Telegraph: Players and staff involved in angry training row

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Telegraph: Players and staff involved in angry training row

Post by Double Agent Bruce a.k.a DAB » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:05 pm

Newcastle United’s training ground has witnessed a series of angry exchanges between players and staff this week as head coach Steve McClaren is furious with the attitude of some of his senior players.
McClaren was incensed by the timid manner in which Newcastle capitulated in their 3-0 home defeat to Leicester City last weekend and has told individuals in the squad some home truths this week in an effort to provoke a positive response against Crystal Palace on Saturday.
It is a risky strategy given the long-standing problems motivating the Newcastle dressing room, but supporters will back McClaren's confrontational stance as they are also sick and tired of putting up with half-hearted displays from the same group of players who have been under-achieving for months.
More here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... grows.html

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Re: Telegraph: Players and staff involved in angry training

Post by Ramone » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:14 pm

So it begins
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Re: Telegraph: Players and staff involved in angry training

Post by bodacious benny » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:15 pm

Pretty much every one of the useless bastards deserves it.

Most are only in the first team as we've no other options. Shame we don't have the luxury of dumping them to the reserves for a few matches.

Should start fining them for poor performances seen as most of them only want the money.
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Re: Telegraph: Players and staff involved in angry training

Post by Lidl » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:09 pm

Drop the lot of them and play the U21s I say.
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Re: Telegraph: Players and staff involved in angry training

Post by beatski » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:10 pm

I'll never understand why supposed fans* are so eager to create additional strife whenever the club is doing badly. I'd question the veracity of everything in that article tbh.

They have been proper gash the last couple of matches though, any promising signs from earlier in the season have been somehow forgotten.

*Does Edwards support Newcastle? if not, it still applies to the rumours you see cropping up from others.

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Re: Telegraph: Players and staff involved in angry training

Post by Micky Quim » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:49 pm

They played s*** so McClaren shouted at them. Whoopee do.

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Re: Telegraph: Players and staff involved in angry training

Post by beatski » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:59 pm

Micky Quim wrote:They played s*** so McClaren shouted at them. Whoopee do.
<laugh>

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Re: Telegraph: Players and staff involved in angry training

Post by el héroe » Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:12 pm

I'm sick of seeing foreign player names banjoed about all the time. it has to be crystal now that you need PM experienced players as the spine of your team with a couple of talented outsiders on the wings. Just wish he would drop the 4-2-3-1 formation, it aint ever gonna work with the players we have. Get back to 4-4-2 attacking style or even 4-3-3 and keep the defenders back then less cover needed for them so we can attack more !! If he drops Mirovic this weekend he wants a size 12 up his arse. That lad relys on good service which he aint getting with this formation. <neg>
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Re: Telegraph: Players and staff involved in angry training

Post by Amnesiac » Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:29 pm

McClaren is out of his depth.

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Re: Telegraph: Players and staff involved in angry training

Post by Chappy » Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:55 pm

Spineless. Lot of em.
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Re: Telegraph: Players and staff involved in angry training

Post by Goat » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:37 pm

Amnesiac wrote:McClaren is out of his depth.
He's really not, in my view.

Carver was without a doubt, but McClaren has considerably more experience and success, with even more success than many of the players.

Managed England, managed in the Premier League and managed in two different foreign leagues, with a league title to show for it. If the Newcastle manager's job is above him, then we don't have a hope in hell, because we'll struggle to bring in anyone much more established.

After the eras of Pardew, Carver and now McClaren, it's becoming very clear to me now that the problem is the players. We've simply been unfortunate enough to sign up a large number of mentally weak individuals who don't have a winning mentality. The whole squad, and especially the bad eggs, need to be overhauled before we have any hope of higher table finishes.

We could sack McClaren and keep trying manager after manager, but I just don't think it's ever going to work. The attitude of many of these players is toxic, and they drag the whole team down with them. McClaren was spot on when he called them fair weather players. They barely have any natural fight in them.

Unfortunately, the club's financial policy is going to make an overhaul very difficult to achieve. Even if it's in the best interests of the club and the performances to replace certain players, we won't sell them unless we get fees on the higher end of the scale.

In the January and summer transfer windows, I'd honestly prefer to see just as many players leaving as players coming in. Many of them need to go for the good of the club.
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Re: Telegraph: Players and staff involved in angry training

Post by PFT » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:54 pm

Even though he left at the second opportunity at least when Cabaye was here we had someone who seemed to want to win , and actually made an effort. There isn't anyone like that in our squad , maybe Colback but he's such a poor footballer he just runs around chucking himself into tackles.

I genuinely think if we got rid of Sissoko and Colo then we'd seen a completely different team , their attitudes must be poisonous in the dressing room. One of them constantly talking about going elsewhere and the other being club captain but there to just collect a pay packet.
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Re: Telegraph: Players and staff involved in angry training

Post by Heisen » Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:00 am

Good.

A gigantic overhaul is needed next summer, regardless if stay up or go down. Sissoko and Coloccini need their bags packed and kicked out the door asap, hopefully with Tiote, Anita, Dummett, Colback, Obertan and Cisse right behind them. I'd do it in January if they had the balls (which they won't). Coloccini especially is to me a poison that needs removed. We won't see any improvement until that happy day arrives.
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Re: Telegraph: Players and staff involved in angry training

Post by PFT » Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:03 am

I genuinely cannot imagine Colo being welcoming to new signings and showing them round the club. I can just imagine him going through the motions, sitting around sulking. The way he carries himself on the pitch and his lack of reaction to when we concede just shows how much he cares, or how little he cares.
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Re: Telegraph: Players and staff involved in angry training

Post by CheickyTiote » Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:21 am

Goat wrote:
Amnesiac wrote:McClaren is out of his depth.
He's really not, in my view.

Carver was without a doubt, but McClaren has considerably more experience and success, with even more success than many of the players.

Managed England, managed in the Premier League and managed in two different foreign leagues, with a league title to show for it. If the Newcastle manager's job is above him, then we don't have a hope in hell, because we'll struggle to bring in anyone much more established.

After the eras of Pardew, Carver and now McClaren, it's becoming very clear to me now that the problem is the players. We've simply been unfortunate enough to sign up a large number of mentally weak individuals who don't have a winning mentality. The whole squad, and especially the bad eggs, need to be overhauled before we have any hope of higher table finishes.

We could sack McClaren and keep trying manager after manager, but I just don't think it's ever going to work. The attitude of many of these players is toxic, and they drag the whole team down with them. McClaren was spot on when he called them fair weather players. They barely have any natural fight in them.

Unfortunately, the club's financial policy is going to make an overhaul very difficult to achieve. Even if it's in the best interests of the club and the performances to replace certain players, we won't sell them unless we get fees on the higher end of the scale.

In the January and summer transfer windows, I'd honestly prefer to see just as many players leaving as players coming in. Many of them need to go for the good of the club.
I don't think it's as simple as saying we've been "unfortunate enough to sign up a large number of mentally weak individuals who don't have a winning mentality".

We've signed players who had success at previous clubs before coming here, who have showed signs of that winning mentality.

I think it's the whole mentality of the club. The mixture of poor attitudes from several groups of players and lack of competition for places. Also for years we've showed little ambition, happy to stay in the PL, sign players cheap and sell them on to bigger clubs.

The only reason players would come here rather than playing CL football (some leaving CL clubs e.g. Wij, Anita, Cabaye, Debuchy etc) is because they see us as a stepping stone to one of Europe's big clubs. This must be a big selling point from the board when signing players. It does work for a few players, who are really busting a gut to improve and show what they can do on the pitch in hopes of a bigger move (Cabaye, Ba, Perez etc). Now players are happy to come here, get paid a lot more than they were on and think that because previous players have got their dream moves to Europe's elite, that they will too, they think it's just that easy. See Sissoko. We've become a "stepping stone" club.

Then there's the attitude of players like Cisse, Tiote, Coloccini who are on big wages, know they have contracts to see out and also know if something goes wrong (i.e. relegation) that they have a get out clause because they can just go somewhere else, so nothing to worry about. We cleared a lot of these types out the last time we were relegated, but it's still a problem.

The majority of these players will just get picked week in week out because there's no competition for places really, especially when we get a few injuries. It doesn't matter how poorly they play or how little effort they put in, some of them just won't get dropped.

If this is the attitude that most of our more senior players have, or even our best players on paper in some places, then it's never going to work. If anything this will just filter down throughout the entire squad, especially when your captain doesn't care anymore.

Don't get me wrong, there are some players who probably really are bothered about the club and how they play, such as the local lads or possibly those who know they're lucky to be playing for Newcastle or in the PL because unfortunately they aren't good enough. The likes of Colback, Dummett, Anita, even Willo or Obertan to an extent. This is the reason many want to see us signing more British players because they seem to care about the club more and understand what it means to the fans. Although, they still need to have PL quality, which is getting harder to find in Britain!

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Re: Telegraph: Players and staff involved in angry training

Post by Goat » Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:06 pm

CheickyTiote wrote: I don't think it's as simple as saying we've been "unfortunate enough to sign up a large number of mentally weak individuals who don't have a winning mentality".

We've signed players who had success at previous clubs before coming here, who have showed signs of that winning mentality.
That's what fair weather players are. They play well when everything is going their way, but crumble when things start to get more tough or when it's more of an uphill battle.

It happened in the Pardew era as well. I can't remember the exact stats, but I think we lost almost every game where we went behind first. The team is just too mentally fragile. There's far too much situational confidence and not enough core confidence within the players. Once the going gets tough any fight goes out of the window and they start to feel sorry for themselves. It's happened with Pardew, Carver and now McClaren.
The only reason players would come here rather than playing CL football (some leaving CL clubs e.g. Wij, Anita, Cabaye, Debuchy etc) is because they see us as a stepping stone to one of Europe's big clubs. This must be a big selling point from the board when signing players. It does work for a few players, who are really busting a gut to improve and show what they can do on the pitch in hopes of a bigger move (Cabaye, Ba, Perez etc). Now players are happy to come here, get paid a lot more than they were on and think that because previous players have got their dream moves to Europe's elite, that they will too, they think it's just that easy. See Sissoko. We've become a "stepping stone" club.
Every team outside the top 4/5 is a stepping stone club, so there's nothing new there, really. Many other mid/lower table teams sign foreign players without this problem. It's been a fact for decades that if you prove yourself is a top class player in a lower-level club, one of the top clubs may eventually come in for you.

I don't really see a solution to this so-called problem unless the club stops signing foreign players, but again, many other clubs sign overseas players and do just fine, and have done for a long time.

I don't think this issue is to do with the approach to transfers in general. It's just that we're stuck in a situation with a few players who have that sort of mindset. It doesn't discredit buying overseas players entirely (after all, our 5th place finish season had almost all foreign players in the team), but it does mean that we have to get rid of the bad eggs in the team as soon as possible.
Don't get me wrong, there are some players who probably really are bothered about the club and how they play, such as the local lads or possibly those who know they're lucky to be playing for Newcastle or in the PL because unfortunately they aren't good enough. The likes of Colback, Dummett, Anita, even Willo or Obertan to an extent. This is the reason many want to see us signing more British players because they seem to care about the club more and understand what it means to the fans. Although, they still need to have PL quality, which is getting harder to find in Britain!
British is over-rated. Loads of other clubs have teams made up largely of foreign players, so why is it suddenly so much more important for us?

Our British players have been some of the most s**** players we've had. The likes of Dummett, Colback and Williamson have been lacking in fight just as much as any other player in the team. Meanwhile, some of the players with the most fight and passion, such as Perez and Mitrovic, are foreign.

I'd prefer more players with PL experience, but I don't care if they're British or foreign. I've seen no evidence that British players have any more fight or passion as a whole.
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Re: Telegraph: Players and staff involved in angry training

Post by Heisen » Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:16 pm

Get rid of Sissoko and Coloccini in January, get several quality players in (some with PL experience would be nice for once) and I think we should have just about enough to stay up. Then get to work in the summer with the rest of the rebuilding.

If we don't act fast in January though we're absolutely screwed. Pivotal we get rid of the bad eggs.
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Re: Telegraph: Players and staff involved in angry training

Post by Bruuuuuuuuce () » Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:24 pm

It's going to be almost impossible to get rid of Coloccini in January. When McClaren came in, he had the perfect chance to end the era of fragile minds and laziness but he went to extend his contract! Whoever advised him to do this needs flogging. An absolutely appalling decision to make and one that baffled the majority of us.

In the hope of getting rid of Coloccini, I'd try and just offer him out for free. Surely San Lorenzo or Boca Juniors will be interested? He has very little value to us or in the transfer market that the most we'd get is a couple of million and what is that to us?

As a possible temporary fix, I'd look at trying to get someone like Michael Dawson or Curtis Davies (obviously try and get Mike Williamson to go in the other direction to soften their blow). They're not the greatest of defenders but they will do a job, mark someone and put graft in, which is more than can be said for our current 'Captain'.

Sissoko on the other hand will have a couple of suitors but I feel our asking price is doing us damage. The circle is that we must play him so he can prove he is worth what we ask for him. If we don't play him, we'll never sell him for what we want to but in playing him every week, we lessen our chances of winning. £12m would be a snip but enough to warrant selling Sissoko, in my opinion. I feel that once these two are out of the door, we then give the captaincy to Wijnaldum, move him into centre midfield and bring in a winger and either a defensive midfielder who doesn't get booked every other tackle they make or someone who will make decisive passes.

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Re: Telegraph: Players and staff involved in angry training

Post by overseasTOON » Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:03 pm

Micky Quim wrote:They played s*** so McClaren shouted at them. Whoopee do.
I agree.

**** them in their overpaid prima-donna faces if they can't take a bit of verbal given they've played like utter twats for far too long. I've seen more backbone in an amoeba, more grit in a ****ing cockle and the more determination in a fat kid given a fiver to spend in a sweet shop.

Read them the riot act and tell them to prove the criticism is unfounded and not just for one match; every ****ing match until the end of the season because too many in this shower of s**** think one fairly decent performance a month is good enough.

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Re: Telegraph: Players and staff involved in angry training

Post by Southern fairy » Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:17 pm

overseasTOON wrote:
Micky Quim wrote:They played s*** so McClaren shouted at them. Whoopee do.
I agree.

**** them in their overpaid prima-donna faces if they can't take a bit of verbal given they've played like utter twats for far too long. I've seen more backbone in an amoeba, more grit in a ****ing cockle and the more determination in a fat kid given a fiver to spend in a sweet shop.

Read them the riot act and tell them to prove the criticism is unfounded and not just for one match; every ****ing match until the end of the season because too many in this shower of s**** think one fairly decent performance a month is good enough.
I really want to know what that first **** was. I'm imagining various scenarios. None of which are pretty.
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