Wolves thread. interested but also terrified

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Re: Wolves thread. interested but also terrified

Post by Sanchino » Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:31 pm

ALF wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:42 pm
Colly wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:28 pm
I think it'll be interesting to see whether he brings in a second CM next game when he doesn't have the illness and injury excuses. Also very interesting to see which of Almiron, Fraser or ASM make way.
Depends on the formation I suppose. We look awful with a back 5, rather see Lascelles drop out for Longstaff and Hendrick drop out for Hayden. 4-2-3-1
This. Longstaff & Hayden have always had a good understanding.. remember when Benitez paired them and we went on that purple patch. They compliment each other's games.. A fit & on-form Longstaff with Hayden is potentially better than Shelvey-Hayden as Longstaff can defend, attack well & is way more mobile & more hard-working than Shelvey covers more ground & tackles better so why not rekindle that partnership? If we were to play a 4-2-3-1.. Murphy doesn't deserve to be dropped after that performance but I don't know if he's good enough to play as a winger in a front three behind the striker and obviously he's not a out and out right-back.. unless we play him as a sort of Dani Alves bombing up forward sort of RB with Hayden/Longstaff dropping back in to cover him at times? If he can play RWB I'm sure giving him a try at RB wouldn't be the worst thing? He already looks better than Yeds.. Manquillo / Kraft aren't exactly top class.. Murphy has the potential (you never known) to be a very adept & pacey Premier League quality right-back I mean he looked strong & comfortable there.. didn't put a foot wrong today in defense & in attack he was impressive. Nice dilema to have.. headache selection <scratch>

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Re: Wolves thread. interested but also terrified

Post by Captain Obvious » Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:12 pm

I’d go 4 at the back next game. I think the 5 at the back has to be saved for basically top 7 away from home. Bring Hayden in for Schar (or Lascelles if he’s injured) and then play Fraser Miggy and ASM behind Wilson. But because we didn’t lose today the clown will play the same 11 - as per Brighton after the West Ham won

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Re: Wolves thread. interested but also terrified

Post by Sanchino » Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:41 am

Captain Obvious wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:12 pm
I’d go 4 at the back next game. I think the 5 at the back has to be saved for basically top 7 away from home. Bring Hayden in for Schar (or Lascelles if he’s injured) and then play Fraser Miggy and ASM behind Wilson. But because we didn’t lose today the clown will play the same 11 - as per Brighton after the West Ham won
Good point.. so should Murphy play as out and out right-back in a back four? <scratch>

Yeah.. I have a feeling he will either play the same team or leave Miggy / Fraser out and put Longstaff in.. when Schar / Lascelles should be the ones making way.

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Re: Wolves thread. interested but also terrified

Post by Captain Obvious » Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:10 pm

It's harsh - but if we're playing a flat 4 I play Manquillo. Murphy had a great game at RWB but I don't think he's as good as Miggy, ASM or Fraser and I think Manquillo has had a good season at RB. I fully expect to see five at the back next game and Hayden in for Fraser/Miggy as the only change.....

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Re: Wolves thread. interested but also terrified

Post by seaside nipper » Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:20 pm

Donkey Toon wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:14 pm
Field a team with attacking talent and yet play the same defensive ****. We deserve to keep losing games with these tactics.
Agreed.

The classic embodiment of the negative and contain approach saw Lewis make a great run forward in the second half only to stop, unchallenged, and pass it back thirty yards to Almiron ffs , no support whatsoever available. So, instead of turning that effort into something akin to a proper counter attack a promising move died through our own lack of action.
Even playing safe and counterattacking needs some kind of forward intent ffs.

Not blaming Lewis but it’s clear that the Bruce doctrine and defensive dogma is being imprinted on the players mindset now.

Bruce was a right miserable and dour defender in his day, heck he’s certainly leaving his mark on this Newcastle team in the same way.

Expansive attacking football, oooerr, nor here mate
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Re: Wolves thread. interested but also terrified

Post by Sanchino » Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:38 pm

Captain Obvious wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:10 pm
It's harsh - but if we're playing a flat 4 I play Manquillo. Murphy had a great game at RWB but I don't think he's as good as Miggy, ASM or Fraser and I think Manquillo has had a good season at RB. I fully expect to see five at the back next game and Hayden in for Fraser/Miggy as the only change.....
Yeah.. so harsh on Murphy tho after such a good performance and well taken goal to miss out. If I was the manager I'll give him a shot as a RB.. yes Manquillo's experience and all-round game is better than him in a back four but what's the worst that can happen? He didn't look out of place and if he's exposed then we can always sub him of at half-time? But yeah I'll like to see Hayden come in and Longstaff for Hendrick to switch things up if we're going for a 4231 but unlikely Bruce will change anything apart from one of Fraser/Miggy making way for Hayden. I have a good feeling about this formation ONLY if we can find a effective way of counter attacking better and linking the defense to attack more fluently & free-flowing.. imagine having so many attacking players in Murphy, ASM, Miggy, Fraser & Wilson but still NOT looking like a threat & danger??? Steve Bruceys' Tactical Genius <awe>

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Re: Wolves thread. interested but also terrified

Post by Bodacious Benny » Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:36 pm

I’d play Murphy as RWB but would be very risky playing him at RB in a traditional back four.
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Re: Wolves thread. interested but also terrified

Post by ALF » Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:22 pm

I'd play Murphy as a RB, majority of full backs are wingers that weren't quite good enough or short CB's.

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Re: Wolves thread. interested but also terrified

Post by Colly » Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:17 pm

ALF wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:22 pm
I'd play Murphy as a RB, majority of full backs are wingers that weren't quite good enough or short CB's.
Who are you, Jamie Carragher? It's 2020 and some of the best players in the league are full backs.

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Re: Wolves thread. interested but also terrified

Post by Bodacious Benny » Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:22 pm

ALF wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:22 pm
I'd play Murphy as a RB, majority of full backs are wingers that weren't quite good enough or short CB's.
Not sure that’s something you could really quantify <laugh>
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Re: Wolves thread. interested but also terrified

Post by CIH » Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:21 pm

I don't like the three at the back formation, I don't think we suit it. I think it suits Schaer better, but I also think Lascelles is his best in a straight back four. His leadership is vital I believe, and him and Fernandez seem to have a good partnership. That being said, I agree about Murphy - it's a lot to ask for him to play as an orthadox RB. He looked good at RWB, and with the options we have further up the field, he isn't going to start on the wing. It's a good problem to have really, too many options both in personnel and tactics. It's a terrible shame we have a rigid, square peg round hole manager.

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Re: Wolves thread. interested but also terrified

Post by ALF » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:28 pm

Colly wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:17 pm
ALF wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:22 pm
I'd play Murphy as a RB, majority of full backs are wingers that weren't quite good enough or short CB's.
Who are you, Jamie Carragher? It's 2020 and some of the best players in the league are full backs.
Exactly. They still largely fall under that criteria. TAA is largely seen as one of the best full backs in the world(he isn't), he spent a lot of his youth career in central midfield. Robertson was a winger. The attributes for a modern full back aren't too dissimilar to those of a wide midfielder, especially in teams where the wide players have to defend a lot. Ashley Young and Antonio Valencia were both playing full back for Manchester United despite playing on the wing for most of the their careers.

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Re: Wolves thread. interested but also terrified

Post by Bodacious Benny » Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:53 pm

On a positive note, defence looked good.
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Re: Wolves thread. interested but also terrified

Post by ALF » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:29 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:53 pm
On a positive note, defence looked good.
All 9 of them <whistle>

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Re: Wolves thread. interested but also terrified

Post by Colly » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:26 am

ALF wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:28 pm
Colly wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:17 pm


Who are you, Jamie Carragher? It's 2020 and some of the best players in the league are full backs.
Exactly. They still largely fall under that criteria. TAA is largely seen as one of the best full backs in the world(he isn't), he spent a lot of his youth career in central midfield. Robertson was a winger. The attributes for a modern full back aren't too dissimilar to those of a wide midfielder, especially in teams where the wide players have to defend a lot. Ashley Young and Antonio Valencia were both playing full back for Manchester United despite playing on the wing for most of the their careers.
I don't think that's quite the same though, since orthodox wingers became less and less common (especially in the big teams) the role of the full back became far more important. It's not "wingers who weren't good enough", because the idea of TAA not being good enough for anything is absurd. The fact he's played CM is by the by, most young players get shuffled all over in their teens otherwise Steven Taylor would be our greatest number 9.

With regards Murphy he might be able to make that step, but we've no real idea if he has the discipline to do it. If we trialled it it would have to be a game where Hayden starts so he gets some cover.

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Re: Wolves thread. interested but also terrified

Post by ALF » Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:49 pm

Colly wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:26 am
ALF wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:28 pm


Exactly. They still largely fall under that criteria. TAA is largely seen as one of the best full backs in the world(he isn't), he spent a lot of his youth career in central midfield. Robertson was a winger. The attributes for a modern full back aren't too dissimilar to those of a wide midfielder, especially in teams where the wide players have to defend a lot. Ashley Young and Antonio Valencia were both playing full back for Manchester United despite playing on the wing for most of the their careers.
I don't think that's quite the same though, since orthodox wingers became less and less common (especially in the big teams) the role of the full back became far more important. It's not "wingers who weren't good enough", because the idea of TAA not being good enough for anything is absurd. The fact he's played CM is by the by, most young players get shuffled all over in their teens otherwise Steven Taylor would be our greatest number 9.

With regards Murphy he might be able to make that step, but we've no real idea if he has the discipline to do it. If we trialled it it would have to be a game where Hayden starts so he gets some cover.
It's not a certainty that Murphy could do it at all. But a winger becoming a full back at 25 isn't particularly uncommon these days and is something that could happen here.

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Re: Wolves thread. interested but also terrified

Post by Colly » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:12 pm

<ok>

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Re: Wolves thread. interested but also terrified

Post by Remember Colo » Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:36 am

ALF wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:49 pm
Colly wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:26 am


I don't think that's quite the same though, since orthodox wingers became less and less common (especially in the big teams) the role of the full back became far more important. It's not "wingers who weren't good enough", because the idea of TAA not being good enough for anything is absurd. The fact he's played CM is by the by, most young players get shuffled all over in their teens otherwise Steven Taylor would be our greatest number 9.

With regards Murphy he might be able to make that step, but we've no real idea if he has the discipline to do it. If we trialled it it would have to be a game where Hayden starts so he gets some cover.
It's not a certainty that Murphy could do it at all. But a winger becoming a full back at 25 isn't particularly uncommon these days and is something that could happen here.
I completely agree with the broader point about wingers and fullbacks, though I think there's a big difference between a winger transitioning to fullback for clubs that dominate play and are on the front foot for most of matches (like a lot of the examples provided in the thread), and then transitioning to fullback for a side like ours that is constantly encouraging pressure and having to defend.

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Re: Wolves thread. interested but also terrified

Post by Bodacious Benny » Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:02 pm

Wonder what formation we’ll have v Everton given that Bruce clearly has no idea which formation or team selection is best <laugh>
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Re: Wolves thread. interested but also terrified

Post by overseasTOON » Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:13 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:02 pm
Wonder what formation we’ll have v Everton given that Bruce clearly has no idea which formation or team selection is best <laugh>
Wilson





ASM ------Schar





Everyone else

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