Match Thread - Brentford v Newcastle (LC QF)

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Re: Match Thread - Brentford v Newcastle (LC QF)

Post by seaside nipper » Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:09 pm

"Unfortunately, we haven't done enough,......” post match.
Ffs yes Steve, yet again, the same old tired mantra, once more.
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Re: Match Thread - Brentford v Newcastle (LC QF)

Post by Captain Obvious » Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:46 pm

Rafa made Sean Longstaff look like a player. There was talk of Manchester United and £50m. Bruce makes him look like a fan who has won a competition. There's only one man to blame here. He's out of his depth. History has shown that time and time again. Sad times.

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Re: Match Thread - Brentford v Newcastle (LC QF)

Post by Slim999 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:11 pm

Sanchino wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:41 pm
Slim999 wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:07 pm
Having watched Fulham a few times - and realising that they actually have a fair bit more than us- my arse is starting to twitch again looking at the foot of the table.

Burnley stating to motor , Brighton better than us, as are Palace ( by a mile 🤔)

the only teams looking like relegation certs are West Brom and Sheff utd

After that I would say we are least good.

We've managed to accrue 18 pts which is good but ......Worrying times
This. We won't be getting any points until we play Sheffield United on the 12th Jan.. even then knowing us it'll be typical Newcastle manner to lose / draw. Surely if we lose our next three games, get knocked out from the FA Cup and don't win at against Sheffield United.. Bruce will have to go!

Need a positive, fresh & cultured manager with a clear attacking philosophy who wants to entertain and play on the front foot. Our strongest XI has potential to be nearer the top half but instead we're losing to a Championship side who put there ''B'' team out. Awful.

Outplayed, outfought & out of his depth. #BruceOut
Not sure we can get a cultured manager with Ashley at the helm . This is why we have Bruce .

In Newcastle's favour RE relegation- we do have the capacity to surprise .
Also although our starting 11 is probably bottom 6 - our squad depth is a bit more than some others.

Perhaps Bruce will splash a few million in Jan. We could do with a bit of real dynamism either in central or attacking midfield.

I honestly dont believe Joelinton has the ability to be a top player- think we should recoup 20m if possible - assuming we can replace

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Re: Match Thread - Brentford v Newcastle (LC QF)

Post by ALF » Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:46 pm

Captain Obvious wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:46 pm
Rafa made Sean Longstaff look like a player. There was talk of Manchester United and £50m. Bruce makes him look like a fan who has won a competition. There's only one man to blame here. He's out of his depth. History has shown that time and time again. Sad times.
He made 6 tackles against Fulham. For context our team only made 12. Nice to see he's the new scapegoat. Our fans hate local players, it's f***ing bizarre.

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Re: Match Thread - Brentford v Newcastle (LC QF)

Post by Bodacious Benny » Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:36 am

ALF wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:46 pm
Captain Obvious wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:46 pm
Rafa made Sean Longstaff look like a player. There was talk of Manchester United and £50m. Bruce makes him look like a fan who has won a competition. There's only one man to blame here. He's out of his depth. History has shown that time and time again. Sad times.
He made 6 tackles against Fulham. For context our team only made 12. Nice to see he's the new scapegoat. Our fans hate local players, it's f***ing bizarre.
He, like pretty much every player has looked absolute dross over the last few weeks. It’s nothing to do with being local, he has been crap regardless of if he made 6 tackles in a game or not. You can’t deny that he has been very poor since his comeback from injury, I can think of maybe one decent game he’s had.

Same with ASM, other than one or two games he has been crap and he’s not local. Joelinton is as far removed from local as you can get abs he gets pelters, Murphy gets slammed as soon as he misplaces a pass, Lewis is taking a lot of flak - where they’re from has nothing to do with it.

The coaching is horrendous, that’s the issue.
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Re: Match Thread - Brentford v Newcastle (LC QF)

Post by Vaj » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:14 am

I am nervous every time Sean Longstaff gets the ball when under pressure, never seen someone so slow and unaware of their surroundings. I think we need to start playing Matty Longstaff as there is no energy at all in the midfield. Longstaff, Shelvey, Hayden and Hendrick must be the slowest, least energetic central midfield the Premier League has ever seen!

Jamal Lewis, for me, is one of the worst signings I have seen at Newcastle in regards to what I was expecting to get to the reality. Every pass is backwards, he never tries to beat his man, he is weak and gets beaten far too easily.

Will be interesting to see how close we are to the bottom three when we inevitably lose the next three matches. Ashley won't get rid of him until we are in the bottom three so it looks like we will be stuck with what I would say is the worst football I have ever seen at this club.

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Re: Match Thread - Brentford v Newcastle (LC QF)

Post by Colly » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:17 am

He hasn't been great, but at the same time I don't think "Rafa made him a player". He's not the first player to have a good breakout run of games before fading a little, otherwise we'd be blaming a manager for the decline of superstar Jak Alnwick.

I do still think he's got potential, but the way our midfield works doesn't suit any player or any team. His pass to Murphy last night where he fluffed a decent chance was lovely, and a step above all the floaty long balls Shelvey was playing all game. With a good coach and an actual midfield partner he could be a player.

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Re: Match Thread - Brentford v Newcastle (LC QF)

Post by Bodacious Benny » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:28 am

Vaj wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:14 am
Jamal Lewis, for me, is one of the worst signings I have seen at Newcastle in regards to what I was expecting to get to the reality. Every pass is backwards, he never tries to beat his man, he is weak and gets beaten far too easily.
Bit harsh but depends how long you’ve been watching us. We signed him as a young player with potential who has only had one season in the PL in a relegated team.

He doesn’t even make my top 20 of worst signings. He’s shot of any confidence.
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Re: Match Thread - Brentford v Newcastle (LC QF)

Post by Vaj » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:32 am

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:28 am
Vaj wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:14 am
Jamal Lewis, for me, is one of the worst signings I have seen at Newcastle in regards to what I was expecting to get to the reality. Every pass is backwards, he never tries to beat his man, he is weak and gets beaten far too easily.
Bit harsh but depends how long you’ve been watching us. We signed him as a young player with potential who has only had one season in the PL in a relegated team.

He doesn’t even make my top 20 of worst signings. He’s shot of any confidence.
As I said, it is more that I was expecting a lot more. He has plenty of time to turn it around and maybe a different manager would get a lot more out of him. But at the moment he doesn't look like a professional footballer.

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Re: Match Thread - Brentford v Newcastle (LC QF)

Post by originallad » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:35 am

I'd like to see Longstaff dropped for Hendrick, or Shelvey. I just want to see Hendrick in the middle where he actually plays.

We don't have anyone in midfield to take the game by the scruff of the neck atm (I'm not saying Hendrick is the saviour btw). Hayden does his defensive job well but he's not going to drive the ball forward. Shelvey doesn't, Longstaff doesn't. We need to bring in an attacking central midfield player this Jan.

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Re: Match Thread - Brentford v Newcastle (LC QF)

Post by Vaj » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:38 am

originallad wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:35 am
I'd like to see Longstaff dropped for Hendrick, or Shelvey. I just want to see Hendrick in the middle where he actually plays.

We don't have anyone in midfield to take the game by the scruff of the neck atm (I'm not saying Hendrick is the saviour btw). Hayden does his defensive job well but he's not going to drive the ball forward. Shelvey doesn't, Longstaff doesn't. We need to bring in an attacking central midfield player this Jan.
Barkley would have been a good option in the summer. We could also do with signing a central midfielder similar in style to Anguissa and Bissouma. I really like Hayden but if we ever got a manager in that wanted to actually play football then Hayden wouldn't be the answer, he is perfect for the way Bruce sets us up.

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Re: Match Thread - Brentford v Newcastle (LC QF)

Post by Bodacious Benny » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:43 am

Yeah Barkley would have been ideal, or RLC although he’s been out for a long time and still working on his fitness.
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Re: Match Thread - Brentford v Newcastle (LC QF)

Post by Toondes » Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:25 am

CIH wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:37 pm
If the big man does do what seems unlikely and gets rid of cabbage head, who would people want to come in? We don't exactly have great draw power at the minute. I'd quite like to look at Eddie Howe, but not sure the feeling will be mutual haha.
Defo wouldn’t want Howe - might as well stick with Bruce if that’s the case
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Re: Match Thread - Brentford v Newcastle (LC QF)

Post by originallad » Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:48 am

Toondes wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:25 am
CIH wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:37 pm
If the big man does do what seems unlikely and gets rid of cabbage head, who would people want to come in? We don't exactly have great draw power at the minute. I'd quite like to look at Eddie Howe, but not sure the feeling will be mutual haha.
Defo wouldn’t want Howe - might as well stick with Bruce if that’s the case
Agreed. We need an upgrade on Bruce. Howe would be a sidestep.

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Re: Match Thread - Brentford v Newcastle (LC QF)

Post by CIH » Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:16 pm

But are we realistically going to get an actual upgrade? Who do you think would/could come in under the Ashley regime?

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Re: Match Thread - Brentford v Newcastle (LC QF)

Post by Sanchino » Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:09 pm

CIH wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:37 pm
If the big man does do what seems unlikely and gets rid of cabbage head, who would people want to come in? We don't exactly have great draw power at the minute. I'd quite like to look at Eddie Howe, but not sure the feeling will be mutual haha.
I would love Eddie Howe. Took Bournemouth from League One to the Prem. Established them as a entertaining and easy to watch mid-table Premier League side which managed to finish 9th one season. Yes last season it went pear shaped, conceding goals, being too leaky, too weak and too lightweight but they were always pushing above there weight in the previous seasons it was one season too many, they never had massive financial backing especially with a average attendance of just over 10k and Howe maybe just needed a fresh start, after nearly a decade with them things just got stall but I guarantee he'll do well at our club with better players at his disposal and of course the Fraser-Wilson connection. He'll get us playing easy on the eye possession based attacking football and even if we do get some heavy thumping's at least it'll be fun to watch instead of this negative dross we have to witness nearly every week. <urgh>

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Re: Match Thread - Brentford v Newcastle (LC QF)

Post by originallad » Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:27 pm

Sanchino wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:09 pm
CIH wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:37 pm
If the big man does do what seems unlikely and gets rid of cabbage head, who would people want to come in? We don't exactly have great draw power at the minute. I'd quite like to look at Eddie Howe, but not sure the feeling will be mutual haha.
I would love Eddie Howe. Took Bournemouth from League One to the Prem. Established them as a entertaining and easy to watch mid-table Premier League side which managed to finish 9th one season. Yes last season it went pear shaped, conceding goals, being too leaky, too weak and too lightweight but they were always pushing above there weight in the previous seasons it was one season too many, they never had massive financial backing especially with a average attendance of just over 10k and Howe maybe just needed a fresh start, after nearly a decade with them things just got stall but I guarantee he'll do well at our club with better players at his disposal and of course the Fraser-Wilson connection. He'll get us playing easy on the eye possession based attacking football and even if we do get some heavy thumping's at least it'll be fun to watch instead of this negative dross we have to witness nearly every week. <urgh>
Fair point. With a bit more financial backing and better players then he had at Bournemouth he would, now that I think about it, probably do a better job then Bruce. We would certainly be more pleasing to the eye. Let's face it though, nothing is going to really massively change until we get new owners.

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Re: Match Thread - Brentford v Newcastle (LC QF)

Post by Bodacious Benny » Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:48 pm

10 years ago Bournemouth were bottom of league two with -17 points, them getting to the premiership and staying there for several seasons is almost as remarkable as Leicester winning the league. Howe played a huge part in that and I think to an extent some of it was just a case of things naturally coming to their conclusion. He’d be an interesting punt, perhaps a bit tactically naive but at least he has some tactics and vision unlike Bruce.

Funnily enough, he did get backed quite well in the last couple of seasons he was there but made some questionable signings. Lerma was £25m, Solanke £19m and Ibe £15m (who was then released on a free). That’s a huge amount for Bournemouth.

On the flip side he also signed Ake for £20m and Wilson for £3m so swings and roundabouts. I think he’d try and deliver a project here, and would work with limited funds. Don’t forget that up to his last season at Bournemouth he was heavily linked with some big jobs such as Everton and Arsenal. Maybe a break out of the game will have done him the world of good.
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Re: Match Thread - Brentford v Newcastle (LC QF)

Post by Sanchino » Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:30 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:48 pm
10 years ago Bournemouth were bottom of league two with -17 points, them getting to the premiership and staying there for several seasons is almost as remarkable as Leicester winning the league. Howe played a huge part in that and I think to an extent some of it was just a case of things naturally coming to their conclusion. He’d be an interesting punt, perhaps a bit tactically naive but at least he has some tactics and vision unlike Bruce.

Funnily enough, he did get backed quite well in the last couple of seasons he was there but made some questionable signings. Lerma was £25m, Solanke £19m and Ibe £15m (who was then released on a free). That’s a huge amount for Bournemouth.

On the flip side he also signed Ake for £20m and Wilson for £3m so swings and roundabouts. I think he’d try and deliver a project here, and would work with limited funds. Don’t forget that up to his last season at Bournemouth he was heavily linked with some big jobs such as Everton and Arsenal. Maybe a break out of the game will have done him the world of good.
Excellent point. <ok> <applause>

Solanke wasn't ever worth that much but he's doing alright in the Championship so far, still only 23 so still got many years left to develop and further his potential. He was too green for the Prem though, especially for that amount of money we got Wilson for 20m so shows you the difference in quality but a good season in the Champ could boost his confidence and experience so next time he's in the Prem things could be different for him. David Brooks for 11m was a good buy, probably worth double/triple that now.. he bought King for 1m who scored double figures in 2 Prem seasons (16-17 & 18-19).. was linked to United & Everton. Hearing Villa want him for next month.. I think he'll be a good signing for us not only cause of the Wilson-Fraser connection but he'll be a better option out-wide than Murphy, Hendrick, etc & he's better than Gayle/Joelinton upfront. Give them Gayle & 5m.. isn't his contract due to expire next summer?

In conclusion.. Howe would be better than Bruce, I'm not saying he'll be a big/massive upgrade on him but significant enough tactically & mentally to make a difference. He may be stuck in his ways regarding how to play the game, can be too stubborn for his own good and there's doubts if he even has plan B or C if plan A doesn't work but entertainment wise we'll be much easier on the eye, we'll take a couple thumping's on the way but we'll also win in style, confidence and we'll be on the front foot attacking and I'm sure he'll want our players to be confident and comfortable with the ball, being able to make intricate tiki-taka passes and through balls. Isn't that what we want all along? A bit of excitement and entertaining football isn't too hard to ask is it? Our possession in games will be better and we'll be able to control games more, the issue has always been with Howe is that his team didn't always translate that possession into goal and sometimes they played too many passes for there own good which messed attacking moves up.. similar to Arsene's Arsenal they tried to be too precise, intricate and accurate with there passing and how a goal should be scored that they forgot what matters is not just possession but quick possession football with a purpose to score, a similar thing happened to Swansea they were excellent in possession and with the ball but always had a thin layer in defense and were to easy to score against and could have 60-70% possession but still lose matches.

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Re: Match Thread - Brentford v Newcastle (LC QF)

Post by ALF » Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:29 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:36 am
ALF wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:46 pm


He made 6 tackles against Fulham. For context our team only made 12. Nice to see he's the new scapegoat. Our fans hate local players, it's f***ing bizarre.
He, like pretty much every player has looked absolute dross over the last few weeks. It’s nothing to do with being local, he has been crap regardless of if he made 6 tackles in a game or not. You can’t deny that he has been very poor since his comeback from injury, I can think of maybe one decent game he’s had.

Same with ASM, other than one or two games he has been crap and he’s not local. Joelinton is as far removed from local as you can get abs he gets pelters, Murphy gets slammed as soon as he misplaces a pass, Lewis is taking a lot of flak - where they’re from has nothing to do with it.

The coaching is horrendous, that’s the issue.
He's not been great. He was clearly one of our best 2 players against Fulham though and he was still getting abuse. Hayden and Shelvey have been far worse recently yet they get minimal abuse compared to Longstaff. There are examples of other scapegoats that aren't local admittedly, but every youngster we bring through(and there isn't many) has the fans turn on them quickly.

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