Coronavirus

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Bodacious Benny
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Bodacious Benny » Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:33 pm

Got my first vaccination today <party>
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by jpg » Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:46 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:33 pm
Got my first vaccination today <party>
Nice work! Has your head fallen off yet?

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Bodacious Benny » Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:01 am

jpg wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:46 pm
Bodacious Benny wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:33 pm
Got my first vaccination today <party>
Nice work! Has your head fallen off yet?
Hmm I did wonder why I can now see my ballsack when I look up!
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Captain Obvious » Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:38 pm

Whats the difference between the two different types?

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by PTAO? » Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:09 pm

Isn't it obvious?

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Beatski » Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:20 am

Captain Obvious wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:38 pm
Whats the difference between the two different types?
the pfizer one is mRNA based (fancy brakthrough tech - your own cells make a non infectious part of the virus the same way the proper one would), whereas the astrazeneca one is based on a weakened version of the virus (how traditional vaccines work). They both essentially teach your immune system what the proper virus looks like so that if/when you do get infected, it already knows what to attack and should do easily (hopefully/probably without you noiticing).


this is roughly my area of expertise (using that term very loosely), so if you want me to elaborate, i can try at least <laugh>

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by overseasTOON » Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:50 am

Captain Obvious wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:38 pm
Whats the difference between the two different types?
One controls your mind via Teletext/Ceefax and the other controls your mind via carrier pigeons.

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Bodacious Benny » Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:41 pm

I live in a block of flats and in my section there are 6 flats...3 of the flats have formed a random friendship group (50 year old white bloke, 40 year old Asian woman and mid/late 60s white woman). About 3 or 4 nights a week they go round to one of the others flat for drinks etc, not overly noisy or late but with this supposed lockdown it does piss me off a bit as they’re not even attempting to be subtle about it. Since Xmas day the only person I’ve seen is my girlfriend. I know for a fact that the guy and the older woman see other people so they can’t even pretend to be in a bubble.

Half tempted to shop them to the cops as they just seem to think they can do whatever they want. I say hello in passing but other than that don’t interact with them so not bothered at all if they suspect me.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Captain Obvious » Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:06 pm

Beatski wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:20 am
Captain Obvious wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:38 pm
Whats the difference between the two different types?
the pfizer one is mRNA based (fancy brakthrough tech - your own cells make a non infectious part of the virus the same way the proper one would), whereas the astrazeneca one is based on a weakened version of the virus (how traditional vaccines work). They both essentially teach your immune system what the proper virus looks like so that if/when you do get infected, it already knows what to attack and should do easily (hopefully/probably without you noiticing).


this is roughly my area of expertise (using that term very loosely), so if you want me to elaborate, i can try at least <laugh>
What are the downsides to the Pfizer one then? I'm no anti-vaxxer but the idea of injecting my body with - a) an illness that didn't exist a 18 months ago and that we therefore don't know the long term effects of and b) a vaccine that has been rushed to market for profit and where speed to be first to market was crucial - doesn't fill me with too much excitement. I don't really understand all this stuff but the pfizer one might be the play for me given my concerns, if indeed we get any choice.

Can I ask too, if this is a flu of sorts (only more serious) I guess as per the flu jab we will require regular top ups - if not everybody (as this is more serious) then certainly a large chunk of the population?

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Bodacious Benny » Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:20 pm

You aren’t getting given the virus, you get a harmless component of it which trains your immune system how to deal with it. It has also gone through all the relevant red tape to get to market. The reason it came out so quickly is that literally every available resource was thrown at it, whereas traditionally drugs trials and companies would be working on a huge portfolio so had to spread their resources across hundreds of trials. When Covid hit pretty much every clinical and drugs trial in the world that was non-Covid related was suspended. You won’t get a choice in which one you get. I had the pfeizer one a few weeks ago and no issues at all, I work in clinical research and would encourage everyone to have it.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Captain Obvious » Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:24 am

But the Oxford one does give you the virus in a small dose? That's what I'd prefer to avoid if possible I guess so I'll be hoping for Pfizer. I clearly don't know anything about any of this and I'm probably just being a cynical skeptic, or a skeptical cynic, but these companies presumably stand to make stupid amounts of money and the fact that the UK seems to be leading the way with vaccine administration, when those in charge have been dreadful at everything else (PPE, lockdown etc etc) the whole way through this, also doesn't help my mindset.

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Micky Quim » Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:44 am

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:20 pm
You aren’t getting given the virus, you get a harmless component of it which trains your immune system how to deal with it. It has also gone through all the relevant red tape to get to market. The reason it came out so quickly is that literally every available resource was thrown at it, whereas traditionally drugs trials and companies would be working on a huge portfolio so had to spread their resources across hundreds of trials. When Covid hit pretty much every clinical and drugs trial in the world that was non-Covid related was suspended. You won’t get a choice in which one you get. I had the pfeizer one a few weeks ago and no issues at all, I work in clinical research and would encourage everyone to have it.
I don't think that's true, certainly not for the products Im working on. There would be ethical decisions to make for certain trials such as oncology for example.
Captain Obvious wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:24 am
But the Oxford one does give you the virus in a small dose? That's what I'd prefer to avoid if possible I guess so I'll be hoping for Pfizer. I clearly don't know anything about any of this and I'm probably just being a cynical skeptic, or a skeptical cynic, but these companies presumably stand to make stupid amounts of money and the fact that the UK seems to be leading the way with vaccine administration, when those in charge have been dreadful at everything else (PPE, lockdown etc etc) the whole way through this, also doesn't help my mindset.
Its part of the virus, not the virus itself. Its inactivated. This type of medicine has been around since smallpox, its extremely safe. The mRNA vaccines are newer but again based on proven immune response mechanisms. I would be interested in seeing a comparison of the safety profiles of mRNA vs traditional vaccines as I expect the mRNA could trigger an allergic reaction in a small number of people, but I would still definitely have it if offered.

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Bodacious Benny » Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:43 am

Micky Quim wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:44 am
Bodacious Benny wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:20 pm
You aren’t getting given the virus, you get a harmless component of it which trains your immune system how to deal with it. It has also gone through all the relevant red tape to get to market. The reason it came out so quickly is that literally every available resource was thrown at it, whereas traditionally drugs trials and companies would be working on a huge portfolio so had to spread their resources across hundreds of trials. When Covid hit pretty much every clinical and drugs trial in the world that was non-Covid related was suspended. You won’t get a choice in which one you get. I had the pfeizer one a few weeks ago and no issues at all, I work in clinical research and would encourage everyone to have it.
I don't think that's true, certainly not for the products Im working on. There would be ethical decisions to make for certain trials such as oncology for example.
Captain Obvious wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:24 am
But the Oxford one does give you the virus in a small dose? That's what I'd prefer to avoid if possible I guess so I'll be hoping for Pfizer. I clearly don't know anything about any of this and I'm probably just being a cynical skeptic, or a skeptical cynic, but these companies presumably stand to make stupid amounts of money and the fact that the UK seems to be leading the way with vaccine administration, when those in charge have been dreadful at everything else (PPE, lockdown etc etc) the whole way through this, also doesn't help my mindset.
Its part of the virus, not the virus itself. Its inactivated. This type of medicine has been around since smallpox, its extremely safe. The mRNA vaccines are newer but again based on proven immune response mechanisms. I would be interested in seeing a comparison of the safety profiles of mRNA vs traditional vaccines as I expect the mRNA could trigger an allergic reaction in a small number of people, but I would still definitely have it if offered.
Just going from my experience. Some trials did carry on but it’s no stretch to say that the majority were suspended, just like the majority of elective and non emergency surgery was postponed.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 6/fulltext

https://bjssjournals.onlinelibrary.wile ... /bjs.11746
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Captain Obvious » Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:21 am

Thanks guys - and how long are we expecting the vaccine to last. The flu jab is once a year but not compulsory, do we think something like that with a little bit more pressure to have it due to the fact this is more contagious and more deadly?

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Captain Obvious » Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:22 am

Also if the Oxford virus is inactivated then why do people get reduced symptoms when injected? It must be to some extent making them unwell?

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Micky Quim » Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:22 pm

Captain Obvious wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:21 am
Thanks guys - and how long are we expecting the vaccine to last. The flu jab is once a year but not compulsory, do we think something like that with a little bit more pressure to have it due to the fact this is more contagious and more deadly?
I don't think anyone knows the answer to this yet - some scientists are saying covid will be around for 10 years so we will need constant vaccination, at least annually it is thought. My company has planned to make the vaccine for at least the next 3 years.
Captain Obvious wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:22 am
Also if the Oxford virus is inactivated then why do people get reduced symptoms when injected? It must be to some extent making them unwell?
Vaccines are designed to trigger an allergic response - so you feel unwell because your body is generating antibodies which ultimately provide protection if you are exposed to covid. This antibody generation takes energy up as you are making thousands of them until your body finds the right one that can kill the virus - its like a lock and key effect, you need to find the key to break the lock of the virus. Once your body has that it will remain active in your immune system.

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Colback's Orange Tufts » Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:17 pm

Captain Obvious wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:22 am
Also if the Oxford virus is inactivated then why do people get reduced symptoms when injected? It must be to some extent making them unwell?
Most of the things you feel when you have the flu are not the flu virus itself, its because of how your body is trying to fight it.
Like the cold doesn't cause a sore throat, runny nose, that's your body saying "lets get this virus out!!!!"
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by jpg » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:20 am

I have a question...

What is the benefit/necessity of the vaccine for young adults if it doesn’t prevent transmission? Is it simply a precaution to protect against the virus should they develop a condition which weakens their immune system in the future?

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Beatski » Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:23 pm

Captain Obvious wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:06 pm

What are the downsides to the Pfizer one then? I'm no anti-vaxxer but the idea of injecting my body with - a) an illness that didn't exist a 18 months ago and that we therefore don't know the long term effects of and b) a vaccine that has been rushed to market for profit and where speed to be first to market was crucial - doesn't fill me with too much excitement. I don't really understand all this stuff but the pfizer one might be the play for me given my concerns, if indeed we get any choice.

Can I ask too, if this is a flu of sorts (only more serious) I guess as per the flu jab we will require regular top ups - if not everybody (as this is more serious) then certainly a large chunk of the population?
The vaccines havent been created from scratch, its been built on the foundations of lots of other things (standing on the shoulders of giants). So while this particular coronavirus illness didnt exist 18 months ago, very similar ones did. e.g. the coronavirus SARS emerged in 2002, had a vaccine in 2003 and has been further researched for 18 years, a lot of that will carry over to cov19 and just need adapting for any sort of traditional vaccine.

Or in the case of the mRNA vaccine, it wasnt designed for coronavirus, its been worked on for a long time now and has been adapted for coronavirus. An mRNA vaccine is essentially a 'plug and play' blank template, where you insert some (non infectious) viral mRNA in to a framework, which then uses your cell's systems to make a controlled amount of the 'spike protein' (1 mrna molecule makes 1 spike protein).
This then triggers an immune response, giving you immunity. The hard part of this vaccine was making the framework that actually gets the mRNA to where it needs to be for this to happen, once you've got the framework you could potentially take mRNA from any infection and get similar results, which is why it has the potential to be a revolutionary bit of research:
From 2018: mRNA vaccines have elicited potent immunity against infectious disease targets in animal models of influenza virus, Zika virus, rabies virus and others, especially in recent years, using lipid-encapsulated or naked forms of sequence-optimized mRNA.
https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243


jpg wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:20 am
I have a question...

What is the benefit/necessity of the vaccine for young adults if it doesn’t prevent transmission? Is it simply a precaution to protect against the virus should they develop a condition which weakens their immune system in the future?
Because it will still reduce the transmission rate since you've got less of the virus to spread, and a small reduction in transmission can result in a big reduction in spread. e.g. say the vaccine reduces the chances of transmission from 50% to 20%, if you are carrying the virus and run in to 10 people that's 2 people instead of 5 infected. if they all then run in to 10 people each (all vaccinated vs all unvaccinated) thats another 4 vs 25, then they run in to another 10 people its 8 vs 125 etc.
On top of that, a precaution cant hurt. we dont know the long term effects of infection (e.g. scarring in lungs, even in asymptomatic people), or you might get unlucky and it hits you really hard; my mate was hospitalised and he's only 33.

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Captain Obvious » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:52 pm

Thanks for everyone's help. Certainly feeling better about it all. One more question - the vaccine has been likened to the flu jab but the symptoms my friends are reporting are that, for a day or two, your feel pretty horrendous. I even had one mate who had to spend the night in hospital on a drip such was his reaction to the Oxford. All are now seemingly fine, but why would the symptoms be worse than the flu for such a jab (where the illness is deactivated etc, and symptoms are more a product of the body fighting infection etc)?

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