Matchday thread - Toon v Chelsea

[UlversToon]

Murphy just did a Cisse!

[Colback's Orange Tufts]

OK I'm glad I didn't switch it off. Proper belly laugh

[Donkey Toon]

Poor performance, got what we deserved. Scoreline flattered us if anything. Decent goals though.

[Don Sholeone]

We need a change in the summer. I just can't see where we go next with this current team/management. There has been no positive sign that things are working out or going to change. New manager needed, and need to get the cloggers out.

[Slim999]

This Season is over to me ( aside from the cup )

It's all about ensuring we can get a fit & better quality squad ready on the pitch for next season.

If we can get everyone fit, have Tonali back , keep Joe-L & Bruno , continue to bring good young'uns thru...... and (.crucially) uprate 2 or 3 of our less impressive regulars (I'm thinking Almiron , Longstaff) with better quality, - I actually think we could be a force to be reckoned with next term.

Some may think not being in Europe is a problem.- but I think it may be a blessing.

A less frenetic season and a squad capable of being regularly rotated is what we need .

The jury is still out for me on whether Eddie can do rotation / tactical switches as Klopp , Pep do - but he deserves next season to show it imo

[Slim999]

Also- if Southgate doesn't start Palmer in next England team- I'd say he's clueless & has to move on .

The kid is class and looks better every week

[Colly]

Also- if Southgate doesn't start Palmer in next England team- I'd say he's clueless & has to move on .

The kid is class and looks better every week

Ahead of who though? While Southgate's selections absolutely need to be scrutinised if you look at vaguely similar positions I wouldn't put him ahead of Saka, Foden or Bellingham.

[Valentino's fast feet]

Also- if Southgate doesn't start Palmer in next England team- I'd say he's clueless & has to move on .

The kid is class and looks better every week

Ahead of who though? While Southgate's selections absolutely need to be scrutinised if you look at vaguely similar positions I wouldn't put him ahead of Saka, Foden or Bellingham.

Very valid point and I fully agree. However, since the next two fixtures are friendlies ahead of the tournament, surely that's the perfect time to give someone having a good season a run out? As you rightly point out, we know how good Saka, Foden and Bellingham are.

[Sanchino]

This Season is over to me ( aside from the cup )

It's all about ensuring we can get a fit & better quality squad ready on the pitch for next season.

If we can get everyone fit, have Tonali back , keep Joe-L & Bruno , continue to bring good young'uns thru...... and (.crucially) uprate 2 or 3 of our less impressive regulars (I'm thinking Almiron , Longstaff) with better quality, - I actually think we could be a force to be reckoned with next term.

Some may think not being in Europe is a problem.- but I think it may be a blessing.

A less frenetic season and a squad capable of being regularly rotated is what we need .

The jury is still out for me on whether Eddie can do rotation / tactical switches as Klopp , Pep do - but he deserves next season to show it imo

This. Unless something drastic happens and we go on a massive rot of a run (like only winning 1 out of the final 10 matches) then Howe deserves a fresh start with a fresh squad and new signings in key positions (LB/RW/DM/ST). We have a good core of Botman, Bruno, Isak and Gordon. Just need to upgrade in certain positions and improve the overall squad depth. Tonali / Big Joe coming back will be big as them two and Bruno could be our potential trusted trio in midfield. Replace Burn at LB for a exciting attacking LB and we're set. Maybe also look to get a young athletic pacey CB to slowly integrate into the team and eventually replace Schar. Tripps' ready made replacement is Tino so if we get someone like him on the left-hand side we'll definitely have the makings of a potential top 6 side aiming for the top 4 consistently.

[Don Sholeone]

Player quality is an issue, but tactical issues are just as big, we can get the world's best LB, CM, RW etc. but that's fixing only half the problem. My opinion on Howe currently would be much different if I saw some shift in tactical approach, me wanting a change in management is because I just don't see him evolving or changing anything to rectify our problems. You can't stand still in football, you'll get eaten alive.

I'll be very worried if he stays and we spend money in the summer and see no change in approach on the pitch. I think that could be a disaster and potentially puts us back to square one.

[Slim999]

Also- if Southgate doesn't start Palmer in next England team- I'd say he's clueless & has to move on .

The kid is class and looks better every week

Ahead of who though? While Southgate's selections absolutely need to be scrutinised if you look at vaguely similar positions I wouldn't put him ahead of Saka, Foden or Bellingham.

Depends who we're playing I guess- but I could envisage an attacking 442 or 451 ....with Kane , Foden , Saka , Bellingham , Rice and Palmer making up the front 6 ahead of a back 4.

Saka in his usual right side with role - Bellingham & Rice as the midfield anchor & Palmer playing off the main striker - Foden more on the left .

[Valentino's fast feet]

Ahead of who though? While Southgate's selections absolutely need to be scrutinised if you look at vaguely similar positions I wouldn't put him ahead of Saka, Foden or Bellingham.

Depends who we're playing I guess- but I could envisage an attacking 442 or 451 ....with Kane , Foden , Saka , Bellingham , Rice and Palmer making up the front 6 ahead of a back 4.

Saka in his usual right side with role - Bellingham & Rice as the midfield anchor & Palmer playing off the main striker - Foden more on the left .

Y'know, that's bloody sexy that is. Be very surprised if Southgate employed that, but this round of friendlies is the perfect time to experiment you'd suppose. Stones in the defence would link up to fill the gap in midfield when everyone going forward. Would benefit from a mobile centre half next to him, mind.

[Colly]

Honestly I'd rather he just "experiment" by playing our outstanding 3 man midfield (Rice, Bellingham, Foden) in their correct positions, he's still been throwing Henderson and TAA in there. The nice experiment would have been that with Gordon on the left, but maybe not now...

[overseasTOON]

I've seen us play worse and get something from the game this season and it did at one point seem like it was two teams trying to demonstrate how not to retain any possession.

Burn was heavily exposed in the first half which made any break out by Chelsea quite simple to execute. It was only swapping our wingers over after about 35 minutes that made it more difficult for the opposition.

Murphy played well when he came on and was a threat in every attack and his goal was a beast of a strike.

Miggy was always there to cover for Burn after the swap and was often chasing a lost cause due to over hit passes.

Bruno did what he could but I found he was frequently trying to play passes that would have to defy the laws of physics to pull off.

Longstaff was wasteful in possession but I noticed that too often, for some reason the players seem to think he can hold up play with two/three opposition around him and he simply can't. That's a tactic we've got to bin.

First goal, I thought the defence was a tad flat footed. The ball was played in by Palmer and no one seemed to move in the box. Cute little nick by Jackson and in the back of the net.

Isak with a great equaliser. It was a style of play we'd tried so often in the game to feed through the defence rather than around it and paid off because the pass was nicely weighted this time.

Palmer for the second, nice clean strike and perhaps Dubravka could have got something on it. I feel Pope would have.

Third goal was chaotic as Gallagher was robbed by his own player to charge through when I think defence was covering a shot. Got caught by surprise, round the keeper and in.

Murphy for the second was a set up similar to Isak in a decent weighted pass though the defence, nice roll and a massive blast into the back of the net.

We've got the players to play though the defence but we'll never pull it off in every attack which is something we seem to be trying to do. Inevitable that we lose possession and then chase back.

The final third we've got to pick those moments to make them count. If you can't clearly play through, retain possession, look to go around the defence or bide time for the safer pass.

[Slim999]

I've seen us play worse and get something from the game this season and it did at one point seem like it was two teams trying to demonstrate how not to retain any possession.

Burn was heavily exposed in the first half which made any break out by Chelsea quite simple to execute. It was only swapping our wingers over after about 35 minutes that made it more difficult for the opposition.

Murphy played well when he came on and was a threat in every attack and his goal was a beast of a strike.

Miggy was always there to cover for Burn after the swap and was often chasing a lost cause due to over hit passes.

Bruno did what he could but I found he was frequently trying to play passes that would have to defy the laws of physics to pull off.

Longstaff was wasteful in possession but I noticed that too often, for some reason the players seem to think he can hold up play with two/three opposition around him and he simply can't. That's a tactic we've got to bin.

First goal, I thought the defence was a tad flat footed. The ball was played in by Palmer and no one seemed to move in the box. Cute little nick by Jackson and in the back of the net.

Isak with a great equaliser. It was a style of play we'd tried so often in the game to feed through the defence rather than around it and paid off because the pass was nicely weighted this time.

Palmer for the second, nice clean strike and perhaps Dubravka could have got something on it. I feel Pope would have.

Third goal was chaotic as Gallagher was robbed by his own player to charge through when I think defence was covering a shot. Got caught by surprise, round the keeper and in.

Murphy for the second was a set up similar to Isak in a decent weighted pass though the defence, nice roll and a massive blast into the back of the net.

We've got the players to play though the defence but we'll never pull it off in every attack which is something we seem to be trying to do. Inevitable that we lose possession and then chase back.

The final third we've got to pick those moments to make them count. If you can't clearly play through, retain possession, look to go around the defence or bide time for the safer pass.

Agree Murphy was good . Hes tireless and always positive

If we replace a couple of our mdfld / attacking mdfld options next term ( Almiron , Longstaff) - I'd definitely keep Murphy .

Hes quite adaptable whether he starts or comes in from the bench.

A very useful player imo

[bodacious benny]

I've always liked Murphy, but other than his goal last night I thought that his final ball / crossing was poor. Would happily keep him in the squad though, but sign a new starting right winger (sell Miggy, working hard isn't enough if you rarely ever score or assist from that position).

[Sanchino]

I've always liked Murphy, but other than his goal last night I thought that his final ball / crossing was poor. Would happily keep him in the squad though, but sign a new starting right winger (sell Miggy, working hard isn't enough if you rarely ever score or assist from that position).

This. I feel Murphy is more productive and consistent (sometimes) than Miggy (purple patch aside). Miggy just doesn't score, create enough chances or assist enough, especially this season looks back to his usual self which is Ok if we're just a mid-table side / top-half side not aiming for Europe but our ambitions are greater now and I feel like we need a top-class/elite RW to compliment Isak in the middle and Gordon on the left. Murphy as people have mentioned can be useful weather of the bench or starting and he won't put up a fuss is a excellent pro, can score a belter here n' there, has pace to burn and if he can find more consistency / better decision making (when to cross/when to shoot/when to pass) he'll be a big player for us. An example would be that cracking game he had against Spurs last season and Crystal Palace this season were he was MOTM with his goal, passing and crossing. I would sell Miggy as we'll get more money from him than Murphy either from the Saudis, etc he could easliy go for £20 - £25 mil and we can use that to reinvest in a starting RW.

I feel we missed a trick not buying Diaby in the summer. Would have been ideal to our set-up. Olise from Crystal Palace would show a real statement of intent but feel there's better teams in for him that can offer European football so will be tough to get him. Neto would be a great signing too but he seems injury-prone so would be a gamble especially at the reported 60 mil. Bowen another one similar to Olise that better teams would be in for team unfortunately. Foreign imports could be another option.. Nicolas Gonzalez, Johan Bakayoko, Yeremy Pino and Pedro Goncalves / Marcus Edwards look like good realistic options. The only reason I prefer a Premier League player is they already know the league so there's no settling in / gelling in period. A dark horse who could be interesting come summer time is our very own young player Mintah who looks to be settling in at Feyenoord really well scoring, assisting and looking a threat with his pace, finishing and skill. Still raw but potential is massive.. lets see how he does in pre-season and give him a shot if we don't loan him out.

[bodacious benny]

Olise would be class, but there will definitely be massive competition for him if he was available. Neto's injury issues this season might (understandably) put a lot of people off.

I think the unfortunate way to look at Miggy is that he'd fit in at Everton under Dyche..hard working, always gives 100%, will chase anything down, but ultimately not much use in the final third.

[Sanchino]

Olise would be class, but there will definitely be massive competition for him if he was available. Neto's injury issues this season might (understandably) put a lot of people off.

I think the unfortunate way to look at Miggy is that he'd fit in at Everton under Dyche..hard working, always gives 100%, will chase anything down, but ultimately not much use in the final third.

Agreed. Miggy would do well for most Spanish/Italian sides too as he'll have more space to run into, more time on the ball and less physical. He'll do good at A Atletico Madrid/Valencia/Villareal/Sevilla type side or Roma/Napoli/Atalanta/Lazio type side in the Seria A. I just think he doesn't have the quality at the top level to make a significant impact consistently and we need that next season if we want to achieve our top 6 - 4 goals consistently. Might as well sell him in the summer as he still has resale value and he's the type of player to play until his mid 30s so would be a good option for most teams outside of the top 10 in the Prem or top 6 overseas. Unless he goes Saudi for the money.

Murphy I would keep and have him as a squad player coming of the bench / starter if we get into the Conference / Europa / cup competitions. Mintah I'll loan out to a better league like Bundesliga/Seria A/La Liga IF we get a new RW as it'll be better for his development to play regular week in week out football at his age. Longstaff is another one I would consider selling as he seems to be the weakest link in our midfield and maybe we could get 15 mi+ for him from a Premier League side outside of the top 10 or a newly promoted team with ambition? He's had his purple patch too last season and I feel he's peaked / reached his limit with us. Miley, Willock and Anderson are our future along with Bruno, Tonali and Big Joe. We could always replace Longstaff with a younger better version of him like Onana/Kone/Rueben Neves/etc.

[bodacious benny]

Olise would be class, but there will definitely be massive competition for him if he was available. Neto's injury issues this season might (understandably) put a lot of people off.

I think the unfortunate way to look at Miggy is that he'd fit in at Everton under Dyche..hard working, always gives 100%, will chase anything down, but ultimately not much use in the final third.

Agreed. Miggy would do well for most Spanish/Italian sides too as he'll have more space to run into, more time on the ball and less physical. He'll do good at A Atletico Madrid/Valencia/Villareal/Sevilla type side or Roma/Napoli/Atalanta/Lazio type side in the Seria A. I just think he doesn't have the quality at the top level to make a significant impact consistently and we need that next season if we want to achieve our top 6 - 4 goals consistently. Might as well sell him in the summer as he still has resale value and he's the type of player to play until his mid 30s so would be a good option for most teams outside of the top 10 in the Prem or top 6 overseas. Unless he goes Saudi for the money.

Murphy I would keep and have him as a squad player coming of the bench / starter if we get into the Conference / Europa / cup competitions. Mintah I'll loan out to a better league like Bundesliga/Seria A/La Liga IF we get a new RW as it'll be better for his development to play regular week in week out football at his age. Longstaff is another one I would consider selling as he seems to be the weakest link in our midfield and maybe we could get 15 mi+ for him from a Premier League side outside of the top 10 or a newly promoted team with ambition? He's had his purple patch too last season and I feel he's peaked / reached his limit with us. Miley, Willock and Anderson are our future along with Bruno, Tonali and Big Joe. We could always replace Longstaff with a younger better version of him like Onana/Kone/Rueben Neves/etc.

Onana seems like a realistic move that has been mooted a lot, so could be on our A-list of targets.