Strike options until Wilson's back??

Who should lead the line while Wilson's out..???

Joelinton
6
43%
Carroll
2
14%
Gayle
3
21%
False 9.. Willock, Miggy, ASM, Fraser?
3
21%
 
Total votes: 14

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Strike options until Wilson's back??

Post by Sanchino » Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:07 pm

We tried a 4-3-1-2 with ASM & Gayle leading the line.. but that didn't work as Gayle struggled on the right-hand of the forward line. Gayle isn't the type of striker like Wilson to use his strength to hold up play, be a threat in the air, run the channels & dribble past opponents. He's more of a fox in the box who uses his off the ball movement to run in behind & when he's in the final third he becomes active but he hasn't got Wilson's pace, strength & all-round game. If we were to use him he needs to be used more centrally than out-wide weather we would need to tweak the formation/tactics/personal to suit that remains to be seen.

Carroll.. we all know what he brings to the table.. aerial prowess even though I don't think he's even that great in the air no more but he's a option if we want a more physical presence upfront. If he can play more like he played against Arsenal in the cup then he deserves to start but he hasn't really had a major impact since coming back and you can clearly see his best days are behind him now.

Joelinton.. OK we know he isn't worth nowhere near 40 million but he does try & is more mobile than Carroll but he doesn't excel in nothing in particular he doesn't have electric pace or clinical finishing but he's decent with the ball at his feet & his technique is good. In the second half when he came on for Gayle he looked alright & I think he could be the best option as he's used to playing from a wider position so we should try start him against Man United & give him a chance from the start.

Other options could be going strike-less.. like a false 9 with ASM, Miggy, Fraser or Willock leading the line & coming deep into midfield to provide space for other runners or run in behind to give a goal threat. I think ASM, Miggy & Fraser's capabilities are more suited to on the wing or no.10/attacking mid (Miggy).. but Willock with his energy, running, movement & goal threat could be a possibility as a false 9.


Options.. different formation examples.. discuss

Fraser Miggy ASM
Carroll / Gayle / Joelinton

Fraser Miggy ASM
Willock (false 9)

Miggy Joelinton ASM
Gayle?

OR with current formation (4-1-2-1-2 / 4-3-1-2)

Miggy
Joelinton/Carroll/Gayle --- ASM

Willock
Miggy--ASM

Miggy
Fraser -- ASM


Who should we start against Man United..?

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Re: Strike options until Wilson's back??

Post by originallad » Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:25 pm

Need to go with whatever we did in the 2nd half against Chelsea and stick Joelinton in instead of Gayle.

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Re: Strike options until Wilson's back??

Post by Don Sholeone » Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:45 pm

Gayle really struggled with the system so I'd probably go Joelinton again, think he can probably do the role better, its just he won't be much of a goal threat.

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Re: Strike options until Wilson's back??

Post by Remember Colo » Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:48 pm

They all suck, but Gayle isn't more than a poacher, and we don't create enough chances to leverage that skill - so I prefer the others that can at least also maybe possibly offer something in the build-up and with hold-up play.

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Re: Strike options until Wilson's back??

Post by Bodacious Benny » Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:08 pm

I’d play the person who given a run of games will without doubt outscore the others; Gayle.

Can’t judge him off the back of the Chelsea game when a) he’s hardly been given any game time and b) Chelsea have been solid under Tuchel.
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Re: Strike options until Wilson's back??

Post by Captain Obvious » Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:00 pm

Get ready to shoot me............I'd play Joelinton. I really would. Not for his goal threat just because Carroll is totally past it, can't move, can't jump, just lumbers around and fouls. Gayle seems to have lost a yard of pace too and is a passenger. He can't hold the ball up, he can't create. He seems to be regressing. Joelinton isn't a goal threat at all, but he can hold the ball up, he's no slouch and he can bring the likes of ASM, Miggy and Willock into the game. He probably provides the least individual goal threat, but he might be the best option for the team as a whole.

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Re: Strike options until Wilson's back??

Post by Sanchino » Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:38 pm

Captain Obvious wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:00 pm
Get ready to shoot me............I'd play Joelinton. I really would. Not for his goal threat just because Carroll is totally past it, can't move, can't jump, just lumbers around and fouls. Gayle seems to have lost a yard of pace too and is a passenger. He can't hold the ball up, he can't create. He seems to be regressing. Joelinton isn't a goal threat at all, but he can hold the ball up, he's no slouch and he can bring the likes of ASM, Miggy and Willock into the game. He probably provides the least individual goal threat, but he might be the best option for the team as a whole.
Well said. Best goalscorer/finisher - Gayle... best for the team as a whole I'll say Joelinton as he's the most technically adept (can dribble, bring others into play, pass & comfortable with the ball).. best for physical presence/headers.. Carroll... best overall obviously Wilson.

Would anyone have Willock as false 9? Say Joelinton/Gayle/Carroll had freak injuries or something.. Willock is tall at 6ft 1'', athletic, mobile & a goal threat to pay that role? <scratch>

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Re: Strike options until Wilson's back??

Post by seaside nipper » Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:50 pm

Need to try Gayle with support from Willock, ASM and Almiron. Big risk here is fitness. Start with Gayle and Joelinton primed well before Carrol. Cant say I’m surprised at Carroll's lack of contribution, but very disappointed as he’s had three or four sitters missed of late.
We have to surely click into some kind of effective attacking form even without Wilson.
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Re: Strike options until Wilson's back??

Post by Colly » Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:53 pm

Sanchino wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:38 pm
Captain Obvious wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:00 pm
Get ready to shoot me............I'd play Joelinton. I really would. Not for his goal threat just because Carroll is totally past it, can't move, can't jump, just lumbers around and fouls. Gayle seems to have lost a yard of pace too and is a passenger. He can't hold the ball up, he can't create. He seems to be regressing. Joelinton isn't a goal threat at all, but he can hold the ball up, he's no slouch and he can bring the likes of ASM, Miggy and Willock into the game. He probably provides the least individual goal threat, but he might be the best option for the team as a whole.
Would anyone have Willock as false 9? Say Joelinton/Gayle/Carroll had freak injuries or something.. Willock is tall at 6ft 1'', athletic, mobile & a goal threat to pay that role? <scratch>
I think he could do it at a push, but that just brings us back to our old problem of having a horrific central midfield. I'd much rather Willock behind Joelinton/Gayle/Carroll/Riviere/the kit man than Shelvey/Jeff behind Willock.

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Re: Strike options until Wilson's back??

Post by ALF » Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:03 pm

I'd probably go with Joelinton for all round contribution. Gayle offers us pretty much nothing, he can score if we create something but that's not enough in modern football. He'd be fine in a top Championship side but he's less effective than Carroll in the PL. Carroll will work hard even if he is slow. He has the best passing of our 4 striking options by a long way. I think he'd be a good option if we can get it to his feet rather than his head and he can play passes to release ASM/Miggy/Willock. And he obviously offers a presence in the box.

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Re: Strike options until Wilson's back??

Post by Slim999 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:00 am

What about 4-3-3 for home matches at least?

In attack - Fraser Willock ASM

Those 3 all pose a threat

In midfield we'd need 2 mobile ball players plus a defensive

Miggy alongside ... Sean Longstaff or Ritchie

With Hayden behind firming a midfield triangle

Defence would need to be solid

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Re: Strike options until Wilson's back??

Post by Bodacious Benny » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:52 am

Joelinton may be out injured so it's down to Gayle/Carroll <laugh>

I'd still go Gayle v Wolves personally and try to take the game to them more. If there are games against bigger teams where we need someone to try and hold the ball up then Carroll at the moment given there's nobody else.
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Re: Strike options until Wilson's back??

Post by Sanchino » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:17 pm

Slim999 wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:00 am
What about 4-3-3 for home matches at least?

In attack - Fraser Willock ASM

Those 3 all pose a threat

In midfield we'd need 2 mobile ball players plus a defensive

Miggy alongside ... Sean Longstaff or Ritchie

With Hayden behind firming a midfield triangle

Defence would need to be solid
This.. could work. Miggy as the attacking mid with Hayden in his DM role then they'll need to be a box-to-box like Sean or Matty Longstaff to help out.. but Brucie has to much love for Shelvey & Hendrick he'll either start one or both at the same time.

Against Wolves we need to go for it.. either go 4-3-3 or 4-2-1-3 or a attacking/flexible 3-4-3.. as I don't trust Kraft & Lewis they have mistakes in them

Dubra
Fernandez* Lascelles Clark
Murphy Willock Hayden Lewis/Ritchie**
Miggy
Carroll/Gayle*** --- ASM

*If Fernandez is not fit then slot someone like Dumemt in who's comfortable in a back three NO HAYDEN OR KRAFT.
**Lewis has looked shaky in a back four but as a wing-back he can focus on going forward more or if we want a change then might be time for Ritchie to come in to provide solidity & deliveries into the box especially if someone like Carroll plays.
***Depends on what type of striker we want to partner ASM.. If we're playing Carroll then you need to play players that will cross the ball to him & provide ammunition like Murphy & Ritchie.. if Gayle starts then switch to a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 with Fraser/Miggy/ASM supporting him. Carroll provides a physical presence, threat in the air & hold-up play while Gayle can run in behind & is a fox in the box''.. neither of them are on Wilson's level but if they get the right support from Miggy, Willock & ASM then it doesn't matter who plays upfront. I'll say give Carroll a chance.. we just need Willock, ASM & Miggy to get in & around the box close to him to get on the end of his flick ons, headers, knock downs & hold up play.

Wolves usually play a 3-4-3 so could be interesting if we match up to them.. regardless we need to attack, high press & show intent from the start regardless of formation.. I think knowing Bruce he'll go for this again <urgh>

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Kraft Lascelles Clark Lewis
Willock Hayden Shelvey
Miggy
Gayle --- ASM

We just know he'll start Shelvey unfortunately or even worse.. Hendrick. <erk>

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Re: Strike options until Wilson's back??

Post by Bodacious Benny » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:57 pm

No striker works pretty well for Man C :bandit:
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Re: Strike options until Wilson's back??

Post by Captain Obvious » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:57 pm

I cant believe there's a post on this thread that has Willock up front and Almiron and Ritchie in at CM. Aside from the fact it's insane, it is never going to happen.

Stick with the formation that saw us beat Everton and Southampton. We suffered expected defeats away at Chelsea and Manchester United but we played well before that. It's very much the time to be anxious and concerned, but not the time for all out panic. Stick with it, I believe we can pick up enough points the way we're playing.

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Re: Strike options until Wilson's back??

Post by Sanchino » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:21 pm

Captain Obvious wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:57 pm
I cant believe there's a post on this thread that has Willock up front and Almiron and Ritchie in at CM. Aside from the fact it's insane, it is never going to happen.

Stick with the formation that saw us beat Everton and Southampton. We suffered expected defeats away at Chelsea and Manchester United but we played well before that. It's very much the time to be anxious and concerned, but not the time for all out panic. Stick with it, I believe we can pick up enough points the way we're playing.
This. I think the diamond 4-3-1-2 formation suits us best for now. If we could beat Everton & Southampton with this formation we could definitely get points against Wolves & West Brom.

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Kraft Lascelles Clark Lewis
Hayden Willock Longstaff*
Miggy
Gayle/Carroll* --- ASM

*No Hendrick or Shelvey ideally. Matty deserves a chance & even though Sean's form has been awful this season he could be better suited to this formation were he can make late runs in the box & pressure high-up.
**We already have runners in ASM, Willock & Miggy.. so we need someone to hold up the ball & give us a physical presence I'll give Carroll a start but Gayle is more mobile but didn't get a sniff at Chelsea.. will be a different ball game against Wolves & West Brom so he could have more of a impact.

Ritchie in CM is not the worst or best solution for our midfield problems but I think if he starts it should be as a winger or full-back not as a CM.. I'll rather him replace one of Lewis or Kraft first.. we have enough midfield options with the Longstaffs to not have to play Ritchie there & what a blow to the confidence of Matty/Sean if a winger gets picked over them.. I would definitely be requesting to leave in the summer.

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Re: Strike options until Wilson's back??

Post by overseasTOON » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:22 pm

How about giving Santon 20 mins as a CF?

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Re: Strike options until Wilson's back??

Post by ALF » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:35 pm

Captain Obvious wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:57 pm
I cant believe there's a post on this thread that has Willock up front and Almiron and Ritchie in at CM. Aside from the fact it's insane, it is never going to happen.

Stick with the formation that saw us beat Everton and Southampton. We suffered expected defeats away at Chelsea and Manchester United but we played well before that. It's very much the time to be anxious and concerned, but not the time for all out panic. Stick with it, I believe we can pick up enough points the way we're playing.
Agree with this. Players need to play in positions that they are comfortable in. Willock looks decent breaking from midfield, doesn't mean he can lead the line. It's a completely different position.

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Re: Strike options until Wilson's back??

Post by Colly » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:23 pm

ALF wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:35 pm
Captain Obvious wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:57 pm
I cant believe there's a post on this thread that has Willock up front and Almiron and Ritchie in at CM. Aside from the fact it's insane, it is never going to happen.

Stick with the formation that saw us beat Everton and Southampton. We suffered expected defeats away at Chelsea and Manchester United but we played well before that. It's very much the time to be anxious and concerned, but not the time for all out panic. Stick with it, I believe we can pick up enough points the way we're playing.
Agree with this. Players need to play in positions that they are comfortable in. Willock looks decent breaking from midfield, doesn't mean he can lead the line. It's a completely different position.
And as I said a while back, even though we're short up front our weakest position is CM, so to take potentially our most influential one and stick him up front is madness. There's a bit of me that could maybe see Almiron at the point of the diamond, but wherever he is he's going to do the same job of covering ground everywhere, and I'd sooner see him using his pace out wide before coming in rather than trying to battle through the middle of the park.

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Re: Strike options until Wilson's back??

Post by Captain Obvious » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:54 pm

I think, and I don't know this for sure, the reason we line up with Alimron through the middle when we're defending is that he has the workrate, stamina and pace to essentially help the press both sides. The hardworking, lovable little bastard.

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