Armstrong and Toney

[UlversToon]

Talking of youth development, our u18s lost 6-1 at home to Villa u18s last night.

Not sure if it's true or not but I'm sure I read somewhere that Bruce took charge or was on the bench at least last night.

[Valentino's fast feet]

The Brucey bonus belly roll extending as far down to the youth matches against his former teams?

[gola]

not sure about bruce being ther i dint see him. agree tho villa looked like a differrent level to us. not pretty and not jus a 1 off

[ALF]

It's easy to blame Ashley for everything but Benitez and Bruce are both dinosaurs who are absolutely useless at developing young players. Both would rather throw in a 30 something 'experienced' player. Heading into our Championship season Armstrong had just scored 20 in League One and been named in the team of the season. It was the perfect time to bring him into a good Championship side and give him an opportunity. Instead he spent 18 months in direct newly promoted sides at that level barely getting a touch of the ball let alone goals.

[Remember Colo]

It's easy to blame Ashley for everything but Benitez and Bruce are both dinosaurs who are absolutely useless at developing young players. Both would rather throw in a 30 something 'experienced' player. Heading into our Championship season Armstrong had just scored 20 in League One and been named in the team of the season. It was the perfect time to bring him into a good Championship side and give him an opportunity. Instead he spent 18 months in direct newly promoted sides at that level barely getting a touch of the ball let alone goals.

[bodacious benny]

It's easy to blame Ashley for everything but Benitez and Bruce are both dinosaurs who are absolutely useless at developing young players. Both would rather throw in a 30 something 'experienced' player. Heading into our Championship season Armstrong had just scored 20 in League One and been named in the team of the season. It was the perfect time to bring him into a good Championship side and give him an opportunity. Instead he spent 18 months in direct newly promoted sides at that level barely getting a touch of the ball let alone goals.

I’m not sure if there was an overlap, but was Jesus Gamez brought in around the time we had Tavernier? On the theme of brining in old heads...

[Remember Colo]

I’m not sure if there was an overlap, but was Jesus Gamez brought in around the time we had Tavernier? On the theme of brining in old heads...

Or how about Daryl Murphy brought in as forward depth for that Championship season? There was an opportunity to potentially give some minutes a young forward and instead brought in a 30something veteran. Obviously we got promoted, and that's what we all wanted, but clearly he wanted to fill out the squad with veteran players rather than take opportunities to give spare minutes to youth.

[TJR]

I’m not sure if there was an overlap, but was Jesus Gamez brought in around the time we had Tavernier? On the theme of brining in old heads...

Or how about Daryl Murphy brought in as forward depth for that Championship season? There was an opportunity to potentially give some minutes a young forward and instead brought in a 30something veteran. Obviously we got promoted, and that's what we all wanted, but clearly he wanted to fill out the squad with veteran players rather than take opportunities to give spare minutes to youth.

We only just won the league. It certainly wasn't an easy ride and the experience we brought in were key to it. Daryl Murphy in particular scored some massive goals, Brentford away after Gayle got injured and Huddersfield away are examples.

As good as Armstrong is at that level now, he wasn't ready back then. His loan moves and subsequent sale have helped him develop into the player he is now. I don't think we would have won the league without bringing in experienced players at that level and Daryl Murphy in particular played a massive role as a squad player.

That Brentford away game was one of the defining moments of the season for me. Things were beginning to unravel and especially when Gayle picked up that injury things were looking bad. Murphy (and Perez with his great outside of the boot cross) won that game for us and that was a massive moment.

[Colly]

Yeah Daryl Murphy did a great job, even if I give him bonus points for being the last Newcastle player ever to be older than me. Unless we randomly sign Petr Cech or similar.

[bodacious benny]

Yeah Daryl Murphy did a great job, even if I give him bonus points for being the last Newcastle player ever to be older than me. Unless we randomly sign Petr Cech or similar.

That’s a random thing to know!

[Colly]

Tend to flick through the programme in the 15 mins before kickoff. He's only a month older than me too.

[ALF]

Or how about Daryl Murphy brought in as forward depth for that Championship season? There was an opportunity to potentially give some minutes a young forward and instead brought in a 30something veteran. Obviously we got promoted, and that's what we all wanted, but clearly he wanted to fill out the squad with veteran players rather than take opportunities to give spare minutes to youth.

We only just won the league. It certainly wasn't an easy ride and the experience we brought in were key to it. Daryl Murphy in particular scored some massive goals, Brentford away after Gayle got injured and Huddersfield away are examples.

As good as Armstrong is at that level now, he wasn't ready back then. His loan moves and subsequent sale have helped him develop into the player he is now. I don't think we would have won the league without bringing in experienced players at that level and Daryl Murphy in particular played a massive role as a squad player.

That Brentford away game was one of the defining moments of the season for me. Things were beginning to unravel and especially when Gayle picked up that injury things were looking bad. Murphy (and Perez with his great outside of the boot cross) won that game for us and that was a massive moment.

Murphy did well but who's to say Mitrovic wouldn't have done better? His minutes per goal/assist ratio that season was incredible.

'We only just won the league' isn't a defence, we should have walked that league. It was probably the best squad to ever be relegated.

Armstrong probably was ready back then. Truth is we won't ever know. He'd just scored 20 goals in League One, natural progression means he deserved a chance in the Championship. Spending the best part of 3 years at newly promoted clubs meant he got minimal service and was playing in poor sides. Giving him decent minutes from the bench and occasionally from the start in the best team in the league might have got him to his current standard a lot sooner. Instead we inexplicably played Diame in attacking midfield and Murphy got minutes up front.

[Colly]

We only just won the league. It certainly wasn't an easy ride and the experience we brought in were key to it. Daryl Murphy in particular scored some massive goals, Brentford away after Gayle got injured and Huddersfield away are examples.

As good as Armstrong is at that level now, he wasn't ready back then. His loan moves and subsequent sale have helped him develop into the player he is now. I don't think we would have won the league without bringing in experienced players at that level and Daryl Murphy in particular played a massive role as a squad player.

That Brentford away game was one of the defining moments of the season for me. Things were beginning to unravel and especially when Gayle picked up that injury things were looking bad. Murphy (and Perez with his great outside of the boot cross) won that game for us and that was a massive moment.

Murphy did well but who's to say Mitrovic wouldn't have done better? His minutes per goal/assist ratio that season was incredible.

'We only just won the league' isn't a defence, we should have walked that league. It was probably the best squad to ever be relegated.

Armstrong probably was ready back then. Truth is we won't ever know. He'd just scored 20 goals in League One, natural progression means he deserved a chance in the Championship. Spending the best part of 3 years at newly promoted clubs meant he got minimal service and was playing in poor sides. Giving him decent minutes from the bench and occasionally from the start in the best team in the league might have got him to his current standard a lot sooner. Instead we inexplicably played Diame in attacking midfield and Murphy got minutes up front.

I think again this just comes down to issues with Rafa in general. He'd already decided against Mitrovic by the time we started that season, and I distinctly remember him warming up multiple times away at Barnsley but never coming on. He was a cult hero with the fans by that point, and I don't think Rafa liked that. The fact that we scraped the title sums up that season for me in comparison to Hughton walking it.

I still see Murphy as a sensible experienced signing though.

[Remember Colo]

I didn't mean to imply Murphy played poorly - he absolutely did his part. It was only to highlight that there was a clear preference for safe-floor experienced players than to rely on younger players stepping up to the challenge. I'm not even saying that was necessarily the wrong decision, but it is that recurring approach thats ensured we often only find out if young players are more than potential when they move on elsewhere.

[bodacious benny]

Same thing could happen with Andersen, hopefully if we’re mathematically safe after next weekend he gets some game time, but I doubt he will.

[Colly]

I'd be impressed if Bruce even knows who he is.

[Valentino's fast feet]

Woodman is the next one I'm concerned about. Can see him going a similar route to Forster. Can definitely see him spending another season at Swansea. If they come up could even go permanently this summer. Athletic reporting that quite a few prem clubs are taking a serious look at Toney, so more likely than not will see him in the premier league next season. Everton and Leicester the names they fancy the most.

[bodacious benny]

30 goals and 10 assists is an incredible season in the Championship, he's the same age as Watkins so easily looking at £25m again if a prem club wants him. I'd like to see Brentford win the playoffs, they've been right in the mix the last couple of seasons but fallen just short. They seem to play decent football and have a good manager, would be good to see them in the Prem.

Agree about Woodman. With Dubravka being 32 (not old for a keeper) he still has several seasons left in him so barring injury it's hard to see where Woodman would get a chance. He' too good to be a back-up keeper, and we wouldn't rotate keepers.

[ALF]

Murphy did well but who's to say Mitrovic wouldn't have done better? His minutes per goal/assist ratio that season was incredible.

'We only just won the league' isn't a defence, we should have walked that league. It was probably the best squad to ever be relegated.

Armstrong probably was ready back then. Truth is we won't ever know. He'd just scored 20 goals in League One, natural progression means he deserved a chance in the Championship. Spending the best part of 3 years at newly promoted clubs meant he got minimal service and was playing in poor sides. Giving him decent minutes from the bench and occasionally from the start in the best team in the league might have got him to his current standard a lot sooner. Instead we inexplicably played Diame in attacking midfield and Murphy got minutes up front.

I think again this just comes down to issues with Rafa in general. He'd already decided against Mitrovic by the time we started that season, and I distinctly remember him warming up multiple times away at Barnsley but never coming on. He was a cult hero with the fans by that point, and I don't think Rafa liked that. The fact that we scraped the title sums up that season for me in comparison to Hughton walking it.

I still see Murphy as a sensible experienced signing though.

Listening to this weeks episode of That Peter Crouch Podcast, Crouch talks about how he scored 2 before half time against Birmingham. He said to Rafa at half time he was feeling the hat trick and begged him to stay on (and Rafa agreed) only for Rafa to take him off 10 minutes into the second half. I'm sure another player has spoken about how he hated players getting hat tricks.

[Valentino's fast feet]

Blackburn's manager has come out and essentially said Armstrong is for sale. Come and give us money so we can rebuild our squad. Reports that he'd cost "only" 16m, plenty of prem clubs would take the gamble at that price. 29 goals this season. West Ham strongly linked as well of us. Would be a more realistic alternative to Abraham. If we continue with the current formation, he could provide cover/rotation with both Wilson and ASM as no doubt both will be out at times to injury.