Ashley “close to conceding defeat” re: selling the club


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Re: Ashley “close to conceding defeat” re: selling the club

Post by Colback's Orange Tufts » Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:57 pm

Donkey Toon wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:37 pm
Colback's Orange Tufts wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:06 pm


Of course prospective buyers will argue he has destroyed value at the club and so shouldn't get back what he put in... And there comes the impasse
Which is a **** argument made by somebody trying to haggle down a price. The legal reality is that one legal entity owes another legal entity a sum of money in line with a legally binding loan agreement. What buyers may think is utterly irrelevant.
Maybe I wasn't clear, I mean "shouldn't get back all his equity investment" not on the debt.
Ashley is owed £Xm in debt and yes he's entitled to that. After the debt payment, the enterprise value of the club is subjective and one can make an argument about value destruction. From a buyers perspective, when acquiring the equity they will need to settle the debt and hence its important.
And football clubs are very illiquid assets, that don't generate massive cashflow. I think that makes it a buyers market, particularity when its known the owner is very keen to sell and the asset is somewhat distressed.
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Re: Ashley “close to conceding defeat” re: selling the club

Post by Donkey Toon » Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:05 pm

Colback's Orange Tufts wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:57 pm
Donkey Toon wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:37 pm


Which is a **** argument made by somebody trying to haggle down a price. The legal reality is that one legal entity owes another legal entity a sum of money in line with a legally binding loan agreement. What buyers may think is utterly irrelevant.
Maybe I wasn't clear, I mean "shouldn't get back all his equity investment" not on the debt.
Ashley is owed £Xm in debt and yes he's entitled to that. After the debt payment, the enterprise value of the club is subjective and one can make an argument about value destruction. From a buyers perspective, when acquiring the equity they will need to settle the debt and hence its important.
And football clubs are very illiquid assets, that don't generate massive cashflow. I think that makes it a buyers market, particularity when its known the owner is very keen to sell and the asset is somewhat distressed.

Yeah, you're wording was sloppy and I jumped all over it ... sorry about that. ;)

Like you say a buyer will have a price in mind and will include inherited debt within that valuation. Their offer will be for club inclusive of loan repayment or cancellation. So if Ashley wants his loan money back he is going to have to be willing to negotiate a reduction in the asking price or stick to his valuation but agree to write-off all or part of the loan.

Or he can stick to his price and enforce the loan and never sell the club. His choice ... unfortunately.

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Re: Ashley “close to conceding defeat” re: selling the club

Post by Donkey Toon » Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:22 pm

Captain Obvious wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:44 pm
And don't say wages!!! https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/f ... e-15467606
So if those figures are accuirate £1,650,133 x 52 = £85,806,916 per annum. Which may be about right because the last set of published figures (for y/e 30 June 2017) was £112.2m, but that figure included £30m in promotion bonuses.


So that would be about £37m + other income streams (?) - other expenses (?) = ??? (but obviously a sizeable profit) - tax = ??? Still a sizeable profit I would imagine.

Which is now sat in the bank, been repaid to MA, or a combination of the two.


I don't doubt for one second there is, or once was, money to spend on players. The question is will MA sanction spending money on a venture he has obviously lost interest in and wants out of?

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Re: Ashley “close to conceding defeat” re: selling the club

Post by Colly » Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:40 pm

I think the difference is that most clubs are willing to take those losses (whether to speculate a little on making more if they do so, or usually just because the owner isn't in it to make money), while we're still trying to claw back Ashley's loans essentially. It's daft, because that's a) how we keep dicing with the massive financial hit of relegation and b) why we're so toxic to sponsors who might actually pay sensible money, but that's where we are. I'd be very surprised if there genuinely was money being siphoned off elsewhere, I just think he wants his money back.

Edit: Didn't read the last page of replies...

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Re: Ashley “close to conceding defeat” re: selling the club

Post by Bodacious Benny » Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:51 pm

Colly wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:40 pm
I think the difference is that most clubs are willing to take those losses (whether to speculate a little on making more if they do so, or usually just because the owner isn't in it to make money), while we're still trying to claw back Ashley's loans essentially. It's daft, because that's a) how we keep dicing with the massive financial hit of relegation and b) why we're so toxic to sponsors who might actually pay sensible money, but that's where we are. I'd be very surprised if there genuinely was money being siphoned off elsewhere, I just think he wants his money back.

Edit: Didn't read the last page of replies...
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Re: Ashley “close to conceding defeat” re: selling the club

Post by Captain Obvious » Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:44 pm

Donkey Toon wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:22 pm
Captain Obvious wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:44 pm
And don't say wages!!! https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/f ... e-15467606
So if those figures are accuirate £1,650,133 x 52 = £85,806,916 per annum. Which may be about right because the last set of published figures (for y/e 30 June 2017) was £112.2m, but that figure included £30m in promotion bonuses.


So that would be about £37m + other income streams (?) - other expenses (?) = ??? (but obviously a sizeable profit) - tax = ??? Still a sizeable profit I would imagine.

Which is now sat in the bank, been repaid to MA, or a combination of the two.


I don't doubt for one second there is, or once was, money to spend on players. The question is will MA sanction spending money on a venture he has obviously lost interest in and wants out of?
But does that money belong to the club? Or Mike Ashley? Can/could he be taking money out of the club to fund other ventures?

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Re: Ashley “close to conceding defeat” re: selling the club

Post by B4E » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:40 pm

Is there still protesting going on regarding the ownership? The fact Newcastle still have Mike Ashley as their owner doesn't fill me with confidence for Bolton's protesting <puke>
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Re: Ashley “close to conceding defeat” re: selling the club

Post by PTAO? » Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:27 am

Donkey Toon wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:05 pm
Colback's Orange Tufts wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:57 pm


Maybe I wasn't clear, I mean "shouldn't get back all his equity investment" not on the debt.
Ashley is owed £Xm in debt and yes he's entitled to that. After the debt payment, the enterprise value of the club is subjective and one can make an argument about value destruction. From a buyers perspective, when acquiring the equity they will need to settle the debt and hence its important.
And football clubs are very illiquid assets, that don't generate massive cashflow. I think that makes it a buyers market, particularity when its known the owner is very keen to sell and the asset is somewhat distressed.

Yeah, you're wording was sloppy and I jumped all over it ... sorry about that. ;)

No YOU are wording was sloppy

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Re: Ashley “close to conceding defeat” re: selling the club

Post by R&B » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:42 am

The other day I saw that Flannels are also owned by ashley... Didn't know that. And they also have an advertising panels at SJP. I wonder do we took some money from them... Ha.
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Re: Ashley “close to conceding defeat” re: selling the club

Post by Toondes » Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:19 pm

PTAO? wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:27 am
Donkey Toon wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:05 pm



Yeah, you're wording was sloppy and I jumped all over it ... sorry about that. ;)

No YOU are wording was sloppy
Took me a while to spot that haha
# stolen from nufc.com :)

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Re: Ashley “close to conceding defeat” re: selling the club

Post by Colly » Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:56 pm

R&B wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:42 am
The other day I saw that Flannels are also owned by ashley... Didn't know that. And they also have an advertising panels at SJP. I wonder do we took some money from them... Ha.
Flannels is a shop? I thought we were just advertising flannels. I assumed they were on offer in Sports Direct.

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Re: Ashley “close to conceding defeat” re: selling the club

Post by Speedo » Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:34 pm

Colly wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:56 pm
R&B wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:42 am
The other day I saw that Flannels are also owned by ashley... Didn't know that. And they also have an advertising panels at SJP. I wonder do we took some money from them... Ha.
Flannels is a shop? I thought we were just advertising flannels. I assumed they were on offer in Sports Direct.
Allegedly it is a "premium brand" owned by SD.
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Re: Ashley “close to conceding defeat” re: selling the club

Post by UlversToon » Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:51 pm

Speedo wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:34 pm
Colly wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:56 pm


Flannels is a shop? I thought we were just advertising flannels. I assumed they were on offer in Sports Direct.
Allegedly it is a "premium brand" owned by SD.
Can't be that much of a "premium brand" as they have a store in sun***land!

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Re: Ashley “close to conceding defeat” re: selling the club

Post by Chappy » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:18 pm

We're going down...
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Re: Ashley “close to conceding defeat” re: selling the club

Post by lassassinblanc » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:39 pm

Interesting comments from Dave Kitson, most likely bull though

I can let you in on a little bit of an exclusive. Don’t ask me how I know but I do. This club will be sold before the end of the season.”

“It’s going to be between £300million and £400million. But it is going.”
<ayo>

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Re: Ashley “close to conceding defeat” re: selling the club

Post by The Deluded Pablo Diego Jose Francisco » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:47 pm

lassassinblanc wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:39 pm
Interesting comments from Dave Kitson, most likely bull though

I can let you in on a little bit of an exclusive. Don’t ask me how I know but I do. This club will be sold before the end of the season.”

“It’s going to be between £300million and £400million. But it is going.”
<wah> Not again!

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Re: Ashley “close to conceding defeat” re: selling the club

Post by Colly » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:51 pm

Dave Kitson?!?

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Re: Ashley “close to conceding defeat” re: selling the club

Post by lassassinblanc » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:02 pm

Colly wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:51 pm
Dave Kitson?!?
Yep that's what makes me sceptical amongst other things
<ayo>

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Re: Ashley “close to conceding defeat” re: selling the club

Post by Remember Colo » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:09 pm

I think it will be sold in the not-so-distant future, and likely in that price range too, but I absolutely wouldn't expect that to happen in the next month.

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