by Remember Colo » Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:30 pm
Don Sholeone wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:17 pm
Donkey Toon wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:28 pm
I get the argument that everybody is making but ...
The difference in this case is, I think, that in most cases of points deduction they result from administrative or financial penalties arising from bad management where the fans have no input for or against, not due to their fault, but they are not part of any solution either.
In this case the fans of the six clubs stood in violent opposition to something that would have damaged all of football and all other clubs. I think a very strong case can be made that the opposition of the fans was the biggest surprise to the 6 owners (although it shouldn't have been if they'd known football as well as they should) and was a major factor in them not proceeding with the project. After all opposition from other clubs, fans, media and footballing authorities would have been totally expected and they would have been prepared to fight it out (otherwise why bother proceeding at all). But I think they knew they needed their fans support and not getting it was key to if failing. I just think that that needs to be recognised as a significant factor that justifies leniency towards the fans in this instance.
But throw the book at the owners. Be as petty and vindictive as possible and make them pay. Although pushing through ownership reform and safety measures to make sure it can never happen again would be my priority.
100% disagree, even Klopp himself practically attacked the fans just for taking down their banners at anfield so why would FSG have a different viewpoint? also fans were protesting at the same time these arseholes were making statements about legal proceedings, not to mention the executives stating that these people are "legacy fans" and the focus is bringing new fans to the ESL. Fans have been protesting for years at some of these clubs so the assumption that they are suddenly bothered about fans is way off the mark, especially since this was worth billions to these owners.
The reason they stepped down was simply because of threats at a government level. Taking on the PL, Uefa and FIFA is one thing but fighting government would have been suicide.
But the only reason governments were going to act against them is because of fans. But lets be clear when saying that, because fans just represent money, to everyone involved: the owners, leagues, governments, banks, broadcasters, etc. And the public backlash from let's be frank, customers, ruined the value of the whole proposition. And also, the level of backlash was going to provide the support UEFA, FIFA, or FA would need to truly wield some discipline. If fans didn't reject it all to the degree they did, those bodies wouldn't have had the necessary leverage. So did the owners do it out of the goodness of their heart to appease their supporters? Absolutely not, but because it made more financial sense and there were real ramifications to fear.
[quote="Don Sholeone" post_id=887498 time=1619029059 user_id=188]
[quote="Donkey Toon" post_id=887494 time=1619008084 user_id=69]
I get the argument that everybody is making but ...
The difference in this case is, I think, that in most cases of points deduction they result from administrative or financial penalties arising from bad management where the fans have no input for or against, not due to their fault, but they are not part of any solution either.
[b]In this case the fans of the six clubs stood in violent opposition to something that would have damaged all of football and all other clubs. I think a very strong case can be made that the opposition of the fans was the biggest surprise to the 6 owners[/b] (although it shouldn't have been if they'd known football as well as they should) and was a major factor in them not proceeding with the project. After all opposition from other clubs, fans, media and footballing authorities would have been totally expected and they would have been prepared to fight it out (otherwise why bother proceeding at all). But I think they knew they needed their fans support and not getting it was key to if failing. I just think that that needs to be recognised as a significant factor that justifies leniency towards the fans in this instance.
But throw the book at the owners. Be as petty and vindictive as possible and make them pay. Although pushing through ownership reform and safety measures to make sure it can never happen again would be my priority.
[/quote]
100% disagree, even Klopp himself practically attacked the fans just for taking down their banners at anfield so why would FSG have a different viewpoint? also fans were protesting at the same time these arseholes were making statements about legal proceedings, not to mention the executives stating that these people are "legacy fans" and the focus is bringing new fans to the ESL. Fans have been protesting for years at some of these clubs so the assumption that they are suddenly bothered about fans is way off the mark, especially since this was worth billions to these owners.
The reason they stepped down was simply because of threats at a government level. Taking on the PL, Uefa and FIFA is one thing but fighting government would have been suicide.
[/quote]
But the only reason governments were going to act against them is because of fans. But lets be clear when saying that, because fans just represent money, to everyone involved: the owners, leagues, governments, banks, broadcasters, etc. And the public backlash from let's be frank, customers, ruined the value of the whole proposition. And also, the level of backlash was going to provide the support UEFA, FIFA, or FA would need to truly wield some discipline. If fans didn't reject it all to the degree they did, those bodies wouldn't have had the necessary leverage. So did the owners do it out of the goodness of their heart to appease their supporters? Absolutely not, but because it made more financial sense and there were real ramifications to fear.
