Howe under pressure?

[lassassinblanc]

I hate doing this but it's ripe in the media right now..

I suppose the simple question is how safe is Howe's job?

I for one have faith in him, we're currently way ahead of schedule and are reeling from the extra pressure it brings as we didn't expect to be in this position so soon.

On the flipside I have to admit the squad could have been better managed as someone pointed out we have the likes of Hall who has hardly played ( now this may just be as Howe doesn't think he's ready yet or he's not performing in training who knows ).

To turn it back around to the good it's not like we went out and we're humiliated in the group like certain other teams (you know who...substitute us into that group and we're looking forward to the L16 draw next week)

We're in Quarter Final of league cup ,7th in the league when you consider where we were 2 years ago at this point.

Be interested to hear others thoughts

[Don Sholeone]

Just been discussing this.

For me he's more than proven himself as a coach and being able to put out 11 organised players and playing a really exciting and effective brand of football that gets results, that isn't in doubt at all.

But for us now and where we want to be we cannot just look at that aspect of management/coaching. I've been very vocal about squad management in recent weeks and I think Howes has been very poor and it's something I've seen coming for a while now. He has an over reliance on his favoured players that has impacted the squad massively. My annoyance circles on his approach to Dummett, Ritchie, Livramento, Hall, Miley, and a hand full of the academy lads.
The first two just don't play any part in the squad this season, so why have they been kept on if they hild zero on field value to us?.
Livramento showed he was a real talent and ready to play long before he was given an opportunity, Howe left him in the dark for so long and had plenty of opportunities to integrate him much earlier.
Miley burst onto the scene last year and looked really good, he continued this into pre season and has looked better and better each time he has played. But this season he dropped off the map completely until everyone else was injured.
Hall has barely had a sniff at all, granted he's had some rocky games, but the lad seems like he's completely blacklisted at this point, why was he brought in and why is he even on the bench if he's not deemed good enough to play against anyone?

Academy lads like A. Murphy etc. these are our next generation, plenty of occasions they could have been given 10 minutes or so at the end of games to rest the first 11 and gain them invaluable experience, again some of these lads haven't looked that far out of place when coming on yet they still only get a token 1 minutes on the pitch appearance.

Last night showed this squad is mentally and physically exhausted. How have we got the lads to this point of fatigue when we have options, we have solutions waiting there to rest key players? Howe needs to learn lessons and fast for me, at times you need to make and find opportunities for rest and I think he's failed at almost every opportunity this year in this regard, we have had practically the same 11 going balls to the wall since the get go, he's ran them into the ground and waited for injuries to then just chuck someone else in to do the same for them. Rotation and integration if players has been absolutely abysmal.

Right now I think his job is safe and I don't want to see him go, but he has to show improvement on this front now. If we want to fight with the elite consistently then he has to learn very quickly.

[bodacious benny]

I don't think he's under any pressure. There is a squad management argument in some cases, but we've had one of the biggest injury crisis that any PL club has ever seen (and Tonali unavailable). That is beginning to ease (Burn, Wilson and Longstaff back already, Barnes and Botman hopefully not far away) and with no European football I think that our league form will begin to improve. I think that we will finish 5th/6th this season which I would have taken at the start of the season and who knows, another cup final isn't unlikely. Howe and the players will have learnt from their experiences in Europe this season. We had some bad luck (PSG away), but we did get schooled a few times. Dortmund knew how to play the game, as did AC Milan last night.

If we finished any lower than 8th he might be, but I don't think he is right now (nor should he be).

[overseasTOON]

I f***ing love Eddie Howe and so does my wife.

Yep. Squad rotation has been an issue and an over reliance on certain players but let's not forget that he turned these players, whom Steve Bruce stated were not very good, into a squad that finished fourth last year.

We all thought some of these guys were total and utter s**** but Howe has made them into very strong players.

When you build someone up like that. Why the hell would you drop them?

These players will run through walls for Eddie. They wouldn't have pissed on Bruce if he was on fire.

[beatski]

not at all for me. last night we played well, didnt take our chances, made a few mistakes and lost, that's how it goes in high stakes games at the top, i'd be more concerned if we didnt do the first two bits. hopefully we learn from this and don't do the same in the future.

And that applies in the wider sense too, Howe has adapted from when he first took over, so hopefully he can continue to learn and adapt and not make the same mistakes in the future. You won't find a manager that doesnt make mistakes nor come under criticism from the fans when on a poor run.

[Colly]

I still think with the squad rotation he's had his hands tied badly. Dummett and Ritchie aren't going to change games and realistically should only be playing cup games (or absolute emergencies) going forward. The only players you'd say maybe could have come in earlier are justifiably Livramento, and Hall, and for me Howe is the guy who's watching him in training and making the decision he isn't quite there yet. He's shown in Miley that he's not scared of using young players, but Murphy/Parkinson/other Miley aren't at that point yet, and he's not going to throw them in if they aren't ready.

We've hopefully just come out of a period where our injured players XI would have a decent chance of beating our starting XI, yet we're 7th in the league and still in the league cup (with 2 major scalps). I think we've been guilty of naivety at times (Bruno had a golden opportunity to stop the second goal last night with exactly the tactical foul Milan did at least 3 times), but that's an individual error which has characterised some of our recent performances.

Stick Sven Botman back in the side and I think an awful lot changes in terms of organisation and confidence with the ball in defense.

[Remember Colo]

I f***ing love Eddie Howe and so does my wife.

Yep. Squad rotation has been an issue and an over reliance on certain players but let's not forget that he turned these players, whom Steve Bruce stated were not very good, into a squad that finished fourth last year.

We all thought some of these guys were total and utter s**** but Howe has made them into very strong players.

When you build someone up like that. Why the hell would you drop them?

These players will run through walls for Eddie. They wouldn't have pissed on Bruce if he was on fire.

Overall agree, but I think a key change of perspective that clubs competing on multiple fronts manage is not viewing squad rotation as "dropping" players. The only way to survive playing twice a week so much is to strategically rotate the squad when you have options to do so - not just when required by injuries, which usually is too late.

[seaside nipper]

He clearly is under pressure in terms of his squads injury and fatigue woes.
In terms of job pressure I would think as a bare minimum the owners wouldn’t even consider a change until the summer at the earliest, all of course depending on form and results between now and then.
He will always put himself under pressure to deliver and unfortunately for him he’s kind of a victim of his own very early success with us. No one and I mean no one could have expected last season. Imagine if we had won tbe league cup, he would be a legend.
Between now and year end we need a reset, players need rest and rehab so we need to show some form with a rotated squad through tbe next batch of games, that’s going to be challenging.
Key is January, who we secure and what kind of injury list we have.
It’s like second season syndrome , the test for Eddie is how he finishes the season.
He’s been great for us imho.

[Timshorts 2]

Just been discussing this.

For me he's more than proven himself as a coach and being able to put out 11 organised players and playing a really exciting and effective brand of football that gets results, that isn't in doubt at all.

But for us now and where we want to be we cannot just look at that aspect of management/coaching. I've been very vocal about squad management in recent weeks and I think Howes has been very poor and it's something I've seen coming for a while now. He has an over reliance on his favoured players that has impacted the squad massively. My annoyance circles on his approach to Dummett, Ritchie, Livramento, Hall, Miley, and a hand full of the academy lads.
The first two just don't play any part in the squad this season, so why have they been kept on if they hild zero on field value to us?.
Livramento showed he was a real talent and ready to play long before he was given an opportunity, Howe left him in the dark for so long and had plenty of opportunities to integrate him much earlier.
Miley burst onto the scene last year and looked really good, he continued this into pre season and has looked better and better each time he has played. But this season he dropped off the map completely until everyone else was injured.
Hall has barely had a sniff at all, granted he's had some rocky games, but the lad seems like he's completely blacklisted at this point, why was he brought in and why is he even on the bench if he's not deemed good enough to play against anyone?

Academy lads like A. Murphy etc. these are our next generation, plenty of occasions they could have been given 10 minutes or so at the end of games to rest the first 11 and gain them invaluable experience, again some of these lads haven't looked that far out of place when coming on yet they still only get a token 1 minutes on the pitch appearance.

Last night showed this squad is mentally and physically exhausted. How have we got the lads to this point of fatigue when we have options, we have solutions waiting there to rest key players? Howe needs to learn lessons and fast for me, at times you need to make and find opportunities for rest and I think he's failed at almost every opportunity this year in this regard, we have had practically the same 11 going balls to the wall since the get go, he's ran them into the ground and waited for injuries to then just chuck someone else in to do the same for them. Rotation and integration if players has been absolutely abysmal.

Right now I think his job is safe and I don't want to see him go, but he has to show improvement on this front now. If we want to fight with the elite consistently then he has to learn very quickly.

Yes, I've read all that, and yes, there is a point to it, but it sounds the equivalent of "first world problems" compared to where he has brought us from. We might even win something if we stick with him at present rates of improvement.

And it's not just a case of thinking back to Steve bruce. Who can forget the s**** under souness, Dalglish taking us down the pan, getting torn to shreds under jack Charlton, games 2-11 in 1977/8 (when I thought we'd be quite decent after beating Leeds on day 1) and the ultimate embarrassment of the debacle under ardiles, who made all of the above seem as talented as pep.

The rest of the country is expecting us to start behaving like spoilt brat entitled glory hunters. So far, we've not given them the pleasure. There's bound to be some new found fans heading our way, and maybe we sign a self-indulgent mercenary at some point, but the longer we can keep classy, the better. Let us never behave like a club that wears a red shirt.

[originallad]

Just been discussing this.

For me he's more than proven himself as a coach and being able to put out 11 organised players and playing a really exciting and effective brand of football that gets results, that isn't in doubt at all.

But for us now and where we want to be we cannot just look at that aspect of management/coaching. I've been very vocal about squad management in recent weeks and I think Howes has been very poor and it's something I've seen coming for a while now. He has an over reliance on his favoured players that has impacted the squad massively. My annoyance circles on his approach to Dummett, Ritchie, Livramento, Hall, Miley, and a hand full of the academy lads.
The first two just don't play any part in the squad this season, so why have they been kept on if they hild zero on field value to us?.
Livramento showed he was a real talent and ready to play long before he was given an opportunity, Howe left him in the dark for so long and had plenty of opportunities to integrate him much earlier.
Miley burst onto the scene last year and looked really good, he continued this into pre season and has looked better and better each time he has played. But this season he dropped off the map completely until everyone else was injured.
Hall has barely had a sniff at all, granted he's had some rocky games, but the lad seems like he's completely blacklisted at this point, why was he brought in and why is he even on the bench if he's not deemed good enough to play against anyone?

Academy lads like A. Murphy etc. these are our next generation, plenty of occasions they could have been given 10 minutes or so at the end of games to rest the first 11 and gain them invaluable experience, again some of these lads haven't looked that far out of place when coming on yet they still only get a token 1 minutes on the pitch appearance.

Last night showed this squad is mentally and physically exhausted. How have we got the lads to this point of fatigue when we have options, we have solutions waiting there to rest key players? Howe needs to learn lessons and fast for me, at times you need to make and find opportunities for rest and I think he's failed at almost every opportunity this year in this regard, we have had practically the same 11 going balls to the wall since the get go, he's ran them into the ground and waited for injuries to then just chuck someone else in to do the same for them. Rotation and integration if players has been absolutely abysmal.

Right now I think his job is safe and I don't want to see him go, but he has to show improvement on this front now. If we want to fight with the elite consistently then he has to learn very quickly.

Yes, I've read all that, and yes, there is a point to it, but it sounds the equivalent of "first world problems" compared to where he has brought us from. We might even win something if we stick with him at present rates of improvement.

And it's not just a case of thinking back to Steve bruce. Who can forget the s**** under souness, Dalglish taking us down the pan, getting torn to shreds under jack Charlton, games 2-11 in 1977/8 (when I thought we'd be quite decent after beating Leeds on day 1) and the ultimate embarrassment of the debacle under ardiles, who made all of the above seem as talented as pep.

The rest of the country is expecting us to start behaving like spoilt brat entitled glory hunters. So far, we've not given them the pleasure. There's bound to be some new found fans heading our way, and maybe we sign a self-indulgent mercenary at some point, but the longer we can keep classy, the better. Let us never behave like a club that wears a red shirt.

This

[Sanchino]

Just been discussing this.

For me he's more than proven himself as a coach and being able to put out 11 organised players and playing a really exciting and effective brand of football that gets results, that isn't in doubt at all.

But for us now and where we want to be we cannot just look at that aspect of management/coaching. I've been very vocal about squad management in recent weeks and I think Howes has been very poor and it's something I've seen coming for a while now. He has an over reliance on his favoured players that has impacted the squad massively. My annoyance circles on his approach to Dummett, Ritchie, Livramento, Hall, Miley, and a hand full of the academy lads.
The first two just don't play any part in the squad this season, so why have they been kept on if they hild zero on field value to us?.
Livramento showed he was a real talent and ready to play long before he was given an opportunity, Howe left him in the dark for so long and had plenty of opportunities to integrate him much earlier.
Miley burst onto the scene last year and looked really good, he continued this into pre season and has looked better and better each time he has played. But this season he dropped off the map completely until everyone else was injured.
Hall has barely had a sniff at all, granted he's had some rocky games, but the lad seems like he's completely blacklisted at this point, why was he brought in and why is he even on the bench if he's not deemed good enough to play against anyone?

Academy lads like A. Murphy etc. these are our next generation, plenty of occasions they could have been given 10 minutes or so at the end of games to rest the first 11 and gain them invaluable experience, again some of these lads haven't looked that far out of place when coming on yet they still only get a token 1 minutes on the pitch appearance.

Last night showed this squad is mentally and physically exhausted. How have we got the lads to this point of fatigue when we have options, we have solutions waiting there to rest key players? Howe needs to learn lessons and fast for me, at times you need to make and find opportunities for rest and I think he's failed at almost every opportunity this year in this regard, we have had practically the same 11 going balls to the wall since the get go, he's ran them into the ground and waited for injuries to then just chuck someone else in to do the same for them. Rotation and integration if players has been absolutely abysmal.

Right now I think his job is safe and I don't want to see him go, but he has to show improvement on this front now. If we want to fight with the elite consistently then he has to learn very quickly.

This pretty much sums it up for me.

[ALF]

Just been discussing this.

For me he's more than proven himself as a coach and being able to put out 11 organised players and playing a really exciting and effective brand of football that gets results, that isn't in doubt at all.

But for us now and where we want to be we cannot just look at that aspect of management/coaching. I've been very vocal about squad management in recent weeks and I think Howes has been very poor and it's something I've seen coming for a while now. He has an over reliance on his favoured players that has impacted the squad massively. My annoyance circles on his approach to Dummett, Ritchie, Livramento, Hall, Miley, and a hand full of the academy lads.
The first two just don't play any part in the squad this season, so why have they been kept on if they hild zero on field value to us?.
Livramento showed he was a real talent and ready to play long before he was given an opportunity, Howe left him in the dark for so long and had plenty of opportunities to integrate him much earlier.
Miley burst onto the scene last year and looked really good, he continued this into pre season and has looked better and better each time he has played. But this season he dropped off the map completely until everyone else was injured.
Hall has barely had a sniff at all, granted he's had some rocky games, but the lad seems like he's completely blacklisted at this point, why was he brought in and why is he even on the bench if he's not deemed good enough to play against anyone?

Academy lads like A. Murphy etc. these are our next generation, plenty of occasions they could have been given 10 minutes or so at the end of games to rest the first 11 and gain them invaluable experience, again some of these lads haven't looked that far out of place when coming on yet they still only get a token 1 minutes on the pitch appearance.

Last night showed this squad is mentally and physically exhausted. How have we got the lads to this point of fatigue when we have options, we have solutions waiting there to rest key players? Howe needs to learn lessons and fast for me, at times you need to make and find opportunities for rest and I think he's failed at almost every opportunity this year in this regard, we have had practically the same 11 going balls to the wall since the get go, he's ran them into the ground and waited for injuries to then just chuck someone else in to do the same for them. Rotation and integration if players has been absolutely abysmal.

Right now I think his job is safe and I don't want to see him go, but he has to show improvement on this front now. If we want to fight with the elite consistently then he has to learn very quickly.

I agree with a lot of this, but Miley was out with glandular fever until the game he came into the side

[Colly]

And prior to that we had a mix of Bruno, Joelinton, Longstaff, Tonali, Willock (briefly) and Anderson, to bump any of those for a 17 year is a massive shout, and might actually have hampered his development by pulling out of the junior sides onto a bench.

[lassassinblanc]

Bump

[bodacious benny]

I still think having Barnes and hopefully willock back soon will make a big difference.

Brining Burn straight back in at left back when Tino has been playing very well is a hugely questionable choice tho.

[Sanchino]

I still think having Barnes and hopefully willock back soon will make a big difference.

Brining Burn straight back in at left back when Tino has been playing very well is a hugely questionable choice tho.

Agreed. I think that's down to Howe. His tactical nous and team selection was found out today. I'm hoping Anderson, Willock, Murphy and Barnes return will relieve some of the pressure but we need them back as soon as possible. Howe deserves a full season with a fit full squad and potentially some new signings such as a upgraded RW (Miggy repalcement), A long-term successor to Schar & Wilson and a DM upgrade on Longstaff we need a strong, athletic and mobile DM as shown today we've been exposed on the break with Bruno/Big Joe/Willock/Miley natural no.8's and Anderson who can play box-to-box too but can also go out wide. Tonali will be a new player but he's similar to Bruno were he can be a deep-lying playmaker or as a no.8 but we need a Tiote / Makelele / Kante type player to let the other midfielders work there magic I don't think Longstaff is good enough in the long-term or elite level. We also need to make up our mind on weather Hall is gonna be here next year or if not we need to get a quality LB in who's pacey and direct, move Burn back into CB and only play them there(LB) if necessary (injuries, etc). Keep Targett and Kraft but get rid of Dummet, Ritchie and Manquillo who are dead wood. Maybe even sell Wilson if a decent offer comes in and replace him with a Tevez/Aguero style player to compliment Isak.

Sunderland massive game as I don't see us winning the next 3 games against Liverpool, Man City and Villa. We will be lucky to qualify for Europe let alone the Champions League now with this current form.

[originallad]

No.

[Slim999]

I still think having Barnes and hopefully willock back soon will make a big difference.

Brining Burn straight back in at left back when Tino has been playing very well is a hugely questionable choice tho.

Not to mention Elliot Anderson who was ( imo ) shaping up to be one of our core top players.

Eddie has to some degree been the victim of his own success- as qualifying for CL this term was way out of anyone's expectations . That facilitated the signing of Tonali who was thrown straight in and looked fantastic.

Then came his ban , an unprecedented sequence of injuries , .... and just as the fixtures were starting to pile high ( largely as a result of CL)

So we've been pretty unlucky & perhaps some calls haven't been quite right...

1. Could EH have used more rotation of 2nd string players to ease the load / fatigue ...Yes

2. Is he inexperienced in managing big name players through top level ( CL ) games...Yes (he says this himself)

3. Does he deserve the rest of this season ( with new signings + returning players ) + the first half of next season, to show what his capabilities are......?

Imo

Yes

[seaside nipper]

Yes he is in terms of the pressure he will put on himself.He will be hating this current spell and working double hard to recover momentum.
For me he has been excellent and has “credit in the bank “ despite EH himself hating that phrase as attributed to either himself or any player.
I’m sure he has at least two opportunities to recover, January window and established first injured team starts returning.
This is an amazingly demanding league and teams in the most are excellent. There are no easy games so a standard minimum is required, we are understandably falling short at the moment. It’s a bump in the road.
EH is trying to paper over the cracks, he needs his skilled craftsmen back and to deploy them
Too many loyal players are running on empty.
I hope come mid January we are looking refreshed and resilient again , with some angry shithousery on display.

[lassassinblanc]

I hate doing this but it's ripe in the media right now..

I suppose the simple question is how safe is Howe's job?

I for one have faith in him, we're currently way ahead of schedule and are reeling from the extra pressure it brings as we didn't expect to be in this position so soon.

On the flipside I have to admit the squad could have been better managed as someone pointed out we have the likes of Hall who has hardly played ( now this may just be as Howe doesn't think he's ready yet or he's not performing in training who knows ).

To turn it back around to the good it's not like we went out and we're humiliated in the group like certain other teams (you know who...substitute us into that group and we're looking forward to the L16 draw next week)

We're in Quarter Final of league cup ,7th in the league when you consider where we were 2 years ago at this point.

Be interested to hear others thoughts

I'll echo my earlier thoughts, and expand a little more.

As a few posters have said we're a victim of our own success.

No way did we think we'd get champions league football soon, the extra games definitely took their toll.

Again and the same as a few my only criticism would be the lack of rotation at times, of course a draw of PSG, Milan and Dortmund in champions league didn't help as Man City,Man Utd, Chelsea didn't in league cup either. More favourable draws could have seen a few changes made.

Injuries and suspensions have also affected us, in positive to that we've seen the likes of Miley play himself into the squad , we've also seen Livarmento prove that he was worth the outlay and he'll be a potential replacement for Trippier.

It has hopefully also highlighted the areas we need to improve.

For me :
CM - looks like Phillips is a target
Left back - I'd be looking at Juan Miranda -available for around 3-4m as he's out of contract in summer
CF- been talk of Guirassy from Stuttgart who has 18m buy out clause
RW- could always see Mintah brought back in