Armstrong and Toney

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originallad
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Armstrong and Toney

Post by originallad » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:23 pm

Just seen that Armstrong and Toney have both scored again tonight. 17 goals between them in 15 matches!

If they continue on like that, they'll get snapped up by a Prem club next season for a 20 million a piece i reckon. Hopefully we've got sell on clauses on both.

Did we give up on them too soon?

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Re: Armstrong and Toney

Post by ALF » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:44 pm

Armstrong ended up getting 2. 100% gave up on them too soon, Benitez has zero faith in young players and it cost us big time here.

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Re: Armstrong and Toney

Post by Blue & Maroon » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:06 pm

Don't think we'd be paying much attention to them if we hadn't let them go, both doing well mind.

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Re: Armstrong and Toney

Post by Beatski » Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:16 am

Under 2.5 mil for the pair. I thought it was a poor decision at the time and it definitely looks like it in hindsight

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Re: Armstrong and Toney

Post by The Deluded Pablo Diego Jose Francisco » Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:17 am

How could they have possibly developed to the point where they are now had they have stayed with us with the football that we’ve been playing over the past 3/4 years?

The fact is that they would still be either sitting on the bench, playing for the reserves or loaned out. Its good that they have left the club and developed playing for teams that actually play football (I dream of the day we do!) but they would still be nobody’s at our club had they’ve stayed.

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Re: Armstrong and Toney

Post by Colly » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:13 am

It's tricky, had we found the right loans we could have reaped the benefits, but we don't seem to be very good at that.

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Re: Armstrong and Toney

Post by Bodacious Benny » Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:07 pm

There was definitely a place for Armstrong to get a chance under Rafa but it didn’t happen and he went for peanuts.

Toney was very raw so nowhere near first team when we had him, we got about £3m from his transfer to Brentford I think.
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Re: Armstrong and Toney

Post by originallad » Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:17 pm

Yup, defo missed a trick with Armstrong.

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Re: Armstrong and Toney

Post by ALF » Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:51 pm

Armstrong should have stayed with us in the Championship rather than get shifted out on loan to a side that plays direct football.

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Re: Armstrong and Toney

Post by Colly » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:13 pm

ALF wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:51 pm
Armstrong should have stayed with us in the Championship rather than get shifted out on loan to a side that plays direct football.
Rafa didn't even want to play Mitrovic that season, Armstrong wouldn't have got any game time at all.

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Re: Armstrong and Toney

Post by originallad » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:59 pm

Has Rafa always fobbed off youth players or did he just not think ours were any good?

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Re: Armstrong and Toney

Post by Beatski » Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:52 am

The Deluded Pablo Diego Jose Francisco wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:17 am
How could they have possibly developed to the point where they are now had they have stayed with us with the football that we’ve been playing over the past 3/4 years?

could have loaned Armstrong back to Blackburn for a season rather than selling him to them, then he could have stepped in to Perez's role the next season when we sold Perez

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Re: Armstrong and Toney

Post by The Deluded Pablo Diego Jose Francisco » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:27 am

Beatski wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:52 am
The Deluded Pablo Diego Jose Francisco wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:17 am
How could they have possibly developed to the point where they are now had they have stayed with us with the football that we’ve been playing over the past 3/4 years?

could have loaned Armstrong back to Blackburn for a season rather than selling him to them, then he could have stepped in to Perez's role the next season when we sold Perez
But would he be the same player now? Absolutely not. He’d be lucky to get 10 touches of the ball a game with the way we play and probably sitting on the bench after a few ‘anonymous’ apps.

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Re: Armstrong and Toney

Post by ALF » Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:13 am

originallad wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:59 pm
Has Rafa always fobbed off youth players or did he just not think ours were any good?
Always been terrible with young players.

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Re: Armstrong and Toney

Post by Captain Obvious » Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:50 am

Non story, they needed to leave and get settled and get game time. Happens all the time.

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Re: Armstrong and Toney

Post by ALF » Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:51 am

Captain Obvious wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:50 am
Non story, they needed to leave and get settled and get game time. Happens all the time.
Most teams put a buy back clause in when it's clear there's potential there though.

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Re: Armstrong and Toney

Post by Colly » Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:31 pm

It's only a non story in the sense that we always bloody do it...

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Re: Armstrong and Toney

Post by biggeordiedave » Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:38 pm

Captain Obvious wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:50 am
Non story, they needed to leave and get settled and get game time. Happens all the time.
This. Clubs let players go, some go on to do well, most don't. It's very easy to assume that they wanted to stay here forever and were happy being loaned out until someone thought they were good enough. I don't think that's how it works. We didn't let them go in their current form either. They were scoring a small handful of goals between them in League One and the Championship at the time, and didn't look anywhere near fitting into a Premier League team.
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Re: Armstrong and Toney

Post by Bodacious Benny » Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:12 pm

I think it’s a good point of discussion.
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Re: Armstrong and Toney

Post by originallad » Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:55 pm

biggeordiedave wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:38 pm
Captain Obvious wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:50 am
Non story, they needed to leave and get settled and get game time. Happens all the time.
This. Clubs let players go, some go on to do well, most don't. It's very easy to assume that they wanted to stay here forever and were happy being loaned out until someone thought they were good enough. I don't think that's how it works. We didn't let them go in their current form either. They were scoring a small handful of goals between them in League One and the Championship at the time, and didn't look anywhere near fitting into a Premier League team.
Perhaps they didn't want to stay, perhaps they did. We'll probably never know. But could we have managed them better? Loaned them out to clubs who would have played them more. Given them a few chances in our 1st team.

Saying all that, hindsight is a wonderful thing. We could have done all of the above and they could have turned out complete s****. And tbf, it's only a bit into the season. They've both got a long way to go.

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