Bruce staying

[originallad]

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/f ... n=sharebar

According to the Chronicle, Ashley is sticking with Bruce.

[Cal]

It's alright, I'm sure Bruce saw some positives, just need to dust themselves down and give it a good go next time.

[HowayTheLads]

I'm done.

As I have said to non-supporting friends and colleagues, what infuriates me the most is not that we don't spend gazillions on players, aren't in the top six and qualifying for Europe. Not every club can do that and no club has a god given right to be up there. What infuriates me is that, at the very heart of Newcastle United, is a football team. A sports club. A set of professional sports people. The very essence, the point of sport, is to compete. To be ambitious and to want to win. Not everyone can win, most won't, but the point is to have the mindset, ambition and drive to try and compete. We do not have that. We are one of a very few sports clubs - and I will continue to use that phrase to emphasise the point - whose sole ambition is to standstill. It has been that way since Ashley took over and will not change with him in charge and the fact that Steve Bruce is still in charge is the perfect example of the non-sporting mentality those in charge of our sports club have.

Any other club would have:

1) Sacked Bruce weeks ago, or
2) Made it clear to Bruce that he had to get a result against Brighton to save his job.

They would have been sounding out alternatives to have in the door on Monday morning, giving them two weeks over the international break to work with the team ready for Spurs at home on 4 April.

The haven't and they won't, because of a lack of ambition and two eyes focused on the money they would have to spend paying off Bruce in order to sack him.

So as I say to my friends and colleagues, I watch elite sport to watch elite athletes, coaches and clubs compete to find out who is best. I will watch the 100m Olympics Final to see 8 athletes wanting to win. I watch cricket to see two teams battling it out to win. I don't watch sport to see one club content with turning up and being there, to not even try. If you don't try when playing elite sport, what is the point? What is the point in that sports club? It is to not really care.

And if they don't care, why should I?

[HowayTheLads]

I need to clarify something.

I'm not actually saying the players don't care. I would be shocked if they, or at least most, didn't. They are like any other groups of players or employees. You could be among the best of what you do (they aren't, see below) but still not perform because you are not motivated, mismanaged etc. They could perform better, but the structures/individuals in the club are not good enough/don't care enough.

That said, the players, as a whole, are not good enough. There are some exceptions, but they are, as a unit, not capable of producing the consistent performances required in the PL. A few changes here and there and that squad could be good enough, but its not and never will be based upon my above post.

Right. Rant over. I need a lie down.

[ALF]

I need to clarify something.

I'm not actually saying the players don't care. I would be shocked if they, or at least most, didn't. They are like any other groups of players or employees. You could be among the best of what you do (they aren't, see below) but still not perform because you are not motivated, mismanaged etc. They could perform better, but the structures/individuals in the club are not good enough/don't care enough.

That said, the players, as a whole, are not good enough. There are some exceptions, but they are, as a unit, not capable of producing the consistent performances required in the PL. A few changes here and there and that squad could be good enough, but its not and never will be based upon my above post.

Right. Rant over. I need a lie down.

I disagree with that, I'd say they are good enough. The issue for me is that they aren't playing as a unit. There is no cohesion to our defending or attacking. Our back line is regularly all over the place, our midfield never know when to press and when to hold so do a mismatched attempt which leaves huge holes all over, similarly our forward line press one at a time meaning there is always an easy option for the opposition to play out. In possession we don't have a gameplan, are we a counter attacking side? Are we a possession based side? Do we try for set pieces? Are we long ball? Patient build up? Quick build up? Through the middle? Down the wings? There's zero identity.

I think as a unit this team is plenty good enough but right now there is nothing on the pitch or the training ground to suggest they are even close to being a unit.

[bodacious benny]

Exactly, we’re not good at anything under Bruce. We can’t keep possession, we can’t counter, we can’t press, we can’t soak up pressure, we’re not long ball, we’re not anything.

People criticised Rafa but we were an excellent defensive unit, Bruce has taken us from being the 8th best defence in the league when Rafa left to the second worst with a lot of the same players. We were organised and hard to beat under Rafa. And in his final 5 months we actually played some decent attacking football with Rondon and Perez forming a good partnership.

Any fan or pundit who claimed last season that Bruce was performing as well as Rafa was talking out of their arse. Everything was unfolding into the unmitigated disaster we have now, regardless if points on the board last season were broadly the same. You had to be incredibly shortsighted to think Bruce was doing a similar job.

[originallad]

When Dalglish took over from Keegan, we finished second, but only because it was still Keegan's team and tactics, even by the end of the season we were starting to look disjointed and in the end were poor under him. Same thing with Bruce, now that it's fully his team and tactics we are s****, we only played as well as we did under him because of the lingering ethos of Rafa.

[Sanchino]

Exactly, we’re not good at anything under Bruce. We can’t keep possession, we can’t counter, we can’t press, we can’t soak up pressure, we’re not long ball, we’re not anything.

People criticised Rafa but we were an excellent defensive unit, Bruce has taken us from being the 8th best defence in the league when Rafa left to the second worst with a lot of the same players. We were organised and hard to beat under Rafa. And in his final 5 months we actually played some decent attacking football with Rondon and Perez forming a good partnership.

Any fan or pundit who claimed last season that Bruce was performing as well as Rafa was talking out of their arse. Everything was unfolding into the unmitigated disaster we have now, regardless if points on the board last season were broadly the same. You had to be incredibly shortsighted to think Bruce was doing a similar job.

This. With Rafa we had a identity. It wasn't always great to watch but as mentioned we had a great defensive unit & had a good counter attack. Those last 5 months with Rondon, Perez & Miggy we played some cracking football & it looked like we were building something special & something to get excited about instead Rafa, Perez & Rondon left.. Bruce came in & signed Joelinton which is the equivalent of 2 ASM's (20 mil each).. ... we simply didn't replace Perez & Rondon's goals / assists contribution & now we've been BruceBalled' to death this season. Regardless if we go down or not we need a change.. ownership/management or whatever the club's rotten from the bottom to the top.

[Colly]

I would never jump to "Rafa was building something special" solely because both Premier League seasons were exactly the same, s**** first half then he'd get them playing after Christmas. That in itself though proves that the team is good enough for more than 4th bottom and turning up to "not lose" (inevitably losing) against relegation candidates. I don't think we adequately replaced Perez, but otherwise the team is stronger, or would be if Bruce hadn't utterly ruined the development of both Longstaffs.

[ALF]

I would never jump to "Rafa was building something special" solely because both Premier League seasons were exactly the same, s**** first half then he'd get them playing after Christmas. That in itself though proves that the team is good enough for more than 4th bottom and turning up to "not lose" (inevitably losing) against relegation candidates. I don't think we adequately replaced Perez, but otherwise the team is stronger, or would be if Bruce hadn't utterly ruined the development of both Longstaffs.

This. It annoys me when people say we were amazing after signing Miggy. We were good but the same thing happened the year before. Rafa's teams nearly always finish the season strongly. We weren't just about to push for Europe, we were a stable Premier League side.

[overseasTOON]

We were still s*** for too many games under Rafa by the way and I was never in the Rafa camp as a believer.

To this day I wouldn't have him back to try and help us out to avoid the drop.

[Donkey Toon]

There is revisionist history going on with Rafa's legacy in my opinion. I was delighted when he moved on and wouldn't touch him with a bargepole as a future manager. The only problem is we replaced him with somebody that is worse.

[Toondes]

I’m sick of the same regurgitated s**** he spouts week in week out. “ I’ve been in this game a long time “ “been around the block “- “ we’ve been playing well recently “ -“ the buck stops with me “ - “we’ll keep working hard “ - “it’s about accumulating points “” ect ect.

My worry will be that when relegation is confirmed he still won’t be sacked.

[ALF]

There is revisionist history going on with Rafa's legacy in my opinion. I was delighted when he moved on and wouldn't touch him with a bargepole as a future manager. The only problem is we replaced him with somebody that is worse.

It's embarrassing. The fact that there are still active twitter accounts called 'IfRafaGoesWeGo' and 'RafaFacts' says it all.

[bodacious benny]

We were heading in the right direction on and off the pitch with Rafa, I’d happily take that.

[Captain Obvious]

I think with the players Rafa had he did a very, very good job. I'm not sure many would have done better. That central midfield was and is woeful. He found a system that basically didn't need it. I'd have him back in a hearbeat.

[Remember Colo]

We were heading in the right direction on and off the pitch with Rafa, I’d happily take that.

Were we really heading in a new direction though? We spent chunks of each season floating near the relegation zone, we still don't have youth coming through - nor did they come through under his watch. I'm not saying Bruce was the right replacement, and we'd have been better with Rafa than him, but the only meaningful change I saw was fan positivity.

[Colly]

I think with the players Rafa had he did a very, very good job. I'm not sure many would have done better. That central midfield was and is woeful. He found a system that basically didn't need it. I'd have him back in a hearbeat.

That central midfield, with the exception of Shelvey who we've talked about enough, was signed entirely by Rafa so I'm not really sure how he gets a pass there? His management of it was horrendous too, with that Ki and Longstaff combo that actually worked only happening after injuries to Hayden and Shelvey, Ki having been completely frozen out for half a season.

[Sanchino]

I think with the players Rafa had he did a very, very good job. I'm not sure many would have done better. That central midfield was and is woeful. He found a system that basically didn't need it. I'd have him back in a hearbeat.

That central midfield, with the exception of Shelvey who we've talked about enough, was signed entirely by Rafa so I'm not really sure how he gets a pass there? His management of it was horrendous too, with that Ki and Longstaff combo that actually worked only happening after injuries to Hayden and Shelvey, Ki having been completely frozen out for half a season.

This.. Ki deserved more games & looked decent at times. Saviet same was frozen out after one decent game.. Merino had the potential to be a very good central midfielder with his technical ability & box-to-box ability but he was home sick and wanted to go back to Spain. The thing is I'm not saying Rafa is our savior and would have gotten us European football or a trophy but he was better than Bruce.. tactically & man-management wise. Yes the football was negative & cautious most of the times but with the players we had.. who could have done better than him? Who knows what would have happened if we kept Rondon, kept Perez & signed some quality.. we could have ended top-half the season after or done a West Ham/Aston Villa (challenging for European football). Talking about central midfield partnerships.. does anyone remember that winning run we had with Hayden & Sean as a midfield duo when we played 3-4-3/5-4-1.. that had the makings of something but unfortunately Sean got injured & the rest is history.. he's never really been the same player since weather that's down to his injuries, fitness, lack of confidence, lack of coaching or a mixture of all of those things.

[Remember Colo]

That central midfield, with the exception of Shelvey who we've talked about enough, was signed entirely by Rafa so I'm not really sure how he gets a pass there? His management of it was horrendous too, with that Ki and Longstaff combo that actually worked only happening after injuries to Hayden and Shelvey, Ki having been completely frozen out for half a season.

This.. Ki deserved more games & looked decent at times. Saviet same was frozen out after one decent game.. Merino had the potential to be a very good central midfielder with his technical ability & box-to-box ability but he was home sick and wanted to go back to Spain. The thing is I'm not saying Rafa is our savior and would have gotten us European football or a trophy but he was better than Bruce.. tactically & man-management wise. Yes the football was negative & cautious most of the times but with the players we had.. who could have done better than him? Who knows what would have happened if we kept Rondon, kept Perez & signed some quality.. we could have ended top-half the season after or done a West Ham/Aston Villa (challenging for European football). Talking about central midfield partnerships.. does anyone remember that winning run we had with Hayden & Sean as a midfield duo when we played 3-4-3/5-4-1.. that had the makings of something but unfortunately Sean got injured & the rest is history.. he's never really been the same player since weather that's down to his injuries, fitness, lack of confidence, lack of coaching or a mixture of all of those things.

Agree with the overall point, though I'll argue his man-management isn't necessarily better, as although he may not have pulled something like Bruce's fight with Ritchie, Rafa always has his favourites, wherever he goes, and it's easy to fall off his radar and seemingly never get more chances. And in a side with as inconsistent