England squad for October

[Valentino's fast feet]

England 25-man squad in full
Goalkeepers

Marcus Bettinelli (Fulham), Jack Butland (Stoke City), Alex McCarthy (Southampton), Jordan Pickford (Everton)

Defenders

Trent Alexander-Arnold (Liverpool), Joe Gomez (Liverpool), Harry Maguire (Leicester City), Danny Rose (Tottenham Hotspur), Luke Shaw (Manchester United), John Stones (Manchester City), James Tarkowski (Burnley), Kieran Trippier (Tottenham Hotspur), Kyle Walker (Manchester City)

Midfielders

Ross Barkley (Chelsea), Nathaniel Chalobah (Watford), Eric Dier (Tottenham Hotspur), Jordan Henderson (Liverpool), Mason Mount (on loan at Derby County from Chelsea), Harry Winks (Tottenham Hotspur)

Strikers

Harry Kane (Tottenham Hotspur), James Maddison (Leicester City), Marcus Rashford, (Manchester United), Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund), Raheem Sterling (Manchester City), Danny Welbeck (Arsenal)

Four keepers again seems really odd. Joe Hart been doing well I think for Burnley, but not getting a look in. Fair few new names in there which is good to see. Maddisson always getting a call up, and good to see Sancho involved with him doing well overseas. Was surprised at the Mason Mount call up with him in the second division. Apparently pulling up trees tho.

[bodacious benny]

That midfield is pretty s***

Not sure what right Welbeck has to be in there, shows that who you are matters more than how you play sometimes.

Maddison definitely deserves his place, I don't know much about Sancho other than there seems to be a fair bit of hype and he's impressed at Dortmund. Agree about Hart, on form he deserves a place.

[lassassinblanc]

What's the opinion of Declan Rice on here from England fans?

[TJR]

What's the opinion of Declan Rice on here from England fans?

Very average. Probably will never play.

[overseasTOON]

Scotland take on the mighty Israel tonight in this Nations League malarkey.

I've read it's a must win game for Scotland to qualify for a tournament but quite how that happens is beyond me.

[lassassinblanc]

Scotland take on the mighty Israel tonight in this Nations League malarkey.

I've read it's a must win game for Scotland to qualify for a tournament but quite how that happens is beyond me.

If they finish top of their group they will be one of league C playoff teams

[bodacious benny]

Scotland take on the mighty Israel tonight in this Nations League malarkey.

I've read it's a must win game for Scotland to qualify for a tournament but quite how that happens is beyond me.

If they finish top of their group they will be one of league C playoff teams

A playoff which they'd lose presumably.

[lassassinblanc]

If they finish top of their group they will be one of league C playoff teams

A playoff which they'd lose presumably.

Of course

[Valentino's fast feet]

A playoff which they'd lose presumably.

Of course

They'd need to get to the playoff to lose it, which might be a stretch. In seriousness I like the idea of that, the extra incentive with the nations league for that qualifying space. Gives the s**** like the scots a chance to try and pretend they can compete.

[lassassinblanc]

Of course

They'd need to get to the playoff to lose it, which might be a stretch. In seriousness I like the idea of that, the extra incentive with the nations league for that qualifying space. Gives the s**** like the scots a chance to try and pretend they can compete.

I think that it's the biggest flaw of all the British teams they actually believe they are better then they are.

England- Are all high and mighty thinking they're brilliant after getting to WC Semi final after only beating perhaps one semi decent team in Sweden (Who I still believe if had a striker who could actually score would have won). Still think 1966 was yesterday

Wales- Living off their Euro 2016 semi final place- Only making it there due to again playing fairly weak teams and a Belgian team handicapped by Marc Wilmots idiocy. Yes they have a game changer in Bale but that is it. Ramsey isn't the great player he is made out to be( evidence for this that Arsenal have pulled the plug on contracts talks as they refuse to pay him more than 80k a week)

Scotland- Have a player who is in a team who do well in Europe and they think they are brilliant- they are not- evidence from last night enough

Northern Ireland- Done well in two relatively easy groups the last few years against teams going through transitional periods (i.e. Czech Rep, Norway in WC ).

I will admit that we are guilty of the same in the Republic, when in truth we have been a poor team who once teams figure out are very predictable and easy enough to counter out our strengths and style.

[overseasTOON]

I haven't met a Scot yet who thinks Scotland has a brilliant football team. In fact; we know we're very mediocre and our only real chance of qualifying for anything is by hosting the tournament.

[Colly]

I'm not really sure what your point is, none of those teams particularly have fan bases who think their team is amazing anymore, and as you've said both England and Wales have shown its more than possible to have a decent run in a tournament. How can fairly muted positivity be the "biggest flaw of the British teams".

[bodacious benny]

Scotland, Wales, NI (and we can hoy the ROI in there too) fans and pundits more or less all know/agree that the teams are very average. Most have two or three decent players, but there are a lot of players in all of those teams who aren't international standard, with the lack of decent striking options a problem for all. There is some good young talent around, but whether they progress as far as is hoped remains to be seen.

I've always been of the opinion that England didn't really do that well in summer, all things considered. The football was still s***, they struggled to beat average teams, and they lost every one of their tough game (Belgium x 2, Croatia) and have since lost to Spain. I think the FA are bonkers giving Southgate a new 4 year big money contract, footballing wise he's changed England very little.

[krully]

We'd be much better if we didn't have two absolutely s**** cuunts managing us tbh

[Valentino's fast feet]

They'd need to get to the playoff to lose it, which might be a stretch. In seriousness I like the idea of that, the extra incentive with the nations league for that qualifying space. Gives the s**** like the scots a chance to try and pretend they can compete.

I think that it's the biggest flaw of all the British teams they actually believe they are better then they are.

England- Are all high and mighty thinking they're brilliant after getting to WC Semi final after only beating perhaps one semi decent team in Sweden (Who I still believe if had a striker who could actually score would have won). Still think 1966 was yesterday

Wales- Living off their Euro 2016 semi final place- Only making it there due to again playing fairly weak teams and a Belgian team handicapped by Marc Wilmots idiocy. Yes they have a game changer in Bale but that is it. Ramsey isn't the great player he is made out to be( evidence for this that Arsenal have pulled the plug on contracts talks as they refuse to pay him more than 80k a week)

Scotland- Have a player who is in a team who do well in Europe and they think they are brilliant- they are not- evidence from last night enough

Northern Ireland- Done well in two relatively easy groups the last few years against teams going through transitional periods (i.e. Czech Rep, Norway in WC ).

I will admit that we are guilty of the same in the Republic, when in truth we have been a poor team who once teams figure out are very predictable and easy enough to counter out our strengths and style.

Thorgan Hazard

[lassassinblanc]

you're never going to forget that are you

[Remember Colo]

They'd need to get to the playoff to lose it, which might be a stretch. In seriousness I like the idea of that, the extra incentive with the nations league for that qualifying space. Gives the s**** like the scots a chance to try and pretend they can compete.

I think that it's the biggest flaw of all the British teams they actually believe they are better then they are.

England- Are all high and mighty thinking they're brilliant after getting to WC Semi final after only beating perhaps one semi decent team in Sweden (Who I still believe if had a striker who could actually score would have won). Still think 1966 was yesterday

Wales- Living off their Euro 2016 semi final place- Only making it there due to again playing fairly weak teams and a Belgian team handicapped by Marc Wilmots idiocy. Yes they have a game changer in Bale but that is it. Ramsey isn't the great player he is made out to be( evidence for this that Arsenal have pulled the plug on contracts talks as they refuse to pay him more than 80k a week)

Scotland- Have a player who is in a team who do well in Europe and they think they are brilliant- they are not- evidence from last night enough

Northern Ireland- Done well in two relatively easy groups the last few years against teams going through transitional periods (i.e. Czech Rep, Norway in WC ).

I will admit that we are guilty of the same in the Republic, when in truth we have been a poor team who once teams figure out are very predictable and easy enough to counter out our strengths and style.

Can say that for most any team, particularly in international football - so it seems an odd point?

In international football where you only need a short run of good form to make a run in a tournament, you may as well be hopeful, because it's easier to do that than to be a fan of a mediocre club that needs to sustain performance for 38 matches. Or at least it's less miserable to once and a while hope that maybe, just maybe your country will spring a surprise.

[lassassinblanc]

In fairness Berg was woeful less said about Toivenen the better

[Blue & Maroon]

Engerrrland

[Colly]

Engerrrland

High and mighty prick.