Wilshere (and Shelvey) Left Out of England Squad

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Re: Wilshere (and Shelvey) Left Out of England Squad

Post by biggeordiedave » Wed May 16, 2018 1:43 pm

Heisen wrote:Cahill <laugh> he has been absolutely atrocious this season. And Welbeck. Welbeck's inclusion simply cannot be justified at all.

It's an entirely English phenomenon aswell, the Germans aren't taking the likes of Can, Gotze etc., because they haven't been in form or injured. But every single English manager of the last 20 years feels it's acceptable to take out of form/injured players to major tournaments. Same old s***, different tournament. Not a single ball playing central midfielder, what a joke.
Southgate's plan is clearly go ultra-defensive and try and nick a goal on the break. We are going to be playing for 1-0 against Tunisia and Panama. I wouldn't be surprised if he goes 5-3-1-1 or something.
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Re: Wilshere (and Shelvey) Left Out of England Squad

Post by lassassinblanc » Wed May 16, 2018 1:43 pm

overseasTOON wrote:To be fair, that's still quite a strong squad.
Really??

I'd say Kane would be the only player to get into any of the main contenders starting XI's
I'll Hazard a guess

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Re: Wilshere (and Shelvey) Left Out of England Squad

Post by lassassinblanc » Wed May 16, 2018 1:44 pm

England play a 3-4-2-1 type formation right?

most likely starting 11 would be

-----Pickford------
Stones-Maguire-Jones
Walker Henderson-Dier-Rose
----Sterling---Alli---
---------Kane----------

Even though I think Walker might play as part of that back 3 with Trippier as the right wingback.

The decision to bring Danny Rose is shocking hasn't played much this season at all, but I suppose what other options does he have?

Cresswell?
Betrand?
I would have had either one ahead of Rose
I'll Hazard a guess

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Re: Wilshere (and Shelvey) Left Out of England Squad

Post by Heisen » Wed May 16, 2018 1:51 pm

biggeordiedave wrote:
Heisen wrote:Cahill <laugh> he has been absolutely atrocious this season. And Welbeck. Welbeck's inclusion simply cannot be justified at all.

It's an entirely English phenomenon aswell, the Germans aren't taking the likes of Can, Gotze etc., because they haven't been in form or injured. But every single English manager of the last 20 years feels it's acceptable to take out of form/injured players to major tournaments. Same old s***, different tournament. Not a single ball playing central midfielder, what a joke.
Southgate's plan is clearly go ultra-defensive and try and nick a goal on the break. We are going to be playing for 1-0 against Tunisia and Panama. I wouldn't be surprised if he goes 5-3-1-1 or something.
He will. To give him a slice of credit, the squad is young, but this will all be negated by the horribly negative football he'll set them up to play. He's got 6 full backs going FFS.
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Re: Wilshere (and Shelvey) Left Out of England Squad

Post by lassassinblanc » Wed May 16, 2018 1:56 pm

Heisen wrote:
biggeordiedave wrote:
Southgate's plan is clearly go ultra-defensive and try and nick a goal on the break. We are going to be playing for 1-0 against Tunisia and Panama. I wouldn't be surprised if he goes 5-3-1-1 or something.
He will. To give him a slice of credit, the squad is young, but this will all be negated by the horribly negative football he'll set them up to play. He's got 6 full backs going FFS.
and 3 centre mids (I suppose 4 if you say Delph is CM)
I'll Hazard a guess

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Re: Wilshere (and Shelvey) Left Out of England Squad

Post by Footyfan » Wed May 16, 2018 2:29 pm

Heisen , well said , totally agree !

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Re: Wilshere (and Shelvey) Left Out of England Squad

Post by TJR » Wed May 16, 2018 2:57 pm

Lassassinblanc wrote:England play a 3-4-2-1 type formation right?

most likely starting 11 would be

-----Pickford------
Stones-Maguire-Jones
Walker Henderson-Dier-Rose
----Sterling---Alli---
---------Kane----------

Even though I think Walker might play as part of that back 3 with Trippier as the right wingback.

The decision to bring Danny Rose is shocking hasn't played much this season at all, but I suppose what other options does he have?

Cresswell?
Betrand?
I would have had either one ahead of Rose
Young should start LWB. He's been one of the best LBs in the squad this season.

Lascelles should be there instead of Cahill. Statistically (according to OPTA) he's been the best English CB in the Premier League this season across all metric measured.

Shelvey should also be in the squad. Livermore is s**** and Shelvey has better vision and a better passing range than any other English midfielder.

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Re: Wilshere (and Shelvey) Left Out of England Squad

Post by Blue & Maroon » Wed May 16, 2018 3:07 pm

Lascelles and Shelvey should be going but it isn't a bad squad.

GK: Pickford
CB: Stones
CB: Jones
CB: Maguire
RWB: Walker
LWB: Young
CM: Alli
CM: Henderson
CM: Dier
ST: Kane
ST: Vardy

Maybe we will play a 4-4-2 against Tunisia and Panama, drop a CB and play sterling on the wing, drop Dier and play Lingard on the other. We'll see.

We won't win the World Cup but it's a decent side, they are all talented players, hopefully Southgate can get them working as a team. If we push a decent side all the way in the QFs then I'll be happy.

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Re: Wilshere (and Shelvey) Left Out of England Squad

Post by seatonsluicetoon » Wed May 16, 2018 3:26 pm

Forgetting the fact that Shelvey and Lascelles both deserve a spot, I’m surprised not to see Milner given the season he’s had. Milner over Delph I’d have thought.
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Re: Wilshere (and Shelvey) Left Out of England Squad

Post by Toondes » Wed May 16, 2018 3:33 pm

Has Henderson or Alli been in better form Shelvey ?
Debatable if you ask me . Yes that play for arguably better/bigger clubs but it’s extremely harsh on shelvey not to make it. Another tournament , another bottling England manager .
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Re: Wilshere (and Shelvey) Left Out of England Squad

Post by Colly » Wed May 16, 2018 3:56 pm

seatonsluicetoon wrote:Forgetting the fact that Shelvey and Lascelles both deserve a spot, I’m surprised not to see Milner given the season he’s had. Milner over Delph I’d have thought.
Internationally retired. That said if I was manager I'd be having a word.

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Re: Wilshere (and Shelvey) Left Out of England Squad

Post by Colly » Wed May 16, 2018 3:57 pm

Toondes wrote:Has Henderson or Alli been in better form Shelvey ?
Debatable if you ask me . Yes that play for arguably better/bigger clubs but it’s extremely harsh on shelvey not to make it. Another tournament , another bottling England manager .
If I'm taking Shelvey it's certainly not over either of those two.

Also, "arguably" <laugh>. The team that just won the league breaking records for wins, goals and points, and the team in the Champions League final.

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Re: Wilshere (and Shelvey) Left Out of England Squad

Post by The Deluded Pablo Diego Jose Francisco » Wed May 16, 2018 4:13 pm

Colly wrote:
seatonsluicetoon wrote:Forgetting the fact that Shelvey and Lascelles both deserve a spot, I’m surprised not to see Milner given the season he’s had. Milner over Delph I’d have thought.
Internationally retired. That said if I was manager I'd be having a word.
I've lost count of how many times people still don't know that Milner has retired and doesn't want to come out of retirement. <disgrace>

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Re: Wilshere (and Shelvey) Left Out of England Squad

Post by Blue & Maroon » Wed May 16, 2018 4:15 pm

Colly wrote:
Toondes wrote:Has Henderson or Alli been in better form Shelvey ?
Debatable if you ask me . Yes that play for arguably better/bigger clubs but it’s extremely harsh on shelvey not to make it. Another tournament , another bottling England manager .
If I'm taking Shelvey it's certainly not over either of those two.

Also, "arguably" <laugh>. The team that just won the league breaking records for wins, goals and points, and the team in the Champions League final.
Alli has been in and out of form but he can boss some of the best midfields in Europe on his day and Henderson has been quality for years now. Pretty much what Colly has said, how can you leave mainstays from two of the best teams in the country out? You can't even if you are bias towards Shelvey like we are.

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Re: Wilshere (and Shelvey) Left Out of England Squad

Post by Blue & Maroon » Wed May 16, 2018 4:16 pm

In fact building on that point Alli has 9 goals in the PL this year and it's not been his best. Lad is top class.

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Re: Wilshere (and Shelvey) Left Out of England Squad

Post by Tsi » Wed May 16, 2018 4:21 pm

With Joe, we’ve got three other goalkeepers who have had very good seasons and the decision I was faced with was do I keep Joe in and have experience around the group? Or give the three guys who have basically had a better season a chance?
It's a shame he didn't use that philosophy with the some of the others he's picked.

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Re: Wilshere (and Shelvey) Left Out of England Squad

Post by Chappy » Wed May 16, 2018 4:30 pm

Cahill <laugh> Welbeck <laugh>
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Re: Wilshere (and Shelvey) Left Out of England Squad

Post by Blue & Maroon » Wed May 16, 2018 4:34 pm

Chappy wrote:Cahill <laugh> Welbeck <laugh>

Should have had Murray and Jamal in there instead <urgh>

Doubt (pray) Welbeck will play tbh.

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Re: Wilshere (and Shelvey) Left Out of England Squad

Post by Robbotoon » Wed May 16, 2018 4:36 pm

We al, knew this was going to happen ffs

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Re: Wilshere (and Shelvey) Left Out of England Squad

Post by Heisen » Wed May 16, 2018 4:43 pm

I predict a thoroughly depressing last 16 exit, where the inquests will open and everyone will be wondering what we do differently going forward. Southgate will be sacked and Steve Bruce will be appointed. Then we'll thrash Moldova 4-0 in September and it'll all start again.

Welcome to the England boom bust cycle.
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