POLL: Who's To Blame For Our Current Slump?

[Heisen]

The match day threads lately have just turned into a venting ground surrounding Rafa, Ashley, Joselu etc., so I thought it would be good to have a nice accessible thread where we can all be miserable.

Simple really. 6 defeats out of 7. 1 point in 21. No wins since October. 2 points outside of the relegation zone. Rafa's messiah like status wobbling with each passing week. Joselu still starting.

Who's to blame?

[ALF]

It is all 3 definitely. We could have invested more without a doubt, but our squad is large and has been managed poorly. It's the same core group underperforming each week and they have to shoulder some responsibility but it is Rafa refusing to change things as well. We play bad football, our top scorers are on 3 each, we're shipping goals now and hearing the same excuses every week.

[Chappy]

Combination of all three.

The players we have are s***. They work hard they're just not good enough, simple as.

Rafa's team selections have been suspect to say the least, constant selection of under performing players beggars belief.

Ashley because of the lack of investment. He's spent money, but he could spend a lot more. He'd rather gamble with the club's future than spend what he sees as too much.

Praying for this takeover to happen, but I'm not hopeful it'll get sorted at all, let alone in time for Staveley to invest in the January window.

Relegation fight looking more likely with each passing game, and I'm not sure Rafa is prepared to put up with Ashley much longer. He's already broken promises he's made - no money in January and he'll be off. Hope I'm wrong - but that's how it looks like it's going to go.

[biggeordiedave]

Definitely a combination of all three. Rafa is picking weird teams and not playing to our strengths. The players need to buck their ideas up. We went from having one of the best defences in the league to giving away really poor goals every week. They look like the classic terrified Newcastle side at the moment who cave under the slightest bit of pressure. Finally, Ashley needs to just cut his losses and sell the club. It could very well end up being a case of "be careful what you wish for", but having this hanging over the club is not helping at all.

[Hjl]

I dont know what your worried about, im always told that consistency is the key to winning the league. We are nothing if not consistent. How many games have we let 3 in now?

[Double Agent Bruce a.k.a DAB]

Players, Rafa, ashley - in that order. We played so good against Man Utd and Chelsea at first... but few stupid errors and we know what happened. The same is for Leicester game. And this are a huge errors. A lot of goals after cross at the far post. A penalty. Misleaded pass at the centre. And all of our big mistakes was punished. With those players we should be few places above and easily can have 5-6 points more. If that was the case, this topic wouldn't happen. Apparently Lascelles presents are huge and without him we can't cope defensivly.

Rafa's tactic against Chelsea worked... that 3-5-2... until Ritchie didn't decide to give the ball to Moses and then to give the penalty away. He show he is flexible about that part. But his subs are odd and too late. There's some really dubious favourite players...

For ashley anything is said about the last decade. So he can f*** off. And do it quick. Otherwise both parties will lose a lot. But his lost will be bigger. Nobody would give anywhere near to 300 mill for a club in Championship with 130 million debt.

[Sheesh]

Rafa for me. Needs to pick the right team and instill confidence in the players. Its not happening at the moment, and its in predicaments like this where a manager needs to earn his wage.

[Mbemba You're a Womble]

The manager has to be culpable for the man-management and instilling a right attitude in the dressing room, but there has to be a correct mentality from above at board room level for this to happen.

The board aren't investing in the club to move forward. Rafa trying his best to work with what he's given, but all the while lobbying for the investement other clubs he's expected to compete against receive. This will seep into the attitude of the dressing room, and therefore effect the performance on the pitch.

As a club we're now throwing s*** at a wall week in week out with the players we are fielding on the pitch. We are all hoping some of it sticks, and we can play well and win. But at the end of the day, we are still throwing s***. Until the people in charge at the top stop giving managers s***, we can't expect to achieve anything.

Investment and money spent on a squad directly correlates to PL standings. There is a spectrum, and there is a reason why Manchester clubs will finish top of the league, and there is a reason why certain clubs will finish at the bottom. Over the course of a season this will even itself out to a strong degree.

[TJR]

Overall Ashley (Charnley/Bishop/Barnes).

The squad isn't good enough. Rafa pointed that out countless times in the summer and made his displeasure with our transfer activity well known. Rafa hasn't been backed, our net spend since he joined is minus 18m. That's just not good enough.

SpoilerShow

[tweet][/tweet]

Some of Rafas decisions have been poor but on the whole he's doing a good job. Mitro is better than Joselu but even if he was to start Mitro and drop Joselu, the team is still on the whole a Championship team. There isn't an awful lot he could do differently. Mitro and recently Shelvey aside he's pretty much picked our best available team most weeks. There is a case for Mbemba as well but he's often as dodgy as Lejeune anyway.

Finishing 17th this season would be a magnificent achievement and to be where we are now is testament to the good job Rafa is doing. He said before the season that this would be the case unless the club bucked up their ideas in the transfer market and he's been proven correct so far.

The players also aren't to blame. You can't fault their effort and application. It's just that simply the majority of them aren't good enough / experienced enough for the Premier League. That's not their fault. They're a Championship squad of players. In terms of talent, by far the worst squad we've had in the Premier League era. Which is why significant investment in the transfer market was needed this summer. Rafa knew this and repeatedly said so in the summer. The boards failure to act then has put us in this position.

[Don Sholeone]

Players are making individual mistakes not always down to quality, majority is down to lack of concentration, Rafa is making tactical and selection mistakes and being too stubborn to see certain players and styles are just not effective, and Ashley hasn't invested nearly enough not just this window but every season barring the relegation one.

[Mbemba You're a Womble]

The problems I foresee coming is when we do get into that relegation zone, and when we are in the 'battle'.

I don't really see too many players that have the character and fortitude to pull us out of it. They all seem to be good time players, the typical players that allow themselves to drift in and out of games - those that are usually carried in squads by stronger characters. Lascelles seems to have that about him, but then where are we looking?

Shelvey last relegation season had his moments, seemed to revel in the 'saviour role' that was given to him, but was a liability at times. How's his attitude going to be after another few months of being in and out of the side. Had questionable attitude at Liverpool and Swansea.

Guys like Manquillo and Joselu are in the team most weeks, most know that Rafa drafted them in as nobody else was available. They will know their not around for the long term, especially with Rafa publicly crying for investment.

[Bruuuuuuuuce ()]

Who spent a total of 28M on Sels, Hanley, Diame, Lazaar, Manquillo and Joselu?

Our squad is crap but who built it? Graham Carr isn't about anymore..

[bodacious benny]

Who spent a total of 28M on Sels, Hanley, Diame, Lazaar, Manquillo and Joselu?

Our squad is crap but who built it? Graham Carr isn't about anymore..

Yeah, all we needed last season was a backup keeper until Elliot was fit, we should have signed either Clark OR Hanley for the Championship, no idea why we signed Lazaar or Manquillo, maybe Joselu was just desperation.

Despite him being s*** I can see why we signed Diame, but still, some awful awful transfers there.

I still think that Rafa is the man to keep us up tho, if he goes then Pulis will probably be favorite...

Hopefully given decent money he can get the quality we need (but he's definitely been responsible for signing some utter dross). Manquillo is probably on babayaro levels of shitness.

[Lidl]

Overall Ashley (Charnley/Bishop/Barnes).

The squad isn't good enough. Rafa pointed that out countless times in the summer and made his displeasure with our transfer activity well known. Rafa hasn't been backed, our net spend since he joined is minus 18m. That's just not good enough.

SpoilerShow

[tweet][/tweet]

Some of Rafas decisions have been poor but on the whole he's doing a good job. Mitro is better than Joselu but even if he was to start Mitro and drop Joselu, the team is still on the whole a Championship team. There isn't an awful lot he could do differently. Mitro and recently Shelvey aside he's pretty much picked our best available team most weeks. There is a case for Mbemba as well but he's often as dodgy as Lejeune anyway.

Finishing 17th this season would be a magnificent achievement and to be where we are now is testament to the good job Rafa is doing. He said before the season that this would be the case unless the club bucked up their ideas in the transfer market and he's been proven correct so far.

The players also aren't to blame. You can't fault their effort and application. It's just that simply the majority of them aren't good enough / experienced enough for the Premier League. That's not their fault. They're a Championship squad of players. In terms of talent, by far the worst squad we've had in the Premier League era. Which is why significant investment in the transfer market was needed this summer. Rafa knew this and repeatedly said so in the summer. The boards failure to act then has put us in this position.

The thing is, yeah maybe the players aren't that good, but it's hardly a great confidence booster for them to hear that being said in every post game interview by the man who's supposed to be inspiring them to play out of their skin for the club. Sure we haven't had sufficient investment but it's just plain petulant and counter-productive of Rafa to keep saying stuff like that. Obviously yeah there's only so much he can do but I think that the main slump we've had recently has coincided with a lot more of these negative comments where he basically calls the players out as being s****. Imagine your boss sending the equivalent of an all staff email saying that nobody was really up to their jobs; it's not exactly going to make you try harder.

It's definitely a mixture of all three but I think Rafa gets a bit of a pass from people for who he is. He's got probably the worst squad in the league, but the way he's handled that recently has been poor, especially for somebody who is hailed as a great man manager.

I don't know the whole story, things could be different behind closed doors, but it just seems like something you don't want to be saying in a public arena if you're trying to encourage players.

Plus, as others have said, money that has been given to him could have been invested far better, especially in our Championship season.

[Mbemba You're a Womble]

Merino, Manquillo and Joselu stink to me of some sort of agent involvement. Likely with Gamez as well. Joselu and Manquillo are nowhere near good enough for the Premier League, but still, in Manquillo's case being touted round the league picking up contracts/bonuses (Liverpool, Sunderland, now us) instead of going back to Spain and finding a team there.

Nobody in their right mind should have been looking at Joselu and thinking he should have been signed. Might have only been £5M, but that's just wasteful. Rafa's probably allowed himself to do a bit of business with somebody he 'trusts', and brought these clowns in because he couldn't get anything better and needed bodies.

[bodacious benny]

I'd forgotten about Gamez

In terms of worst squad in the league I'd argue that Swansea's is worse than ours.

[Heisen]

I'd forgotten about Gamez

In terms of worst squad in the league I'd argue that Swansea's is worse than ours.

Brighton aswell, probably. Only just though.

Currently I don't think any of our starting XI minus Lascelles + Ritchie would start for anyone else in the league. Worst squad we've ever had.

[Heisen]

Overall Ashley (Charnley/Bishop/Barnes).

The squad isn't good enough. Rafa pointed that out countless times in the summer and made his displeasure with our transfer activity well known. Rafa hasn't been backed, our net spend since he joined is minus 18m. That's just not good enough.

SpoilerShow

[tweet][/tweet]

Some of Rafas decisions have been poor but on the whole he's doing a good job. Mitro is better than Joselu but even if he was to start Mitro and drop Joselu, the team is still on the whole a Championship team. There isn't an awful lot he could do differently. Mitro and recently Shelvey aside he's pretty much picked our best available team most weeks. There is a case for Mbemba as well but he's often as dodgy as Lejeune anyway.

Finishing 17th this season would be a magnificent achievement and to be where we are now is testament to the good job Rafa is doing. He said before the season that this would be the case unless the club bucked up their ideas in the transfer market and he's been proven correct so far.

The players also aren't to blame. You can't fault their effort and application. It's just that simply the majority of them aren't good enough / experienced enough for the Premier League. That's not their fault. They're a Championship squad of players. In terms of talent, by far the worst squad we've had in the Premier League era. Which is why significant investment in the transfer market was needed this summer. Rafa knew this and repeatedly said so in the summer. The boards failure to act then has put us in this position.

The thing is, yeah maybe the players aren't that good, but it's hardly a great confidence booster for them to hear that being said in every post game interview by the man who's supposed to be inspiring them to play out of their skin for the club. Sure we haven't had sufficient investment but it's just plain petulant and counter-productive of Rafa to keep saying stuff like that. Obviously yeah there's only so much he can do but I think that the main slump we've had recently has coincided with a lot more of these negative comments where he basically calls the players out as being s****. Imagine your boss sending the equivalent of an all staff email saying that nobody was really up to their jobs; it's not exactly going to make you try harder.

It's definitely a mixture of all three but I think Rafa gets a bit of a pass from people for who he is. He's got probably the worst squad in the league, but the way he's handled that recently has been poor, especially for somebody who is hailed as a great man manager.

I don't know the whole story, things could be different behind closed doors, but it just seems like something you don't want to be saying in a public arena if you're trying to encourage players.

Plus, as others have said, money that has been given to him could have been invested far better, especially in our Championship season.

Really? Everything I've ever read about Benitez has suggested his man management is one of the weakest aspects of his management style. Great tactician but very easily alienates players - even Gerrard said that tactically Rafa was the best he played under but they didn't get on and it was under Rafa that he seriously considered leaving Liverpool.

[Mbemba You're a Womble]

Pretty identical really - similar bunch of players that aren't really cut for Premier League (Naughton, Carroll) along with the guys who's agent is better than they are at their job. Think we dodged a bullet with Abraham in terms of the fee Swansea are probably paying.

[Ol' Dirty Bas Dost]

Rafa is culpable for mishandling the current situation, but the ownership/Charnley etc. are to blame ultimately for not being prepared to back Rafa on his first choice targets in the summer. He ended up having to exploit connections in Spain to fill the squad up, and ended up with a couple of glaring duds in Manquillo and Joselu. To his credit, he stayed in the job, and hopefully this January the sale goes through and he can make some signings to revive the season with a fresh injection of transfer funds from the new owners. If he feels like the club sale is stalling, I think he will walk and we'll go down if that happens.