Takeover back on - DEAL DONE

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Re: Takeover back on - DEAL DONE

Post by Valentino's fast feet » Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:31 pm

https://fb.watch/8A7BxZQBnm/

Not sure if that link will work, but Stavely and Ghodoussi visiting the training ground today. She looks proper giddy just to be there, good to see haha.
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Re: Takeover back on - DEAL DONE

Post by DDuc » Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:15 pm

Don Sholeone wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:22 pm
DavideDuck wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:51 pm


Precisely, the whole "but Uber, but Disney, etc." thing is getting parroted by plenty of people out there.

Even when you ignore debates around whataboutism, the NUFC takeover is a completely different situation. Not only are the PIF the clear majority stakeholders, they're also deliberately fostering an affiliation between Newcastle United and Saudi Arabia. Some fans are happy to play up to this as well; we've already seen Saudi news outlets publishing photos of fans dressed like sheikhs.
It's true though and it's not "whataboutism", people cannot be selective about what Saudi investments outrage them, you can have the stance of "I've mentioned the takeover first so you can't bring up other investments". It's a ridiculous stance, if you are going to make a stand against their investments then fair enough but if you are then do it collectively and dont pick and choose to serve the argument. It's blatant hypocrisy and literally hiding behind percentages and deciding which is acceptable for you and what isn't. Fact is if people are so against Saudi investments then it shouldn't matter if it's 1% or 80%.
I'm not sure if many people are taking that stance. I mean, I consciously avoid using Uber and Amazon, but I'm also happy to admit that I've got Disney Plus (mostly down to me getting hooked after 6 months free through O2 <fist> ). Everything seems to lead to a stink somewhere along the line; I don't think you could ever totally avoid EVERYTHING that's morally questionable without completely cutting yourself off from society.

However, I don't think me having a Disney Plus subscription completely negates my acknowledgement of the awful human rights record of Saudi Arabia. I think there's certainly a difference between going to matches because it's part of your routine, and actively making excuses for the PIF and waltzing around with a tea towel on your head.

At the end of the day, your average Newcastle fan probably isn't an avid reader of a Financial Times long read (nor are most people), so these issues feel fresh and raw. I think a lot of the reason why people feel this is unprecedented and 'unfair' is down to the place football has in the British zeitgeist. If the PIF buys another stake in a logistics company, few people are likely to notice. However, it's obviously gonna be different when they buy an English football club, especially one of Newcastle's stature. For that reason, I feel like we should avoid getting into the mindset that people are 'out to get us' and perhaps see this an opportunity to shed light on many issues that people may not already be aware of.
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Re: Takeover back on - DEAL DONE

Post by Bodacious Benny » Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:59 pm

Cabella's Invincible Hair wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:31 pm
https://fb.watch/8A7BxZQBnm/

Not sure if that link will work, but Stavely and Ghodoussi visiting the training ground today. She looks proper giddy just to be there, good to see haha.
Yeah I’m liking that we’re actually getting good social media coverage coming out of the club for the first time in years too.
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Re: Takeover back on - DEAL DONE

Post by gola » Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:23 pm

yeh is nice

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Re: Takeover back on - DEAL DONE

Post by Remember Colo » Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:27 pm

DavideDuck wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:15 pm
Don Sholeone wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:22 pm


It's true though and it's not "whataboutism", people cannot be selective about what Saudi investments outrage them, you can have the stance of "I've mentioned the takeover first so you can't bring up other investments". It's a ridiculous stance, if you are going to make a stand against their investments then fair enough but if you are then do it collectively and dont pick and choose to serve the argument. It's blatant hypocrisy and literally hiding behind percentages and deciding which is acceptable for you and what isn't. Fact is if people are so against Saudi investments then it shouldn't matter if it's 1% or 80%.
I'm not sure if many people are taking that stance. I mean, I consciously avoid using Uber and Amazon, but I'm also happy to admit that I've got Disney Plus (mostly down to me getting hooked after 6 months free through O2 <fist> ). Everything seems to lead to a stink somewhere along the line; I don't think you could ever totally avoid EVERYTHING that's morally questionable without completely cutting yourself off from society.

However, I don't think me having a Disney Plus subscription completely negates my acknowledgement of the awful human rights record of Saudi Arabia. I think there's certainly a difference between going to matches because it's part of your routine, and actively making excuses for the PIF and waltzing around with a tea towel on your head.

At the end of the day, your average Newcastle fan probably isn't an avid reader of a Financial Times long read (nor are most people), so these issues feel fresh and raw. I think a lot of the reason why people feel this is unprecedented and 'unfair' is down to the place football has in the British zeitgeist. If the PIF buys another stake in a logistics company, few people are likely to notice. However, it's obviously gonna be different when they buy an English football club, especially one of Newcastle's stature. For that reason, I feel like we should avoid getting into the mindset that people are 'out to get us' and perhaps see this an opportunity to shed light on many issues that people may not already be aware of.
That's a very fair and reasonable summary of the situation. To go to the Disney Plus point - I'll make a more direct comparison. When people sign up for Disney Plus, do they meet in the town square and celebrate? Do they praise their investors for their dollars ensuring the subscription fee takes 1 year instead of 6 months to go up in price? Of course not, because their gigantic list of investors aren't a representation of the company or service - nor do its consumers associate them with it. Just as the Saudi interests in those investments differ.

But people rightfully talk about the owners of a football club seemingly every day. Whether it be because of transfer rumours, infrastructure investments, what they wear to the owners box, fans sing songs of hate or love, they give quotes to the media (and if they shy from it are criticised), the list goes on and on. People quoted Sir Bobby when it was convenient to say a club isn't its owner, but I also then saw the same people use the same Sir Bobby quote when they were excited for a new rich owner.

I'd add that I find a lot of Newcastle fans saying that fans haven't criticised Man City, Chelsea, PSG, etc. But these have been some of the most resented clubs in Europe, that people eventually just accept - while cheer against. Their leagues didn't object to them the same way the PL did, but the context and timing was very different too.

Ultimately, we can cry woe is us about the media and fans criticising us, or we accept this is the price of having a rich and powerful owner. It's a very different fan role to be in - we've gone from a fanbase much of the footballing world took pity on, to one many will now be jealous of. And that'll just be part of the territory.

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Re: Takeover back on - DEAL DONE

Post by seaside nipper » Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:12 pm

Micky Quim wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:44 pm
Also to add - I dont have a problem with people complaining about the Saudi ownership. Ive got to agree - my only annoyance with this is that nobody seemed to kick up such a fuss about all the other clubs owned by despicable owners. Never mind all the companies and properties in the UK also in the same position. Thats a political issue the Government need to sort out
This is really the sum and substance of it all !

We have sports washing in one form or another for ages now, such is the attraction of the Premier league for instance.

However PIF are not just about Newcastle Utd fc. On a footballing level it’s massively significant and simply promotes Newcastle to the top table. I’m happy with that on a football level. Conflicting, but great.

I would suggest the majority of criticism is based on self preservation and simple jealousy from tbe other clubs , especially those that back channelled the Premier league against this, significantly Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool

From a wider macroeconomic POV if you like, the KSA ( sorry PIF ) itself is clearly looking beyond the football club. This move shows a massively significant and public declaration of strategic economic intent, Port of Tyne , investment and development for instance.
This investment into the NE in general gives them a strong foothold in future economic expansion for their own economy on the ultimate fossil fuel demise.

In Scotland the Chinese government ( oops sorry
“ Petrochina “ ) have at least a 50% ownership of the Oil refinery, and by default natural strategic access to the Port of Grangemouth. Difference is they didn’t need to buy the local football club, albeit that would have cost about £100k 🤣 so no one was jumping up and down complaining about China , the state and its record on human rights.

There will be understandable carping , whining and plenty white noise around Newcastle all the time now, we bought that victory, it’s all their money , blah de blah, but I can live with that.

The premier league is all about the money
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Re: Takeover back on - DEAL DONE

Post by Remember Colo » Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:53 pm

All that is true - and equally deserving of more scrutinity. But I think we have to accept that more fuss is made about everything ethically questionable than it used to be - and better late than never I say (for most issues). But I still think it's a bit of revisionist history to say people didn't complain or criticise past big money purchases. You can read articles from the Guardian to the NY Times about the Abu Dhabi sale of Man City, or even take it back to their previous sale to ex-Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra - who had his own corruption and financial drama. It's all been escalating and I'm sure the next one will likely exceed the attention of ours (if there's even an equally questionable government investment fund looking to buy a club left out there).

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Re: Takeover back on - DEAL DONE

Post by biggeordiedave » Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:48 pm

Remember Colo wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:53 pm
All that is true - and equally deserving of more scrutinity. But I think we have to accept that more fuss is made about everything ethically questionable than it used to be - and better late than never I say (for most issues). But I still think it's a bit of revisionist history to say people didn't complain or criticise past big money purchases. You can read articles from the Guardian to the NY Times about the Abu Dhabi sale of Man City, or even take it back to their previous sale to ex-Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra - who had his own corruption and financial drama. It's all been escalating and I'm sure the next one will likely exceed the attention of ours (if there's even an equally questionable government investment fund looking to buy a club left out there).
They rank 146th out of 162 countries on the Human Freedom Index, and there are some pretty ropey countries below them. UK and Ireland are joint 8th.
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Re: Takeover back on - DEAL DONE

Post by Remember Colo » Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:19 pm

biggeordiedave wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:48 pm
Remember Colo wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:53 pm
All that is true - and equally deserving of more scrutinity. But I think we have to accept that more fuss is made about everything ethically questionable than it used to be - and better late than never I say (for most issues). But I still think it's a bit of revisionist history to say people didn't complain or criticise past big money purchases. You can read articles from the Guardian to the NY Times about the Abu Dhabi sale of Man City, or even take it back to their previous sale to ex-Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra - who had his own corruption and financial drama. It's all been escalating and I'm sure the next one will likely exceed the attention of ours (if there's even an equally questionable government investment fund looking to buy a club left out there).
They rank 146th out of 162 countries on the Human Freedom Index, and there are some pretty ropey countries below them. UK and Ireland are joint 8th.
<laugh> That's some pretty special company they're keeping. Any time a country buys a football club it's going to catch a lot of flack. And only (as you put it) ropey countries buy sports clubs - any reasonably democratic government would never get permission to throw their money away on one.

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Re: Takeover back on - DEAL DONE

Post by Oval85 » Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:01 am

Simon Jordan hitting the nail for once.

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Re: Takeover back on - DEAL DONE

Post by Bodacious Benny » Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:41 am

I absolutely refuse to consume anything by talksport <laugh>
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Re: Takeover back on - DEAL DONE

Post by Don Sholeone » Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:52 am

Oval85 wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:01 am
Simon Jordan hitting the nail for once.
For the most part I really detest Simon Jordan, but he does know how things work behind the scenes with the PL and hes interesting to listen to when he stays within his area of expertise.
So here he is spot on, the clubs can say whatever they like but there was a process they all agreed upon with the ODT, they all agreed to a confidential process, and like he says once there is no obstacles in the way of the takeover what business is it of theirs?
People can argue Human Rights etc but that's not written into the process so was never really going to be considered. Yes there is the argument that it should be but that isn't the reality and never really was as the precedent had already been set with Man City.
The actual reality here is that the clubs are angry they wasn't allowed to break away from the rules they agreed upon in order to stop our takeover happening.

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Re: Takeover back on - DEAL DONE

Post by Oval85 » Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:53 am

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:41 am
I absolutely refuse to consume anything by talksport <laugh>
Fair enough. Was interesting though. At least it's without Murphy <laugh>

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Re: Takeover back on - DEAL DONE

Post by Bodacious Benny » Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:05 pm

I used to listen to it quite regularly on my commute about 7 or 8 years ago but Adrian Durham wound me up too much <laugh>
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Re: Takeover back on - DEAL DONE

Post by Oval85 » Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:02 pm

Yeah, he haven't been on while I've watched. I can't stand Daryl Murphy though, he's like that one bully at school who needs a beating.

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Re: Takeover back on - DEAL DONE

Post by beatski » Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:06 pm

didnt realise the bit about European broadcast rights. that's s****

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