Match day thread - NUFC v Manure

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Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Manure

Post by lassassinblanc » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:04 pm

Luque wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:15 pm
Nathan Redmond for a start. £11m.
he moved from to a PL Club to stay in the Premier League
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Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Manure

Post by lassassinblanc » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:07 pm

CIH wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:31 pm
Luque wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:15 pm
Nathan Redmond for a start. £11m.
<notbad>

Fair point, but with that one I'm not sure he would've come here. He left a relegated Norwich to go to premier league Southampton. Why would he have swapped one second tier club for another? I realise the strong argument there is money talks, same with Ritchie dropping down from Bournemouth. Key difference there for me is that we were in a good position to come right back up (which we did), Norwich not so much and Bournemouth with a good chance of going down at the time. Southampton were on the up and up at the time, solid mid table side with ambitions for further. On the face of it a much better proposition than us, in my opinion.
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Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Manure

Post by lassassinblanc » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:09 pm

Luque wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:02 pm
Get the feeling Rafa could have signed Dario Silva and somehow he'd be defended by some.
The way you're going on though you'd think Rafa had 100m to spend on a striker and came back with Joselu and said here Mike I don't need this other 95m.

He was given 5m that is all he had
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Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Manure

Post by CIH » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:41 pm

Luque wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:02 pm
Get the feeling Rafa could have signed Dario Silva and somehow he'd be defended by some.
And in the same way you are entitled to have an opinion against Rafa and his signings, we are entitled to believe something different. Facts can be used to back up opinions, but it's still just that - from all of us. Rafa is far from perfect, and his transfer activity has been far from stellar. It has to be taken into account that the ownership model hamstrings him in the transfer market, and same as everyone else some signings just don't work out. Of course he's made errors and not everything is brilliant, Mitrovic would again be my key example for that.

If it comes down to the basic thing that seemingly spltis a lot of us lately, replacing Rafa, then who comes in? His tactics may be frustratingly negative, and I fully agree with the annoyance when it comes to defending deep against the likes of Fulham. Last night I thought we played quite well, but the quality of the opposition shone through. Any manager to replace Rafa would have the same set of players to deal with, and the same restrictions as per transfer incomings. Who would you bring in that would significantly improve the team? I know AVB has been mentioned by some, and while he's been highly rated in the past and might well know his onions, not sure his the right answer. And considering he's been managing in Russia and China, not sure we'd be able to afford him.

It will probably all become moot when he likely leaves at the end of the season, but for the time being I would rather back Benitez than replace Rafa.

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Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Manure

Post by lassassinblanc » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:50 pm

CIH wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:41 pm
Luque wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:02 pm
Get the feeling Rafa could have signed Dario Silva and somehow he'd be defended by some.
And in the same way you are entitled to have an opinion against Rafa and his signings, we are entitled to believe something different. Facts can be used to back up opinions, but it's still just that - from all of us. Rafa is far from perfect, and his transfer activity has been far from stellar. It has to be taken into account that the ownership model hamstrings him in the transfer market, and same as everyone else some signings just don't work out. Of course he's made errors and not everything is brilliant, Mitrovic would again be my key example for that.

If it comes down to the basic thing that seemingly spltis a lot of us lately, replacing Rafa, then who comes in? His tactics may be frustratingly negative, and I fully agree with the annoyance when it comes to defending deep against the likes of Fulham. Last night I thought we played quite well, but the quality of the opposition shone through. Any manager to replace Rafa would have the same set of players to deal with, and the same restrictions as per transfer incomings. Who would you bring in that would significantly improve the team? I know AVB has been mentioned by some, and while he's been highly rated in the past and might well know his onions, not sure his the right answer. And considering he's been managing in Russia and China, not sure we'd be able to afford him.

It will probably all become moot when he likely leaves at the end of the season, but for the time being I would rather back Benitez than replace Rafa.
<pards>

I joke but I wouldn't be surprised if Rafa left in the summer and Pardew came back
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Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Manure

Post by Bodacious Benny » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:55 pm

Pardew has such a big ego that he probably would come back if offered the chance...
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Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Manure

Post by CIH » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:02 pm

Big Sam would be in the conversation no doubt. Rodgers would be my pick if he became available, although that might also be a bit overly ambitious. If they don't come up, Chris Wilder is doing a great job at Sheff United, might be worth a punt.

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Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Manure

Post by Bodacious Benny » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:13 pm

I wouldn't want Rodgers as he comes across as a smug prick.
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Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Manure

Post by Remember Colo » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:13 pm

vrabbit wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:50 pm
Muto definitely fell out of the picture due to injury (but it's been too long since he's been available and he hasn't gotten another chance to crack the XI), I still don't get Atsu being the target of the frustrations when he's offered more than others in this game.
My hypothesis is that a player will get more stick if they create some opportunities and get into some good positions and spurn them, than if they simply are anonymous and don't even create opportunities to disappoint/frustrate people. We've carried a lot of players in the latter category for years now.

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Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Manure

Post by Luque » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:13 pm

lassassinblanc wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:09 pm
Luque wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:02 pm
Get the feeling Rafa could have signed Dario Silva and somehow he'd be defended by some.
The way you're going on though you'd think Rafa had 100m to spend on a striker and came back with Joselu and said here Mike I don't need this other 95m.

He was given 5m that is all he had
Or maybe don't buy Joselu... use Mitrovic and save the £5m for another deal.

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Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Manure

Post by Remember Colo » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:17 pm

lassassinblanc wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:09 pm
Luque wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:02 pm
Get the feeling Rafa could have signed Dario Silva and somehow he'd be defended by some.
The way you're going on though you'd think Rafa had 100m to spend on a striker and came back with Joselu and said here Mike I don't need this other 95m.

He was given 5m that is all he had
I agree the truth is somehwere in the middle of the two arguments, though to your specific point, when you see the club aren't going to spend money, and you're left signing crap like Joselu, then maybe you should do more to try and use your existing players that are more highly valued. Not that I'm trying to go back down the Mitrovic debate hole, but I'll continue to question his choice of Joselu over Mitrovic, especially now that Rondon has demonstrated a player of their style can produce "in Rafa's system".

Edit: sorry for repeating Luque, I was typing my reply up as he was posting his.

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Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Manure

Post by Remember Colo » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:19 pm

CIH wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:41 pm
Luque wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:02 pm
Get the feeling Rafa could have signed Dario Silva and somehow he'd be defended by some.
And in the same way you are entitled to have an opinion against Rafa and his signings, we are entitled to believe something different. Facts can be used to back up opinions, but it's still just that - from all of us. Rafa is far from perfect, and his transfer activity has been far from stellar. It has to be taken into account that the ownership model hamstrings him in the transfer market, and same as everyone else some signings just don't work out. Of course he's made errors and not everything is brilliant, Mitrovic would again be my key example for that.

If it comes down to the basic thing that seemingly spltis a lot of us lately, replacing Rafa, then who comes in? His tactics may be frustratingly negative, and I fully agree with the annoyance when it comes to defending deep against the likes of Fulham. Last night I thought we played quite well, but the quality of the opposition shone through. Any manager to replace Rafa would have the same set of players to deal with, and the same restrictions as per transfer incomings. Who would you bring in that would significantly improve the team? I know AVB has been mentioned by some, and while he's been highly rated in the past and might well know his onions, not sure his the right answer. And considering he's been managing in Russia and China, not sure we'd be able to afford him.

It will probably all become moot when he likely leaves at the end of the season, but for the time being I would rather back Benitez than replace Rafa.
Despite some of my criticisms, I don't want to come off as thinking we'd be better off sacking Rafa. He definitely offers more benefits than disadvantages, I've just always thought he isn't without some criticisms - but it always seems hard to stay in the grey when debating online.

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Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Manure

Post by Sir Bobby » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:21 pm

Luque wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:37 pm
Leon Best got 10 in 29 goals in Premier League for Newcastle.
Joselu has 6 in 40. To compare the 2 is actually scandalous.
The irony of you claiming that Rafa could do anything and be defended by some whilst saying my comparison of two s*** footballers is scandalous, whilst totally ignoring my entire point to focus in on your one perceived discrepancy about Rafa and Hughton being similar in their signing abilities, is brilliant. You’re a blind man shouting about how you can see that the other man is blinder.

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Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Manure

Post by Bodacious Benny » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:23 pm

Tbh at the time we may as well have tried to give Armstrong a chance rather than spend £5m on Joselu (who is also on about £50k a week isn't he?). I've always said that I don't think Armstrong will ever be a PL striker (as Joselu isn't) but I'm sure he could have matched or bettered the 6 in 44 games that Joselu has for us. I'm pro-Rafa, but I agree some of the transfers for the sake of transfers are pointless and it would have been better to put the money towards a slightly better player...
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Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Manure

Post by lassassinblanc » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:25 pm

Remember Colo wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:17 pm
lassassinblanc wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:09 pm


The way you're going on though you'd think Rafa had 100m to spend on a striker and came back with Joselu and said here Mike I don't need this other 95m.

He was given 5m that is all he had
I agree the truth is somehwere in the middle of the two arguments, though to your specific point, when you see the club aren't going to spend money, and you're left signing crap like Joselu, then maybe you should do more to try and use your existing players that are more highly valued. Not that I'm trying to go back down the Mitrovic debate hole, but I'll continue to question his choice of Joselu over Mitrovic, especially now that Rondon has demonstrated a player of their style can produce "in Rafa's system".

Edit: sorry for repeating Luque, I was typing my reply up as he was posting his.
Not at all.

We had 2 strikers on the books when Joselu came in. We needed another striker, I have no idea how the 3 of them performed in Training but judging that
Joselu played 30 out of 28 games and Gayle 35 out 38 that they performed better to Rafa's tactics
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Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Manure

Post by overseasTOON » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:36 pm

I've had a great idea!

Given that many are saying if Liverpool win tonight then the title race is done and dusted; why not just finish the league early and we're safe from relegation?

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Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Manure

Post by Bodacious Benny » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:38 pm

overseasTOON wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:36 pm
I've had a great idea!

Given that many are saying if Liverpool win tonight then the title race is done and dusted; why not just finish the league early and we're safe from relegation?
Deal.

(I actually think it is over if they win tonight).
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Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Manure

Post by CIH » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:11 pm

Remember Colo wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:19 pm
CIH wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:41 pm


And in the same way you are entitled to have an opinion against Rafa and his signings, we are entitled to believe something different. Facts can be used to back up opinions, but it's still just that - from all of us. Rafa is far from perfect, and his transfer activity has been far from stellar. It has to be taken into account that the ownership model hamstrings him in the transfer market, and same as everyone else some signings just don't work out. Of course he's made errors and not everything is brilliant, Mitrovic would again be my key example for that.

If it comes down to the basic thing that seemingly spltis a lot of us lately, replacing Rafa, then who comes in? His tactics may be frustratingly negative, and I fully agree with the annoyance when it comes to defending deep against the likes of Fulham. Last night I thought we played quite well, but the quality of the opposition shone through. Any manager to replace Rafa would have the same set of players to deal with, and the same restrictions as per transfer incomings. Who would you bring in that would significantly improve the team? I know AVB has been mentioned by some, and while he's been highly rated in the past and might well know his onions, not sure his the right answer. And considering he's been managing in Russia and China, not sure we'd be able to afford him.

It will probably all become moot when he likely leaves at the end of the season, but for the time being I would rather back Benitez than replace Rafa.
Despite some of my criticisms, I don't want to come off as thinking we'd be better off sacking Rafa. He definitely offers more benefits than disadvantages, I've just always thought he isn't without some criticisms - but it always seems hard to stay in the grey when debating online.
Can't help but agree. It might be coloured by some of the recent crap we've had, but he's definitely he best manager we've had in a young time - certainly in the Ashley era. Hard to count Keegan's return really. I think that and his past reputation has given him a bit of cover from criticism, not entirely unwarranted. Nor should he be free from the critics though. He's far from perfect, and does make mistakes, of which he should be accountable. There are those who think he should be gone, and I'm not one of them. Nor am I talking about anyone in particular, just in general.

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Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Manure

Post by Colly » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:27 pm

Luque wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:37 pm
Sir Bobby wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:19 pm
Hughton was widely regarded as signing good players (mainly because he signed ones that “did the job” in the Championship, a right in signing players that isn’t afforded to Rafa for unknown reasons). Here’s some signings people don’t remember: Harewood (equivalent to D. Murphy who bizarrely is being categorised as some sort of failure despite him costing the club a net of £1m and scoring 5 league goals including a late winner), Danny Simpson (a player widely thought to be utter s*** and costing us countless points during his time here), Khizanishvili (garbage), Routledge (read: Atsu), Williamson (incomparable to Clark), Leon Best (read: Joselu). In preparation for the Prem we signed James Perch (lol), Dan Gosling (lol), a 97-year-old Sol Campbell (lol) alongside two good signings. The difference between then and now is that people realised and accepted Hughton was working under ridiculous constraints compared to other teams in the league.

However, Rafa has made some very weird signings, especially as the fees rise. For a manager who IS under constraints you’d think that he would be more thoughtful when he spends big. His current £9m or higher signings are: Gayle, Ritchie, J. Murphy and Muto. Excluding Ritchie, they’ve played a combined average of 14 (full) premiership games for us. You’d expect your biggest signings to be playing as much as possible but that hasn’t been the case for any of Rafa’s bar Ritchie. Even some of his other larger ones have spent most of their time on the bench too (Atsu and Merino). It’s all just really confusing and nobody knows where the blame lies. Take Mitrovic; he was frozen out by Rafa so the blame lies there BUT Rafa might have been told that he would be able to sign a new striker with the funds generated and was given nobody so it would be Ashley’s fault OR he might have been told that he’d get half of the money which he then used to sign Muto (to not play) so the blame would be back with Rafa.

The simple fact of the matter is we don’t know what goes on at the **** boardroom level but if the past is anything to base things on then I’m much more likely to give Rafa the benefit of the doubt than Ashley.
Leon Best got 10 in 29 goals in Premier League for Newcastle.
Joselu has 6 in 40. To compare the 2 is actually scandalous.
Ditto Routledge and Atsu, Routledge scored and created goals and we sold him on to a PL side. Atsu will be lucky to do anywhere near that.

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Re: Match day thread - NUFC v Manure

Post by Remember Colo » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:41 pm

CIH wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:56 pm
Best only played 29 premier league games? I feel like he was knocking about for ages.
Had a lot of injuries, including being put out for the rest of the season by the Harper elbow drop in the 4-4 <laugh>

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