defensive approach never does us any favours, and I wish for the first time in more than a decade we'd have a clear and decisive playing style that would demonstrate some aggression and pressure.

by **krully** » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:58 pm

They'll have 65% possession and have Roy schooling Bruce in how to defend. Watch that useless, clueless moron say they're a big club

by **bodacious benny** » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:46 pm

Second half I didn’t think we were that bad yesterday against a very good team who will be challenging for the title. First half was embarrassing how much we sat back and let them ping the ball about at will. We should have been pressing them from the off but did nothing.

It did improve in the second half and we made a couple of chances. How much of that was us being better and how much was them being tired as their entire team had been away on international duty is up for question.

The entirety of the Southampton match, Spurs and Wolves were far worse overall than yesterday. Tho being able to list 3 awful performances in 9 games, 4 if we add Brighton to the list show how big the issue is. These performances aren’t happening in isolation, they’re frequent and nothing is done to change it. On the pitch the players look like they’ve got no idea what they’re supposed to be doing and there’s no drive on the pitch. The entire team look resigned to being s*** and it shouldn’t be that way. We have good enough players to be trying to do more than whatever it is that Bruce sets us out to do.

Palace next. A team low on creativity and goals usually. You can guarantee they’ll have most possession, far more attempts than us and we’ll sit deep with 10 men behind the ball most of the game.

by **Colly** » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:25 am

I switched off long before Humphrey did any talking, but I do find it funny how game after game (they've definitely had more than one of ours) the BT Sport commentary team start the game with "the fans remember Kevin Keegan and want that" and then gradually are ground down to Steve Mcmanaman laughing at how our attacking throw ins end up with our own goalkeeper. The penny will drop one day.

by **PTAO?** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:41 pm

Rafa out

by **Valentino's fast feet** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:55 pm

omegaprimevkm wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:55 pm

originallad wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:51 pm
I honestly don't think we were THAT bad. Maybe I missed the Southampton match thread where everyone was trying nooses after the game. I watched that match though and we were shocking, like literally the worst I've seen us play in eons! Some people say we are getting worse. No. We're not, this was better, still wasn't good, but there were glimpses of some sort of effort there today.
Jake Humphrey was forced to point out we don't expect Champions League or whatever rubbish the majority of the media believes - it's merely a good game of exciting football we're after.

I don't watch a lot of the coverage in general, usually for good reason, but I've seen a bit of Humphrey in the past - he seems to stick up for us a fair bit in that kind of situation. This idea that we are baying for title challenges, champions league qualification or whatever seems to be a purely media-fueled fabrication. Obviously stuff like twitter will always have the odd nob, but every club has them. Seems to be that this kind of person speaks the true mind of all "geordie" fans.

It's like there's 10 Danny Simpsons outfield...backing off every attacking opposition player perpetually.

Premier league winner Danny Simpson?

I don't have a point there, just taking the michael.

Overall, I agree with what you are saying. We are in the position we are in by virtue of other teams being absolute dog trifle. We are playing abominable football, to the point where it's stretching the definition of generous to even call it football. Bruce is not up to it at this level as a manager, he hasn't been for a decade or so. He's just the guy most desperate to chug down the poison chalice and take it on. The last time we had a dour English manager that played s**** football, was backed well in the transfer market yet seemed to be taking us no place but down - we ended up sacking him and getting in Benitez. Which was a shock to say the least. I don't think we'll be as surprised this time around, but we do need to get rid of Bruce. Everything is awful. Some of the other teams have been godawful this season so far, but all they need to do is string a few results together and get things to click into place. We'll soon be dragged into it, we all know Bruce hasn't the capability or maybe the desire to change things up and evolve.

Someone previously mentioned Potter and Brighton. They are no better than us in terms of playing staff- and on paper I'd argue we have stronger players in most departments. They don't go into home games hoping for a 1-0 defeat. I feel at times even a 0-0 draw is too ambitious for Bruce.

by **omegaprimevkm** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:55 pm

originallad wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:51 pm
I honestly don't think we were THAT bad. Maybe I missed the Southampton match thread where everyone was trying nooses after the game. I watched that match though and we were shocking, like literally the worst I've seen us play in eons! Some people say we are getting worse. No. We're not, this was better, still wasn't good, but there were glimpses of some sort of effort there today.

On the contrary. We were piss poor again. Not competitive, hoping to batten down the hatches and not play a competitive game of football. It's sickening. Jake Humphrey was forced to point out we don't expect Champions League or whatever rubbish the majority of the media believes - it's merely a good game of exciting football we're after. We shouldn't be comprehensively beaten by the likes of Brighton and Southampton. This was Chelsea's second win at SJP in 8 years...it was pedestrian. Opposition teams are able to get the ball 2/3 the way up the pitch in a third the time it takes NUFC to do the same. Darlow's overworked, Longstaff's a passenger, not involved. Joelinton needs to be loaned to the Championship, or sold for £10m to some overspenders in Turkey. Ashley needs to write off that 20m he claimed he'd fund from his own pocket and give it back to the club. I'd rather play Matt Titchie up front - he's not 6ft2 but he knows where the f***ing net is and if he was told he was playing up front, he'd know what that means.

Some of the BBC quotes from the match reporter regarding the first half today:

"So, Newcastle have had 15% of possession so far. If you're new to this, that is not good"
"How early and how low a scoreline can you get out the Simpsons 'stop, he's already dead!' gif?"
"The way this is going, Newcastle might not get another kick, let alone a chance"

There's an awful lot of ostriching going on again around these parts. At what point does a bulbous and ungainly vegetable need to be thrown so that the message is clear to those above that Mrs Doubtfire isn't up to the job? Does he even run sessions looking at pressing, recycling the ball against defensive opposition, creating space in the pitch? It's like there's 10 Danny Simpsons outfield...backing off every attacking opposition player perpetually.

by **originallad** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:51 pm

I honestly don't think we were THAT bad. Maybe I missed the Southampton match thread where everyone was trying nooses after the game. I watched that match though and we were shocking, like literally the worst I've seen us play in eons! Some people say we are getting worse. No. We're not, this was better, still wasn't good, but there were glimpses of some sort of effort there today.

by **Valentino's fast feet** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:42 pm

Speedo wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:19 pm
Sometimes I wonder why I so regularly do something that makes me this miserable.

Apparently insanity is doing the same act repeatedly and expecting different results. So clearly we are all a little bit mad

by **ALF** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:33 pm

He's got to go.

by **seatonsluicetoon** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:21 pm

I sit there screaming at my computer every week as I watch us knock it around the defence only to get pressured into passing it back to the keeper who lumps it up to the opposition to start playing again. I don’t know why I’m wasting my weekends but I can’t look away! The number of times we had the ball on the wing in the final third today and it somehow ended up back with Darlow instead of in their box. It’s so frustrating and there’s no pressure available from the supporters to jolt the players into doing anything different. Anyone with a shred of talent will be gone come Jan.

by **Blue & Maroon** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:51 pm

Very glad I didn't tune in

by **bodacious benny** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:03 pm

Bruce is lucky that there’s no fans as there would be a lot of hostility coming his way. I’m sure he’s a nice bloke which all the pundits say he is, but we are dreadful and he’s got no ideas how to fix it. Complete lack of energy or motivation from the players, most had a 2 week break and should have hunted down Chelsea from kick off as most of their team had been away on international duty but we just sat deep (as ever) and let them knock the ball around and open us up. That’ll be the easiest away game they’ll have all season.

by **Sanchino** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:49 pm

Speedo wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:19 pm
Sometimes I wonder why I so regularly do something that makes me this miserable.

I ask myself this most times we play.

Wouldn't be Newcastle United would it?

Seriously though Bruce needs to go if these performances continue sooner rather than later our luck will turn around and those lucky wins/draws will start turning into loses and by the time you know we're in the bottom three, Miggy / ASM will go in the summer, we get relegated and we become 5under1and..

God forbid. We need to wake up and smell the roses. #BruceOut. Tactical disaster. Inept. Dinosaur. Too negative. Too defensive.

We have the players (on form) to play a decent brand of attacking football, it doesn't have to be about possession but being more positive & being on the front foot. We are not expecting results against the top 4/6.. but if we are going to play like that we might aswell forfeit and give them the three points without playing. Leeds have shown that even with a limited amount of talented players & without having riches to spend in the transfer market you can still field a balanced unit & push forwards be expansive, be attacking and most importantly play with courage / bravery and confidence. Yes you may concede while your at it but it's better than watching us getting dominated and losing 0-4.. why not go for it and if you lose 6-3 or 5-3 or 4-1 then so be it. We need a fearless approach but with Bruce we're never going to get that and all Ashely cares about is ending 17th regardless of the dross we have to put up with. It's really sad to see how things are going.. s*** manager, s*** tactics, s*** motivation, s*** man management and s*** mindset.

Match thread - Newcastle v Chelsea

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