Match Thread: Sheffield Utd v Newcastle

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Re: Match Thread: Sheffield Utd v Newcastle

Post by Captain Obvious » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:26 pm

It's all what ifs isn't it. How at risk do we think Cabbage is?

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Re: Match Thread: Sheffield Utd v Newcastle

Post by Bodacious Benny » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:53 pm

Captain Obvious wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:26 pm
It's all what ifs isn't it. How at risk do we think Cabbage is?
I'm going to say 'not very'.

We kept Pardew far longer than we should have, can't see them booting Bruce out any time soon.
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Re: Match Thread: Sheffield Utd v Newcastle

Post by Remember Colo » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:00 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:53 pm
Captain Obvious wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:26 pm
It's all what ifs isn't it. How at risk do we think Cabbage is?
I'm going to say 'not very'.

We kept Pardew far longer than we should have, can't see them booting Bruce out any time soon.
To be fair, Pardew actually had that one really good year to hang his hat on, while Bruce doesn't have the same. Let's keep in mind that McClaren (rightly) didn't even make it through a season.

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Re: Match Thread: Sheffield Utd v Newcastle

Post by Bodacious Benny » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:00 pm

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Re: Match Thread: Sheffield Utd v Newcastle

Post by ALF » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:44 pm

Cal wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:35 am
Speedo wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:31 am


Neil Readfern fell out with somebody. I think the caretaker manager would either be Ben Dawson or Chris Hogg, the U23s boss. Can’t be worse than Bruce.

We fundamentally need a system manager though. I’d take any manager who has a clear vision of how we play - are there any more Graham Potters hanging about...
I'd take anyone who has played Football Manager before over Bruce...
Steve Bruce wrote:"We've been trying something different because over the last few weeks we've struggled going forward, so my thoughts were to get Ryan (Fraser), someone fresh, and Sean (Longstaff) higher up the pitch where he could be a goal threat. Unfortunately that didn't happen."
He has got zero idea about football. The man has blagged a managerial career just because he could play at a high level.

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Re: Match Thread: Sheffield Utd v Newcastle

Post by CIH » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:11 pm

ALF wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:44 pm
Cal wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:35 am


I'd take anyone who has played Football Manager before over Bruce...

He has got zero idea about football. The man has blagged a managerial career just because he could play at a high level.
It definitely seems that way now, but I don't think he blagged anything. He did good work at Wigan way back when. Was alright at Sunderland really, arguably had them punching at one point. He's washed up now, and quite clearly is out of depth. I think he's just got jaded after a very long career. Over 40 years in football? I genuinely don't think he cares anymore.

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Re: Match Thread: Sheffield Utd v Newcastle

Post by krully » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:54 pm

hasnt moved with the times, chronic with a lot of the usual crowd that were a dime a dozen decades ago and now him and Sam are the last ones

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Re: Match Thread: Sheffield Utd v Newcastle

Post by ALF » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:33 pm

CIH wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:11 pm
ALF wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:44 pm


He has got zero idea about football. The man has blagged a managerial career just because he could play at a high level.
It definitely seems that way now, but I don't think he blagged anything. He did good work at Wigan way back when. Was alright at Sunderland really, arguably had them punching at one point. He's washed up now, and quite clearly is out of depth. I think he's just got jaded after a very long career. Over 40 years in football? I genuinely don't think he cares anymore.
Sunderland viewed him as outdated a decade ago. His win percentage at Sunderland was under 30 and he blamed his sacking on the fact that he was a Newcastle fan.

I think his whole ethos as a manager is summed up by the crap he spouts regularly. He gets results early on by being gritty and getting lucky.

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Re: Match Thread: Sheffield Utd v Newcastle

Post by CIH » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:55 pm

ALF wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:33 pm
CIH wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:11 pm


It definitely seems that way now, but I don't think he blagged anything. He did good work at Wigan way back when. Was alright at Sunderland really, arguably had them punching at one point. He's washed up now, and quite clearly is out of depth. I think he's just got jaded after a very long career. Over 40 years in football? I genuinely don't think he cares anymore.
Sunderland viewed him as outdated a decade ago. His win percentage at Sunderland was under 30 and he blamed his sacking on the fact that he was a Newcastle fan.

I think his whole ethos as a manager is summed up by the crap he spouts regularly. He gets results early on by being gritty and getting lucky.
To be fair he was sacked almost a decade a go, so that seems fair <laugh> I do see your point, and agree with the rest of what you say though. He's s****.

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Re: Match Thread: Sheffield Utd v Newcastle

Post by Remember Colo » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:06 am

CIH wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:11 pm
ALF wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:44 pm


He has got zero idea about football. The man has blagged a managerial career just because he could play at a high level.
It definitely seems that way now, but I don't think he blagged anything. He did good work at Wigan way back when. Was alright at Sunderland really, arguably had them punching at one point. He's washed up now, and quite clearly is out of depth. I think he's just got jaded after a very long career. Over 40 years in football? I genuinely don't think he cares anymore.
I completely agree on all points except the last one. I think it's unfair to presume a lack of care because of his lack of skill. If anything, I think he cares too much about the Newcastle job, which has resulted in him being even more risk-adverse than ever. He's too afraid, and too devoid of new ideas, and his insecurity has been projected onto the team now too. He has no confidence in them to play another way, just as he lacks the talent to instill another way. I think we will likely survive relegation for now, but I can't see him ever meaningfully turning it around.

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Re: Match Thread: Sheffield Utd v Newcastle

Post by gola » Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:11 am

good point

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Re: Match Thread: Sheffield Utd v Newcastle

Post by Bodacious Benny » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:41 am

In theory, if he keeps us up then goes in summer he can walk away saying 'I kept them up for two seasons' and from the outside it'll look fine on his record. Though at the moment we're counting on Burnley, Brighton and Fulham not picking up many wins, there's a very real chance that some of those will start winning more games and overtake us.
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Re: Match Thread: Sheffield Utd v Newcastle

Post by Colback's Orange Tufts » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:57 am

Yeah I've always through Bruce is a decent man who clearly cares. But he's naturally risk averse and the situation at nufc has brought this out.
I'd imagine the COVID outbreak has made him more worried as well.

This does not excuse it all though. Even how badly the club is run, it doesn't excuse the passivity of our play. You can put pressure on the ball with pretty much any squad. But Bruce has mainly made a choice not to.
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Re: Match Thread: Sheffield Utd v Newcastle

Post by Captain Obvious » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:15 am

I think football has just moved on and left him behind. It’s not longer about contacts and firing players up knowing that everyone plays the same 4-4-2. It’s move past him. Covid hasn’t helped, results we’re looking ok till the outbreak but the football was still pathetic and, for me, that team selection versus Sheffield United was indicative of a man who maybe doesn’t want to be here any more.

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Re: Match Thread: Sheffield Utd v Newcastle

Post by Bodacious Benny » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:30 am

Captain Obvious wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:15 am
For me, that team selection versus Sheffield United was indicative of a man who maybe doesn’t want to be here any more.
I didn't have much hope in him anyway, but when I saw that team selection and shutting up shop against the worst team in the league that was it for me. Under Bruce we've hardly won any games at all playing 5 at the back and he keeps doing it regardless of opposition.

Where's Lewis? Where's Manquillo? Why didn't Matty Longstaff play? He was rested v Arsenal on the back of two good performances where he actually injected a bit of energy into our midfield and then he's dropped again and doesn't even come off the bench v Sheffield Utd. It makes no sense. Yedlin was nowhere to be seen for most of the season and is now playing every game, where was he before? His persistence with Joelinton playing most matches. We struggle to score and people like Gayle (admittedly not great but at least offers some threat) rarely play. Almiron in and out of the team and played in a variety of positions. There is no plan at all.
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Re: Match Thread: Sheffield Utd v Newcastle

Post by biggeordiedave » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:50 am

It's almost like he hasn't got a f***ing clue what he's doing <scratch>
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Re: Match Thread: Sheffield Utd v Newcastle

Post by Colly » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:37 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:30 am
Captain Obvious wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:15 am
For me, that team selection versus Sheffield United was indicative of a man who maybe doesn’t want to be here any more.
I didn't have much hope in him anyway, but when I saw that team selection and shutting up shop against the worst team in the league that was it for me. Under Bruce we've hardly won any games at all playing 5 at the back and he keeps doing it regardless of opposition.

Where's Lewis? Where's Manquillo? Why didn't Matty Longstaff play? He was rested v Arsenal on the back of two good performances where he actually injected a bit of energy into our midfield and then he's dropped again and doesn't even come off the bench v Sheffield Utd. It makes no sense. Yedlin was nowhere to be seen for most of the season and is now playing every game, where was he before? His persistence with Joelinton playing most matches. We struggle to score and people like Gayle (admittedly not great but at least offers some threat) rarely play. Almiron in and out of the team and played in a variety of positions. There is no plan at all.
I actually think a few of those are defendable (Lewis and Manquillo weren't in the squad so presumably are injured, and Yedlin has justified his place over Farth. Plus Joelinton hasn't been that bad, even more so in comparison with Frasers contribution).

The problem is even with a couple of players out there's still enough there to not put square pegs in round holes, so to even consider Dummett at wing back in a back five against a s*** team sums the whole thing up before you even start to move forward. He made some lame excuse about letting Longstaff get forward, if that was the case where the hell was Jeff playing? We played with a back 5 with one vaguely attacking player, 3 CMs who clearly didn't know where they were meant to be, Fraser who ended up doing a bit of a Miggy role (i.e. far too much defending) and Wilson 40 yards from everyone chasing long balls.

With Dummett left in a four we could still have played the three midfielders with a bit of actual shape, and had Almiron or Joelinton supporting Fraser (or Matty Longstaff either there or as part of the three) behind Wilson. He's got no faith whatsoever in our defense despite them being very decent (even Schar has recovered his form), which means we end up with our midfield over protecting them, which perversely means we get attacked all game and concede goals if we slip up once in 90 minutes. Against Liverpool we gave them some defending to think about, why the f*** would you not do the same against a team with 2 points in half a season?

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Re: Match Thread: Sheffield Utd v Newcastle

Post by Bodacious Benny » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:09 pm

Colly wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:37 pm
Bodacious Benny wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:30 am


I didn't have much hope in him anyway, but when I saw that team selection and shutting up shop against the worst team in the league that was it for me. Under Bruce we've hardly won any games at all playing 5 at the back and he keeps doing it regardless of opposition.

Where's Lewis? Where's Manquillo? Why didn't Matty Longstaff play? He was rested v Arsenal on the back of two good performances where he actually injected a bit of energy into our midfield and then he's dropped again and doesn't even come off the bench v Sheffield Utd. It makes no sense. Yedlin was nowhere to be seen for most of the season and is now playing every game, where was he before? His persistence with Joelinton playing most matches. We struggle to score and people like Gayle (admittedly not great but at least offers some threat) rarely play. Almiron in and out of the team and played in a variety of positions. There is no plan at all.
I actually think a few of those are defendable (Lewis and Manquillo weren't in the squad so presumably are injured, and Yedlin has justified his place over Farth. Plus Joelinton hasn't been that bad, even more so in comparison with Frasers contribution).

The problem is even with a couple of players out there's still enough there to not put square pegs in round holes, so to even consider Dummett at wing back in a back five against a s*** team sums the whole thing up before you even start to move forward. He made some lame excuse about letting Longstaff get forward, if that was the case where the hell was Jeff playing? We played with a back 5 with one vaguely attacking player, 3 CMs who clearly didn't know where they were meant to be, Fraser who ended up doing a bit of a Miggy role (i.e. far too much defending) and Wilson 40 yards from everyone chasing long balls.

With Dummett left in a four we could still have played the three midfielders with a bit of actual shape, and had Almiron or Joelinton supporting Fraser (or Matty Longstaff either there or as part of the three) behind Wilson. He's got no faith whatsoever in our defense despite them being very decent (even Schar has recovered his form), which means we end up with our midfield over protecting them, which perversely means we get attacked all game and concede goals if we slip up once in 90 minutes. Against Liverpool we gave them some defending to think about, why the **** would you not do the same against a team with 2 points in half a season?
I agree that Yedlin deserves his place, it was more that he barely got a kick for the first 3 months of the season then all of a sudden he’s starting week in week out when surely he was there as an option previously? It’s worked for Yedlin, but too often he’ll bring someone in from nowhere, give them two or three games then they vanish again.

I’m also still surprised that Lejeune was deemed fifth choice CB so allowed to leave on loan. Again it just shows there isn’t really a plan.
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Re: Match Thread: Sheffield Utd v Newcastle

Post by ALF » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:40 pm

Colly wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:37 pm
Bodacious Benny wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:30 am


I didn't have much hope in him anyway, but when I saw that team selection and shutting up shop against the worst team in the league that was it for me. Under Bruce we've hardly won any games at all playing 5 at the back and he keeps doing it regardless of opposition.

Where's Lewis? Where's Manquillo? Why didn't Matty Longstaff play? He was rested v Arsenal on the back of two good performances where he actually injected a bit of energy into our midfield and then he's dropped again and doesn't even come off the bench v Sheffield Utd. It makes no sense. Yedlin was nowhere to be seen for most of the season and is now playing every game, where was he before? His persistence with Joelinton playing most matches. We struggle to score and people like Gayle (admittedly not great but at least offers some threat) rarely play. Almiron in and out of the team and played in a variety of positions. There is no plan at all.
I actually think a few of those are defendable (Lewis and Manquillo weren't in the squad so presumably are injured, and Yedlin has justified his place over Farth. Plus Joelinton hasn't been that bad, even more so in comparison with Frasers contribution).

The problem is even with a couple of players out there's still enough there to not put square pegs in round holes, so to even consider Dummett at wing back in a back five against a s*** team sums the whole thing up before you even start to move forward. He made some lame excuse about letting Longstaff get forward, if that was the case where the hell was Jeff playing? We played with a back 5 with one vaguely attacking player, 3 CMs who clearly didn't know where they were meant to be, Fraser who ended up doing a bit of a Miggy role (i.e. far too much defending) and Wilson 40 yards from everyone chasing long balls.

With Dummett left in a four we could still have played the three midfielders with a bit of actual shape, and had Almiron or Joelinton supporting Fraser (or Matty Longstaff either there or as part of the three) behind Wilson. He's got no faith whatsoever in our defense despite them being very decent (even Schar has recovered his form), which means we end up with our midfield over protecting them, which perversely means we get attacked all game and concede goals if we slip up once in 90 minutes. Against Liverpool we gave them some defending to think about, why the f*** would you not do the same against a team with 2 points in half a season?
Longstaff and Fraser were 'false 10's' apparently. He's said in the past that he doesn't believe in tactics and it shows. We have 1 CM(or is that false 10?) pressing constantly whilst the others usually drop off. This leaves a big hole in the middle where Longstaff should be if we're playing compact and makes him look silly as he attempts a one man press on 4 or 5 players. Even at a Sunday League level my managers have always made the point to press as a team and drop as a team.

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Re: Match Thread: Sheffield Utd v Newcastle

Post by Colly » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:23 pm

They must have been very false 10s!

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