Matchday thread - Toon v Toffees

[originallad]

Bew. On another day we convert those chances and win two or three goals.

Was that Lewis Hall going off with an injury? Beyond a joke. Just end the season now.

Aye. That offside goal changed the complexion of the game. It was so f***ing close too. That counts and we likely go on to score a third...but hey ho.

Think it was just cramp and exhaustion - here's hoping anyway!

[Chappy]

Wtf has happened to Longstaff? He's been utter s**** past couple of games....

[Colly]

Bew. On another day we convert those chances and win two or three goals.

Was that Lewis Hall going off with an injury? Beyond a joke. Just end the season now.

Aye. That offside goal changed the complexion of the game. It was so f***ing close too. That counts and we likely go on to score a third...but hey ho.

Think it was just cramp and exhaustion - here's hoping anyway!

Seemed to be holding his hip when he went down for a spell first half, who knows.

Longstaff's been playing injured for weeks, we just never get to a point when there's an alternative.

[bodacious benny]

Not sure how it looked on TV, but we were f***ing awful in the second half - couldn’t hold onto the ball at all and kept presenting it back to them.

Positives: Hall did quite well, Anderson looked good, Dubravka better than he has been, Burn much better as a centre back.

Negatives: Barnes struggled to get into the game, especially in the second half. Willock poor when he came on, Longstaff (injury or not) still poor.

Was it a penalty? Couldn’t tell what happened from where I was. Seemed to be a long time from the alleged offence, to when VAR checked it.

[jpg]

Not sure how it looked on TV, but we were f***ing awful in the second half - couldn’t hold onto the ball at all and kept presenting it back to them.

Positives: Hall did quite well, Anderson looked good, Dubravka better than he has been, Burn much better as a centre back.

Negatives: Barnes struggled to get into the game, especially in the second half. Willock poor when he came on, Longstaff (injury or not) still poor.

Was it a penalty? Couldn’t tell what happened from where I was. Seemed to be a long time from the alleged offence, to when VAR checked it.

He had him in a f***ing headlock

[Colly]

I left my woolly hat behind. Disaster of a night.

[bodacious benny]

Not sure how it looked on TV, but we were f***ing awful in the second half - couldn’t hold onto the ball at all and kept presenting it back to them.

Positives: Hall did quite well, Anderson looked good, Dubravka better than he has been, Burn much better as a centre back.

Negatives: Barnes struggled to get into the game, especially in the second half. Willock poor when he came on, Longstaff (injury or not) still poor.

Was it a penalty? Couldn’t tell what happened from where I was. Seemed to be a long time from the alleged offence, to when VAR checked it.

He had him in a f***ing headlock

Quite the impact sub

[Crouching Shola Hidden Talent]

I mean it was a penalty all day long.

We look gassed. Started well, but it feels more and more like Howe relies on the first 30/40 mins to see games out against teams. Everton grew into it and we just lacked ideas in the second half.

I hate to use injuries as a thing, but I do think we'd have had enough against this lot with a full squad to choose from

[Valentino's fast feet]

I left my woolly hat behind. Disaster of a night.

I feel you. A man needs a good hat.

[Valentino's fast feet]

I mean it was a penalty all day long.

We look gassed. Started well, but it feels more and more like Howe relies on the first 30/40 mins to see games out against teams. Everton grew into it and we just lacked ideas in the second half.

I hate to use injuries as a thing, but I do think we'd have had enough against this lot with a full squad to choose from

To be fair, I think injuries is an excuse at this point. I understand we've had more games and play at a high intensity, but the rate and seriousness of injuries this season is unprecedented. Before today's game, apparently this could've been an 'unavailable' XI.

Pope
Trippier - Lascelles - Botman - Livramento
Miley - Tonali - Joelinton
Almiron - Wilson - Gordon

Not just injuries because of tonali, and skewed slightly to include Gordon's suspension. But that's a solid team, that we just don't have at our disposal.

[bodacious benny]

I mean it was a penalty all day long.

We look gassed. Started well, but it feels more and more like Howe relies on the first 30/40 mins to see games out against teams. Everton grew into it and we just lacked ideas in the second half.

I hate to use injuries as a thing, but I do think we'd have had enough against this lot with a full squad to choose from

To be fair, I think injuries is an excuse at this point. I understand we've had more games and play at a high intensity, but the rate and seriousness of injuries this season is unprecedented. Before today's game, apparently this could've been an 'unavailable' XI.

Pope
Trippier - Lascelles - Botman - Livramento
Miley - Tonali - Joelinton
Almiron - Wilson - Gordon

Not just injuries because of tonali, and skewed slightly to include Gordon's suspension. But that's a solid team, that we just don't have at our disposal.

Yep, it has been unprecedented.

Tho to play devils advocate, isn’t there an argument that we should have adapted our style of play to mitigate against more injuries given how the season has unfolded and how many we’ve had? Or do we only have one way of playing? If you continue to get injury after injury and are stuck in that cycle, why keep doing exactly the same things…

Not saying that’s my opinion, just an alternative perspective on it. Players clearly “in the red” continue to be told to play with the same intensity.

[Crouching Shola Hidden Talent]

To be fair, I think injuries is an excuse at this point. I understand we've had more games and play at a high intensity, but the rate and seriousness of injuries this season is unprecedented. Before today's game, apparently this could've been an 'unavailable' XI.

Pope
Trippier - Lascelles - Botman - Livramento
Miley - Tonali - Joelinton
Almiron - Wilson - Gordon

Not just injuries because of tonali, and skewed slightly to include Gordon's suspension. But that's a solid team, that we just don't have at our disposal.

Yep, it has been unprecedented.

Tho to play devils advocate, isn’t there an argument that we should have adapted our style of play to mitigate against more injuries given how the season has unfolded and how many we’ve had? Or do we only have one way of playing? If you continue to get injury after injury and are stuck in that cycle, why keep doing exactly the same things…

Not saying that’s my opinion, just an alternative perspective on it. Players clearly “in the red” continue to be told to play with the same intensity.

This is it for me (and I understand it's an oversimplification) in so much that we just play the same way all the time. Consistency is great, of course, but when your players are dropping like flies is flogging them to death the only way? And even then, because we are missing the players that can do that the best (Joelinton for example), do we need to make players who aren't built that way do the same job?

The lull this season was always going to happen, and any sensible fan knew that, and I do think Howe has done really well with the injuries we've had. We still look threatening, we score goals and he's brought out the best in the likes of Gordon, Schar etc. My only frustration sometimes is that there is seemingly no desire to make those little changes when needed.

I for one am 100% in Howe's camp, but I would like to see that ability to change it up a little more

[Sanchino]

Yep, it has been unprecedented.

Tho to play devils advocate, isn’t there an argument that we should have adapted our style of play to mitigate against more injuries given how the season has unfolded and how many we’ve had? Or do we only have one way of playing? If you continue to get injury after injury and are stuck in that cycle, why keep doing exactly the same things…

Not saying that’s my opinion, just an alternative perspective on it. Players clearly “in the red” continue to be told to play with the same intensity.

This is it for me (and I understand it's an oversimplification) in so much that we just play the same way all the time. Consistency is great, of course, but when your players are dropping like flies is flogging them to death the only way? And even then, because we are missing the players that can do that the best (Joelinton for example), do we need to make players who aren't built that way do the same job?

The lull this season was always going to happen, and any sensible fan knew that, and I do think Howe has done really well with the injuries we've had. We still look threatening, we score goals and he's brought out the best in the likes of Gordon, Schar etc. My only frustration sometimes is that there is seemingly no desire to make those little changes when needed.

I for one am 100% in Howe's camp, but I would like to see that ability to change it up a little more

This.

I hope this point doesn't come back to bite us and we end up in the Conference League instead of the Europa now because of this result. Injuries haven't helped but inconsistency and our defensive fragilities will also be the reason we don't end up getting no European football. On the positive side.. final 8 games are all WINNABLE/DRAWS (of course getting some players back would help too and increase our chances).. we can't afford to lose too many more games/drop points now.

Fulham (a) - Winnable. Not in the best of form right now and with Gordon back we can do some damage in attack. Just worried about the defence hope Trippier / Hall are fit to start.

Tottenham (h) - Dangerous game could go either way but could see us at least getting a point if not all three.. definitely can see more than 3/4 goals being scored with Spurs' style of play.

Crystal Palace (a) - Winnable. Especially if Eze/Olise not playing.

Shefield United (h) - Winnable (MUST win). If we can't beat the worst side / bottom side in the League we don't definitely don't deserve no European football.

Burnley (a) - Winnable (similar to Shefield United) if we can't win against a poor Burnley side we don't deserve nothing. Couple players should be coming back into the fold from injury (fingers cross) that can help us in the May games.

Brighton (h) - Need to get revenge at home from that awful 3-1 defeat at there ground. Dangerous game as there a good footballing side but like us they tend to concede some soft goals and are vulnerable in transition. Should have enough to edge it.

Brentford (a) - Dangerous game but if the European places are up for grabs we need to win / at least get a point out of this especially if things are looking tight in the top 7/8. There a good team at home but beatable.. apart from Toney n some of there other attackers (Mbembo/etc) I wouldn't worry too much if can play to our potential and strengths it's a winnable game.

Man United (a) - Has a date being scheduled for this game yet?? Could see us nicking a point.. but could lose aswell just have a bad feeling about this game.


Out of a possible 24 points if we can get anywhere between 15-18 then European football could be on the cards. that's potentially 5 wins, 2 draws and 1 loss. Let's think positive!!!

[bodacious benny]

Yes, I think that all things considered, if we finish 8th along with 2 cups quarter finals it hasn’t been a bad season. If this team on its arse for 80% of the season with an entire first XI missing most of the time can do this, then if/when we sort the injuries next season we should comfortably be challenging for top 6 at least (that’s without any additions).

I am pro-Howe, hopefully he has also learnt from this season and becomes less rigid and more willing to give other players a shot. Burn for example has shown that he’s a decent PL CB, if we’d shifted him over and played someone else at LB earlier can’t help but think we might have done better in some games but it took injuries to Tino, Trippier, Botman and Lascelles for him to do it.

Our goal scoring record has been incredible, if we can tighten up a bit this team has huge potential. Obvs a new centre back is top of the list for summer, and a midfielder if Bruno/Joe go.

[Valentino's fast feet]

Yes, I think that all things considered, if we finish 8th along with 2 cups quarter finals it hasn’t been a bad season. If this team on its arse for 80% of the season with an entire first XI missing most of the time can do this, then if/when we sort the injuries next season we should comfortably be challenging for top 6 at least (that’s without any additions).

I am pro-Howe, hopefully he has also learnt from this season and becomes less rigid and more willing to give other players a shot. Burn for example has shown that he’s a decent PL CB, if we’d shifted him over and played someone else at LB earlier can’t help but think we might have done better in some games but it took injuries to Tino, Trippier, Botman and Lascelles for him to do it.

Our goal scoring record has been incredible, if we can tighten up a bit this team has huge potential. Obvs a new centre back is top of the list for summer, and a midfielder if Bruno/Joe go.

Absolutely. This has definitely been a difficult season, unprecedented even, but it's not been a bad one. Obviously some lows, but also some highs. I disagree with what appears to be the general consensus of turning the nose up at the conference league. Firstly, it'd be good for us to raise our european coefficients going forward. Second, the extra games will be vital experience for the squad to get up to speed, something that clearly affected us with the intensity of the CL. Finally, we are a club that hasn't won any kind of real trophy in a million years. We surely can't be arrogant enough to turn down any chance to win any kind of competition, it may be new and it may be seen as "tin pot" by the established elite, but we aren't that. Not yet. I'd love us to win the whole f***ing thing.

[originallad]

Yup. As others have said. I'm in the Howe in camp..although there are question marks over a lack of a true plan B.

Some people say you can't blame injuries. Yes you can. It's been unprecedented. The worst I've ever seen. Plus having Tonali out the whole season. And it's been constant. Soon as a player comes back, another gets injured. Certainly that is bad luck but also questions need to be asked about our medical/fitness team too.

And I'd definitely take the Europa Conference if it was up for grabs for points that Valentino has made but also because I just love watching us in Europe.

[overseasTOON]

Every club should be looking very closely at why everyone seems to have so many injuries this season - the numbers are vastly up in comparison to the last few seasons.

Could it be the increase in time added on as we seem to play an extra 10/15 minutes per game? Couple that with our high intensity play and it could be our biggest problem going forward.

I'm still 100% behind Howe but I do have some criticism for squad rotation and giving players a slight break as well as his devotion to playing Burn as a LB when we have better players available on the bench.

Played in the Champions League and gave a good account of ourselves.

Reached two quarter finals in domestic cups which is fantastic.

Still in with a shot of qualifying for a European spot next season.

We've had far, far worse seasons.

[Sanchino]

Yes, I think that all things considered, if we finish 8th along with 2 cups quarter finals it hasn’t been a bad season. If this team on its arse for 80% of the season with an entire first XI missing most of the time can do this, then if/when we sort the injuries next season we should comfortably be challenging for top 6 at least (that’s without any additions).

I am pro-Howe, hopefully he has also learnt from this season and becomes less rigid and more willing to give other players a shot. Burn for example has shown that he’s a decent PL CB, if we’d shifted him over and played someone else at LB earlier can’t help but think we might have done better in some games but it took injuries to Tino, Trippier, Botman and Lascelles for him to do it.

Our goal scoring record has been incredible, if we can tighten up a bit this team has huge potential. Obvs a new centre back is top of the list for summer, and a midfielder if Bruno/Joe go.

Absolutely. This has definitely been a difficult season, unprecedented even, but it's not been a bad one. Obviously some lows, but also some highs. I disagree with what appears to be the general consensus of turning the nose up at the conference league. Firstly, it'd be good for us to raise our european coefficients going forward. Second, the extra games will be vital experience for the squad to get up to speed, something that clearly affected us with the intensity of the CL. Finally, we are a club that hasn't won any kind of real trophy in a million years. We surely can't be arrogant enough to turn down any chance to win any kind of competition, it may be new and it may be seen as "tin pot" by the established elite, but we aren't that. Not yet. I'd love us to win the whole f***ing thing.

Well said.

[Colly]

I'm still baffled by the "don't want UCL" crowd. If nothing else if no one cares surely that's more opportunities for people to get a ticket, but I suspect we'll sell out every game.