Match day thread: Newcastle v West Ham

Post a reply


This question is a means of preventing automated form submissions by spambots.

BBCode is ON
[img] is OFF
[flash] is OFF
[url] is ON
Smilies are OFF

Topic review
   

Expand view Topic review: Match day thread: Newcastle v West Ham

Re: Match day thread: Newcastle v West Ham

by Don Sholeone » Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:30 pm

ALF wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:38 pm
Don Sholeone wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:43 pm
I've always been baffled when we have Hayden in that role, they are basically asking him to play Willocks role despite him having none of the attributes to play it. I think it pretty much says everything about our midfield, there isn't anyone else who can play a forward thinking role effectively, I wouldn't be surprised to see Hayden leaving if we are to bring in another midfielder, think him and Hendrick don't have any place in this current team.
Both Longstaffs are more than capable as attack minded midfielders. Even Hendrick is more suited to that role than Hayden. It's like Hayden is 3rd in the midfield ranking behind Shelvey and Almiron (also playing out of position) and because of that he gets played without any thought about the role he's being asked to play.
They can probably do a better job than Hayden but I don't think the difference would be huge, and certainly not to the level of Willock. I would like to see Sean more in that role when needed though, he does play his better stuff when he doesn't have too much of a defensive responsibility, I actually think he becomes a liability when asked to cover defensively as he doesn't seem to have the concentration for it, so a role where he can just focus on going forward would be good for him imo. Unfortunately I don't think he can do that in our system especially now that we have Willock.

I think Sean still can come good, but to be honest if the Everton rumours are true and we can get a fair price for him I wouldn't be too gutted if he left (and we were to reinvest the money). As for Matty I don't think we can really judge him for what little we have seen, he's definitely in need of a loan though imo. As for Hendrick the less said about him, the better.

Re: Match day thread: Newcastle v West Ham

by ALF » Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:38 pm

Don Sholeone wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:43 pm
I've always been baffled when we have Hayden in that role, they are basically asking him to play Willocks role despite him having none of the attributes to play it. I think it pretty much says everything about our midfield, there isn't anyone else who can play a forward thinking role effectively, I wouldn't be surprised to see Hayden leaving if we are to bring in another midfielder, think him and Hendrick don't have any place in this current team.
Both Longstaffs are more than capable as attack minded midfielders. Even Hendrick is more suited to that role than Hayden. It's like Hayden is 3rd in the midfield ranking behind Shelvey and Almiron (also playing out of position) and because of that he gets played without any thought about the role he's being asked to play.

Re: Match day thread: Newcastle v West Ham

by Don Sholeone » Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:43 pm

I've always been baffled when we have Hayden in that role, they are basically asking him to play Willocks role despite him having none of the attributes to play it. I think it pretty much says everything about our midfield, there isn't anyone else who can play a forward thinking role effectively, I wouldn't be surprised to see Hayden leaving if we are to bring in another midfielder, think him and Hendrick don't have any place in this current team.

Re: Match day thread: Newcastle v West Ham

by ALF » Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:48 pm

Thought Woodman did well, nothing he could have done about any of the goals. Saved a penalty and made a good save from Bowen but had zero protection from a non existent defence. Weren't 3 of the goals from inside the 6 yard box?

Shelvey wasn't out worst player but it showed how limited he is. Offers zero protection to the defence and got booked for a stupid challenge. He looked alright at points but in general he is nowhere near PL standard.

Hayden as an attacking midfielder was an unwanted throwback to last season. Abysmal going forward.

There's definitely attacking potential in that side but we need to tighten it up at the back. The defence were clueless, permanently switching off and losing their men and not doing the basics.

Re: Match day thread: Newcastle v West Ham

by bodacious benny » Mon Aug 16, 2021 3:09 pm

What odds he does a complete 180 v Villa and we sit with 10 men behind the ball for 90 mins...

Re: Match day thread: Newcastle v West Ham

by Remember Colo » Mon Aug 16, 2021 2:38 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:07 pm
Remember Colo wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:01 pm

I thought I read that Schar wasn't ready to play 90 minutes so didn't start (I took s*** from a fellow fan who said players are too weak and should be ready to play, but I would presume it was a coaching/trainer decision, not him asking not to start). But given the Lascelles benching, it felt more like Bruce wanted to play the same back line that finished last season. Which is a giant pet peave of mine - it's bad enough when a manager repeatedly uses the same XI (instead of best XI or best to face the opposition) waiting for a bad performance to make a change - but to potentially do that months later, when it's obviously not your 3 best CBs is assinine.
Yeah that's one of Bruce's favourite tricks, if something has worked once then it must automatically work the next time. I don't dislike the formation he favours, but definitely strange selections / player instructions in a few areas.

Re: Schar, presumably he was one of the later ones back after playing in the Euros so not surprised either that he didn't start. Whether he was fit enough or not, obviously everyone needs a rest/break at some point regardless of their job.
Completely agree regarding Schar. This other person just referenced a quote from Richarlison, but I was annoyed at the idea that when managers ease players late to training back into starting lineups - that it's up to the players saying they're not ready and don't want to play. When it's far more likely the coaching and training staff have assessed risk to the players getting injured, or inability to perform at the level necessary for long enough to make starting them a reasonable option.

But completely agree. Bruce feels especially guilty of running out the exact same lineup following what he deems a decent performance, until a performance is so bad he can justify changes. Don't get me wrong, you have to reward players for good play, but we didn't even defend particularly well to finish last season, so there's no way he should believe that was the best back line available to him, especially with multiple players out of their natural positions (Krafth isn't a CB, and I'll continue arguing Richie isn't a WB).

Re: Match day thread: Newcastle v West Ham

by bodacious benny » Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:07 pm

Remember Colo wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:01 pm
Bodacious Benny wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:08 am


Surely Lascelles must have been carrying an injury or something has gone on behind the scenes? The back three were shocking, well not just them, the entire defensive unit.

Though I thought that Shelvey was far from our worst players yesterday. In midfield, Almiron was back to his headless chicken routine of lots of running without doing anything.

I've still no idea what happened at HT (other than Bruce). We were playing a good press in the first half, creating plenty of chances, yes they had chances too but I thought we deservedly went in ahead at the break. Then just a massive collapse early in the second half and it could have been about 2-6 come the end of the game.
I thought I read that Schar wasn't ready to play 90 minutes so didn't start (I took s*** from a fellow fan who said players are too weak and should be ready to play, but I would presume it was a coaching/trainer decision, not him asking not to start). But given the Lascelles benching, it felt more like Bruce wanted to play the same back line that finished last season. Which is a giant pet peave of mine - it's bad enough when a manager repeatedly uses the same XI (instead of best XI or best to face the opposition) waiting for a bad performance to make a change - but to potentially do that months later, when it's obviously not your 3 best CBs is assinine.
Yeah that's one of Bruce's favourite tricks, if something has worked once then it must automatically work the next time. I don't dislike the formation he favours, but definitely strange selections / player instructions in a few areas.

Re: Schar, presumably he was one of the later ones back after playing in the Euros so not surprised either that he didn't start. Whether he was fit enough or not, obviously everyone needs a rest/break at some point regardless of their job.

Re: Match day thread: Newcastle v West Ham

by Remember Colo » Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:01 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:08 am
Speedo wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:14 pm
Just watched the game, having avoided all info etc til now.

Back three of Clark, Fernandez and Krafth is asking for trouble. I do not understand why Lascelles (and imo Schär, but I know that’s more controversial) was not starting. Mad.

Shelvey was bang average as always. Woodman was OK but exposed. Ritchie had a severe off day, one assist aside.

So disappointing
Surely Lascelles must have been carrying an injury or something has gone on behind the scenes? The back three were shocking, well not just them, the entire defensive unit.

Though I thought that Shelvey was far from our worst players yesterday. In midfield, Almiron was back to his headless chicken routine of lots of running without doing anything.

I've still no idea what happened at HT (other than Bruce). We were playing a good press in the first half, creating plenty of chances, yes they had chances too but I thought we deservedly went in ahead at the break. Then just a massive collapse early in the second half and it could have been about 2-6 come the end of the game.
I thought I read that Schar wasn't ready to play 90 minutes so didn't start (I took s*** from a fellow fan who said players are too weak and should be ready to play, but I would presume it was a coaching/trainer decision, not him asking not to start). But given the Lascelles benching, it felt more like Bruce wanted to play the same back line that finished last season. Which is a giant pet peave of mine - it's bad enough when a manager repeatedly uses the same XI (instead of best XI or best to face the opposition) waiting for a bad performance to make a change - but to potentially do that months later, when it's obviously not your 3 best CBs is assinine.

Re: Match day thread: Newcastle v West Ham

by lassassinblanc » Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:24 am

Hayden had an OK first half got into the box and complented the attack (a role I'd imagine Willock will play).

Shelvey had a good game I thought. Recycled the ball well and got the ball forward when he could and had the option to do so.

ASM had one of his off days too tried too much instead of the simple pass cost us a goal and could have cost more.

Ritchie is great going forward but really lacks any defensive brain at fault for two of the goals.

Re: Match day thread: Newcastle v West Ham

by Cal » Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:06 am

Colback's Orange Tufts wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:49 am
Bodacious Benny wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:34 am


You'd hope that next match Willock will presumably be fulfilling that get forward in attack/support role and Hayden will be shielding the back four. Hopefully Lascelles back too to give us some actual presence in defence.
Maybe. Bruce seems to love Shelvey deeper (less pressing so he has more time on the ball?) and I imagine he'll stay there....
Take it a step further, bring back the Shelvey libero. 8)

Re: Match day thread: Newcastle v West Ham

by Colback's Orange Tufts » Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:49 am

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:34 am
Colback's Orange Tufts wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:22 am


Agree on Almiron. Shelvey wasn't the worst and I thought Hayden was worst. I feel bad, played out of position and he suffers, as do the back line by having no protection.
You'd hope that next match Willock will presumably be fulfilling that get forward in attack/support role and Hayden will be shielding the back four. Hopefully Lascelles back too to give us some actual presence in defence.
Maybe. Bruce seems to love Shelvey deeper (less pressing so he has more time on the ball?) and I imagine he'll stay there....

Re: Match day thread: Newcastle v West Ham

by bodacious benny » Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:34 am

Colback's Orange Tufts wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:22 am
Bodacious Benny wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:08 am

Though I thought that Shelvey was far from our worst players yesterday. In midfield, Almiron was back to his headless chicken routine of lots of running without doing anything.
Agree on Almiron. Shelvey wasn't the worst and I thought Hayden was worst. I feel bad, played out of position and he suffers, as do the back line by having no protection.
You'd hope that next match Willock will presumably be fulfilling that get forward in attack/support role and Hayden will be shielding the back four. Hopefully Lascelles back too to give us some actual presence in defence.

Re: Match day thread: Newcastle v West Ham

by Colback's Orange Tufts » Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:22 am

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:08 am

Though I thought that Shelvey was far from our worst players yesterday. In midfield, Almiron was back to his headless chicken routine of lots of running without doing anything.
Agree on Almiron. Shelvey wasn't the worst and I thought Hayden was worst. I feel bad, played out of position and he suffers, as do the back line by having no protection.

Re: Match day thread: Newcastle v West Ham

by bodacious benny » Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:08 am

Speedo wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:14 pm
Just watched the game, having avoided all info etc til now.

Back three of Clark, Fernandez and Krafth is asking for trouble. I do not understand why Lascelles (and imo Schär, but I know that’s more controversial) was not starting. Mad.

Shelvey was bang average as always. Woodman was OK but exposed. Ritchie had a severe off day, one assist aside.

So disappointing
Surely Lascelles must have been carrying an injury or something has gone on behind the scenes? The back three were shocking, well not just them, the entire defensive unit.

Though I thought that Shelvey was far from our worst players yesterday. In midfield, Almiron was back to his headless chicken routine of lots of running without doing anything.

I've still no idea what happened at HT (other than Bruce). We were playing a good press in the first half, creating plenty of chances, yes they had chances too but I thought we deservedly went in ahead at the break. Then just a massive collapse early in the second half and it could have been about 2-6 come the end of the game.

Re: Match day thread: Newcastle v West Ham

by Speedo » Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:14 pm

Just watched the game, having avoided all info etc til now.

Back three of Clark, Fernandez and Krafth is asking for trouble. I do not understand why Lascelles (and imo Schär, but I know that’s more controversial) was not starting. Mad.

Shelvey was bang average as always. Woodman was OK but exposed. Ritchie had a severe off day, one assist aside.

So disappointing

Re: Match day thread: Newcastle v West Ham

by bodacious benny » Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:09 pm

Cabella's Invincible Hair wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:31 pm
How did Woodman play? Was the goals more down to bad defending?
Yeah I thought so.

Made one decent save from Bowen and a little unlucky after saving the penalty.

Re: Match day thread: Newcastle v West Ham

by Valentino's fast feet » Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:31 pm

How did Woodman play? Was the goals more down to bad defending?

Re: Match day thread: Newcastle v West Ham

by bodacious benny » Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:47 pm

Toondes wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 3:05 pm
lassassinblanc wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 2:52 pm


Letting a ball bounce in your box shouldn't be something Bruce should have to tell a player nor chasing back when a penalty is saved.
No but Bruce should recognise that the midfield was non- existent and being run ragged and changed it earlier . We were dropping too deep inviting pressure and hoofing balls down the channels as an escape route. It's poor football from a poor manager. We were never in command of the game even when we were ahead.

Willock almost single handedly kept us up last season with some vital goals / points and it looks like all the hope will be pinned on him again this season.
He should also have recognised that we literally didn’t have a defence from when the game kicked off to when it finished.

Re: Match day thread: Newcastle v West Ham

by bodacious benny » Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:47 pm

Don Sholeone wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 3:05 pm
We were awful in that second half but that ridiculous penalty just killed us, I watched a piece on Sky just yesterday saying how they are stamping out soft penalties and exaggerated falls... Then Martin Atkinson happened. It was a textbook example of what they said they are not going to do and not even a suggestion for the ref to review it. What's the f***ing point? At this point it seems they are saying any old s*** just to appease the VAR doubters.
Tbh I didn’t watch thinking “no way was that a pen”.

Re: Match day thread: Newcastle v West Ham

by seaside nipper » Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:39 pm

A few things confirmed, as if we didn’t already really know:

Defence gives us the fear
Our fitness levels to stay in game and pose a threat diminishes alarmingly as the time goes on
Our midfield is soft as sh!t
Moyes is a class manager, ours isn’t, albeit he’s a very nice guy seemingly.
We need a solid holding midfielder and if we need to sell both Longstaff’s so be it
The team needs Willock installed ASAP
All in all, we look a good team in bursts only but cannae manage a comfortable 90 minutes
I’m away to lie down

Top