Beardsley future Toon gaffer?

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Re: Beardsley future Toon gaffer?

Post by Don Sholeone » Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:22 am

Seeing what was said I can see why it could potentially have been taken out of context, if he's said the running and climbing bit purely based on race then absolutely he should be booted out, but if he's told a bunch of wingers or attacking players who just happen to be black that they should be better runners within a footballing context or said the climbing bit to the more physical and stronger players then I can see how it could be twisted into a racial matter, as for the made up language thing I can't see that being anything other then ignorance or I'll thought out comments, I'll wait till the full facts are established before making judgement though, but it doesn't look good for him atm.
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Re: Beardsley future Toon gaffer?

Post by Sir Bobby » Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:23 pm

Interesting hearing Kieron Dyer's take on this on the True Geordie podcast. He said he doesn't think Beardsley has a bad bone in his body based on the times he's been around him. I reckon it could quite easily be a situation where Beardsley, who let's face it clearly isn't all that bright, thinks he's taking part in some racial "banter" that probably used to be considered a form of bonding in the 80s. I mean Beardsley was playing in the FA Cup game in 1988 where John Barnes had a banana thrown at him and nonchalantly kicked it off the pitch. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if, as a way of skirting the deeper issue at hand, they laughed it off with jokes in the changing room after the game, so to his simple mind he could quite easily think racial jokes are a way of showing solidarity rather than poking fun at historical injustices, as they're generally regarded nowadays. There's also the fact that back in those days he was an equal to the likes of Barnes, both being players, but now he's in a position of higher status and power than the players which would much more easily create a feeling of discontent.

It's a tricky situation since coming down on Beardsley would disgrace him and make it seem as if he was a racist with bad intentions and was saying the comments in order to offend - which it seems from most accounts isn't the case - but equally not coming down on him suggests you condone such comments being said, which is obviously wrong too. I think his position is untenable but getting rid of him is also tricky which might be why this is becoming such a drawn out affair. If something is quite clearly wrong but there's no intent behind it then what do you do about it?

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Re: Beardsley future Toon gaffer?

Post by Toondes » Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:06 pm

I think you are making a wild assumption that Beardsley doesn’t have the intelligence to know if he’s being racist or not.
Times have changed a lot in the last 30 years and I’m sure he knows exactly what’s acceptable to say and what’s not , especially in the role that he has .

As has been mentioned , we dont know the context or even what was exactly said.
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Re: Beardsley future Toon gaffer?

Post by Sir Bobby » Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:23 pm

Toondes wrote:I think you are making a wild assumption that Beardsley doesn’t have the intelligence to know if he’s being racist or not.
Times have changed a lot in the last 30 years and I’m sure he knows exactly what’s acceptable to say and what’s not , especially in the role that he has .

As has been mentioned , we dont know the context or even what was exactly said.
Have you met him, or seen him interviewed? I really don't think it's a wild assumption to suggest he probably has an IQ around 80 (ie the level where normal cognitive functioning is impaired). He's dim. Of course we don't know the context, hence the speculation, but speculatively speaking I think it's more likely that he's said something that he thought was jokey/friendly than something done to hurt. That's not defending what allegedly was said since, as I suggested, it's indefensible. But it explains why no decision has been made. If it was said with any form of intent I'm pretty sure he would have been sacked by now, even if he had been teased, belittled or wound up into saying it.

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Re: Beardsley future Toon gaffer?

Post by Toondes » Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:13 pm

Sir Bobby wrote:
Toondes wrote:I think you are making a wild assumption that Beardsley doesn’t have the intelligence to know if he’s being racist or not.
Times have changed a lot in the last 30 years and I’m sure he knows exactly what’s acceptable to say and what’s not , especially in the role that he has .

As has been mentioned , we dont know the context or even what was exactly said.
Have you met him, or seen him interviewed? I really don't think it's a wild assumption to suggest he probably has an IQ around 80 (ie the level where normal cognitive functioning is impaired). He's dim. Of course we don't know the context, hence the speculation, but speculatively speaking I think it's more likely that he's said something that he thought was jokey/friendly than something done to hurt. That's not defending what allegedly was said since, as I suggested, it's indefensible. But it explains why no decision has been made. If it was said with any form of intent I'm pretty sure he would have been sacked by now, even if he had been teased, belittled or wound up into saying it.
I think you may be confusing his speech impediment with a lack of intelligence . I have met him twice and certainly don’t think his normal cognitive function was impaired .
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Re: Beardsley future Toon gaffer?

Post by Colly » Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:00 pm

He's just a man who enjoys watching his Oatso Simple go round and round.

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Re: Beardsley future Toon gaffer?

Post by Hjl » Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:03 pm

This thread still going on? He's a prick, isn't it settled?

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Re: Beardsley future Toon gaffer?

Post by Sir Bobby » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:48 pm

Toondes wrote:
Sir Bobby wrote:
Have you met him, or seen him interviewed? I really don't think it's a wild assumption to suggest he probably has an IQ around 80 (ie the level where normal cognitive functioning is impaired). He's dim. Of course we don't know the context, hence the speculation, but speculatively speaking I think it's more likely that he's said something that he thought was jokey/friendly than something done to hurt. That's not defending what allegedly was said since, as I suggested, it's indefensible. But it explains why no decision has been made. If it was said with any form of intent I'm pretty sure he would have been sacked by now, even if he had been teased, belittled or wound up into saying it.
I think you may be confusing his speech impediment with a lack of intelligence . I have met him twice and certainly don’t think his normal cognitive function was impaired .
Well I imagine to you he seemed like a genius <whistle>

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Re: Beardsley future Toon gaffer?

Post by Toondes » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:12 pm

Sir Bobby wrote:
Toondes wrote: I think you may be confusing his speech impediment with a lack of intelligence . I have met him twice and certainly don’t think his normal cognitive function was impaired .
Well I imagine to you he seemed like a genius <whistle>
Shut up you cronut
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Re: Beardsley future Toon gaffer?

Post by TJR » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:26 pm

It was probably just a few poorly judged attempts at banter combined with a bit of ignorance.

Go to most pubs and you'll see blokes of a similar age making similar comments. It doesn't mean they or Beardsley are racist, just a bit stupid and behind the times.

The club should just let this investigation go on until the end of the season then brush it under the carpet / hope it gets forgotten about. In the summer move him upstairs to an ambassador role similar to Moncur and get someone a bit fresher in to manage the U23s.

He isn't racist, he's just made a mistake. Cutting ties with him completely would be an overreaction.

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Re: Beardsley future Toon gaffer?

Post by Sir Bobby » Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:26 am

Toondes wrote:
Sir Bobby wrote:
Well I imagine to you he seemed like a genius <whistle>
Shut up you cronut
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Re: Beardsley future Toon gaffer?

Post by Luque » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:20 am

TJR wrote:It was probably just a few poorly judged attempts at banter combined with a bit of ignorance.

Go to most pubs and you'll see blokes of a similar age making similar comments. It doesn't mean they or Beardsley are racist, just a bit stupid and behind the times.

The club should just let this investigation go on until the end of the season then brush it under the carpet / hope it gets forgotten about. In the summer move him upstairs to an ambassador role similar to Moncur and get someone a bit fresher in to manage the U23s.

He isn't racist, he's just made a mistake. Cutting ties with him completely would be an overreaction.
Brush it under the carpet and make him a f***ing ambassador? Ambassador for where? Send him to EDL functions and Trump rally’s to try and increase support?

How does that look if we come to a tame conclusion and make him a face of our organisation? My god. No thanks.

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Re: Beardsley future Toon gaffer?

Post by Colly » Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:44 am

Luque wrote:
TJR wrote:It was probably just a few poorly judged attempts at banter combined with a bit of ignorance.

Go to most pubs and you'll see blokes of a similar age making similar comments. It doesn't mean they or Beardsley are racist, just a bit stupid and behind the times.

The club should just let this investigation go on until the end of the season then brush it under the carpet / hope it gets forgotten about. In the summer move him upstairs to an ambassador role similar to Moncur and get someone a bit fresher in to manage the U23s.

He isn't racist, he's just made a mistake. Cutting ties with him completely would be an overreaction.
Brush it under the carpet and make him a f***ing ambassador? Ambassador for where? Send him to EDL functions and Trump rally’s to try and increase support?

How does that look if we come to a tame conclusion and make him a face of our organisation? My god. No thanks.
This. f*** me.

Also, as I've said previously you can't compare Beardsley to someone who's worked in the shipyards for 40 years. The man's played with and coached players from a massive variety of backgrounds for 30 years, he doesn't have the "oh it's just your nan" excuse.

I do feel for him as he was a hero of mine as a player, but if the investigation finds that he should be dismissed so be it. He certainly won't be doing any embassadorial work.

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Re: Beardsley future Toon gaffer?

Post by skalpel » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:36 am

Colly wrote:
Luque wrote:
Brush it under the carpet and make him a f***ing ambassador? Ambassador for where? Send him to EDL functions and Trump rally’s to try and increase support?

How does that look if we come to a tame conclusion and make him a face of our organisation? My god. No thanks.
This. f*** me.

Also, as I've said previously you can't compare Beardsley to someone who's worked in the shipyards for 40 years. The man's played with and coached players from a massive variety of backgrounds for 30 years, he doesn't have the "oh it's just your nan" excuse.

I do feel for him as he was a hero of mine as a player, but if the investigation finds that he should be dismissed so be it. He certainly won't be doing any embassadorial work.
But you can, apparently, compare him to an EDL member.

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Re: Beardsley future Toon gaffer?

Post by Colly » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:53 am

That's not really what he's done there though. He's through the gift of hyperbole showing where the club could send an ambassador involved in a high profile investigation involving racism.

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Re: Beardsley future Toon gaffer?

Post by skalpel » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:01 am

Colly wrote:That's not really what he's done there though. He's through the gift of hyperbole showing where the club could send an ambassador involved in a high profile investigation involving racism.
Precisely my point. I like a spot of celebrity iconoclasm as much as the next guy but dipping into hyperbole, especially on a topic like this, does rational argument no favours. If you're happy to see this debate descend into one guy shouting "he's a f***ing nazi!" and another guy shouting "you have to say chalkboard nowadays too!!!!11" then fair enough, but I didn't get that impression from the rest of your posts.

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Re: Beardsley future Toon gaffer?

Post by Colly » Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:02 pm

But again though that's not what he's said. :/

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Re: Beardsley future Toon gaffer?

Post by skalpel » Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:32 pm

Colly wrote:But again though that's not what he's said. :/
He joked that Beardsley's opinions would be a good recruiter at an EDL function. Jokes are jokes, obviously who cares, but I'm just a bit bored of seeing discussions online descend into hyperbole and it always begins with someone using it jokingly in order to make a serious point. Not sure that this relatively banal point is worth a semantic debate when its simply the invoking of the EDL that made my eyes roll.

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Re: Beardsley future Toon gaffer?

Post by Colly » Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:50 pm

I think you're probably right, but I think he makes a good point. Even if he isn't found guilty to a sackable extent a person in an embassadorial role has to be more or less squeaky clean and at this point he isn't. Admittedly thanks to Ashley's ownership there are fewer legends than I'd like involved with the club, but I don't think you can have the good work that Olly Bernard does alongside the damaged goods that Beardsley now is.

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Re: Beardsley future Toon gaffer?

Post by Tsi » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:36 am

Couple of sites reporting this
Peter Beardsley did make discriminatory comments’ finds Independent Panel

an independent appeal has found that ‘Peter Beardsley did treat Yasin Ben El-Mhanni unfairly and make discriminatory comments.’

The appeal also found that ‘His treatment of player Yasin Ben El-Mhanni was found to be ‘generally unfair’ when Beardsley was in charge.

Pretty sad because he was a hero of mine (and many others) but totally unacceptable behaviour which looks like costing him his job and reputation and rightly so.

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