Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

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Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

Post by Vaj » Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:52 pm

Five at the back is not a negative tactic if the players are right. Chelsea won the league playing five at the back! We were all praising the system a week ago after beating Cardiff because it was starting to look decent. I have no doubt that we will survive playing this way and I think it works. It’s just our attitude to the cups that pisses me off. It’s the only hope we have these days

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Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

Post by Remember Colo » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:06 am

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:01 pm
Donkey Toon wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:40 pm



Well maybe somebody should remind him of his pedigree when he lines up to play five at the back against the likes of Blackburn or Watford reserves. His performance at Newcastle has fallen well short of his reputation, so I'd say Alf's comment is pretty accurate.

And I stand by my opinion, however good he may or may not have been at other clubs in the past, his performance has been average at best in past seasons and s*** during this one.
And I don’t disagree with some of that, but to blanket label him a s*** manager is clearly bollocks.

I’m not a fan of five at the back in games like this, but take Chelsea away for example. We set up perfectly and could / should have won the game had it not been for not having players to finish the chances we created. Tactics were bang on, the manager can’t be blamed for not being allowed to bring in quality.
I agree with your overall point. But I will blame him when he chooses not to play the only striker capable of scoring goals. This squad (and the tactics he employs) are way too limited when it comes to attacking to not play the most effective forward available.

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Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

Post by Beatski » Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:59 am

Would have liked to have seen a full strength team. Its not like we're going to get anything from Man City on Tuesday anyway

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Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

Post by Bodacious Benny » Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:15 am

Remember Colo wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:06 am
Bodacious Benny wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:01 pm


And I don’t disagree with some of that, but to blanket label him a s*** manager is clearly bollocks.

I’m not a fan of five at the back in games like this, but take Chelsea away for example. We set up perfectly and could / should have won the game had it not been for not having players to finish the chances we created. Tactics were bang on, the manager can’t be blamed for not being allowed to bring in quality.
I agree with your overall point. But I will blame him when he chooses not to play the only striker capable of scoring goals. This squad (and the tactics he employs) are way too limited when it comes to attacking to not play the most effective forward available.
Yeah I agree that yesterday (and the first leg v Blackburn) we should have played Rondon.

Rafa is far from perfect, and fans are frustrated that we’ve yet again thrown away a chance to progress in the cup (Arsenal, Liverpool, Everton, West Ham, Leicester etc all out already, we had every chance of a good draw in the next round) but that doesn’t mean that Rafa is a s*** manager who’s ‘gotten lucky’ through his career which is what was claimed earlier. You don’t win as many honours as he has via luck or by being a s*** manager.
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Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

Post by Colly » Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:16 am

Vaj wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:52 pm
Five at the back is not a negative tactic if the players are right. Chelsea won the league playing five at the back! We were all praising the system a week ago after beating Cardiff because it was starting to look decent. I have no doubt that we will survive playing this way and I think it works. It’s just our attitude to the cups that pisses me off. It’s the only hope we have these days
Chelsea's five at the back had Alonso essentially playing as a winger and Azpilicueta (probably spelled wrong) in the middle doing the mop up job. Our 5 at the back has Ritchie getting no higher up the Dummett does in a back 4. It's completely incomparable.

Worse than that is the fact that it leaves us short up top and with no width at all, but actually doesn't even seem to make us more defensively sound. We concede no fewer goals with the 5 than we did with the 4 and invite pressure all game.

Yes Cardiff was a good result, but they were awful and our first goal came because one of our centre halfs took it on himself to actually give us some numbers up top. f*** it, we should have just played Schar instead of Joselu yesterday...

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Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

Post by Heisen » Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:25 am

Blaming Benitez is futile. Cut him out and drop any other manager in and you'd have the same thing. It's just a fact- Ashley is the plague, he is the poison draining the club, nobody else.

Infact, at this stage, if you are going to the matches and booing the players (see Perez) or expecting it all to miraculously change and suddenly become positive, free flowing attacking football when Benitez goes, you're a f***ing moron. If you cannot see that Mike Ashley is the one who has destroyed this football club, but still shuffle obediently to your seat whilst paying him hundreds of pounds to then boo the players or harass the manager for playing the cards he's been dealt, you're actually part of the problem.
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Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

Post by Colly » Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:31 am

There is a middle ground though which is where a lot of match going fans are, which is fundamentally sick of the lack of investment and still backing the players, but absolutely questioning the tactics. You're right, we're unlikely to attract a top manager, or indeed any manager knowing they aren't getting any investment, but 5 at the back and not a single shot on goal at home to Fulham is utterly embarrassing and you're lying if you'd argue that at all.

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Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

Post by Bruuuuuuuuce () » Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:39 am

Glad we've got fresh legs for the match against Man City. What a disgrace to prioritise that match over the FA Cup.

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Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

Post by Bruuuuuuuuce () » Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:40 am

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:15 am
Remember Colo wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:06 am

I agree with your overall point. But I will blame him when he chooses not to play the only striker capable of scoring goals. This squad (and the tactics he employs) are way too limited when it comes to attacking to not play the most effective forward available.
Yeah I agree that yesterday (and the first leg v Blackburn) we should have played Rondon.

Rafa is far from perfect, and fans are frustrated that we’ve yet again thrown away a chance to progress in the cup (Arsenal, Liverpool, Everton, West Ham, Leicester etc all out already, we had every chance of a good draw in the next round) but that doesn’t mean that Rafa is a s*** manager who’s ‘gotten lucky’ through his career which is what was claimed earlier. You don’t win as many honours as he has via luck or by being a s*** manager.
Unfortunately your ability isn't consistent throughout your life. You can be a s*** manager but have been a good one in the past. To suggest what someone has done in the past makes him a good manager now is daft. What's his performance like now? It's certainly not at the standard I'd expect.

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Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

Post by Heisen » Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:54 am

Colly wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:31 am
There is a middle ground though which is where a lot of match going fans are, which is fundamentally sick of the lack of investment and still backing the players, but absolutely questioning the tactics. You're right, we're unlikely to attract a top manager, or indeed any manager knowing they aren't getting any investment, but 5 at the back and not a single shot on goal at home to Fulham is utterly embarrassing and you're lying if you'd argue that at all.
And indeed I wouldn't argue that. I do think Benitez hasn't helped himself at all and the fact is it'll be better for both parties when he goes. I'm tired of the dull anti-football as much as the next man, I just honestly can't see what's going to change when he does go. And that's because nothing will change.

Best case scenario is we stay up. But that is literally the aim, every season, and will be from now until he goes. Not getting beyond the 4th round of the cup in 10 years is a disgrace. But some people seem fit to direct their ire solely at Benitez, which in reality is like screaming at the water from your leaking tap asking it to stop. We might have somebody in next year who plays more positive football, but that won't change much really. You might see a few more 3-0 wins but on the flipside expect a lot more defeats.

I guess what I'm saying is the trend will stay the same, even if we do get somebody in more positive than Benitez. We'll still have a threadbare squad full of s***. The training ground will still be falling to bits. There'll still be tacky SD s*** plastered everywhere. We'll still go out of both cups early. We'll still struggle to finish above 16th. Removing Ashley should be the goal of every supporter but instead you have people who actually seem to think Benitez is the problem, or Ayoze Perez is the problem, and so on, and give very little attention to the actual f***ing problem, which is Ashley.

And I guarantee you now in 18 months all you'll get is people moaning about the new manager and his shortcomings, and this whole sorry cycle will repeat itself. And will do ad infinitum until Ashley goes.
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Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

Post by Bodacious Benny » Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:58 am

<applause>
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Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

Post by ALF » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:35 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:25 pm
s*** manager living off a lucky champions league win....heard it all now <laugh>

Yeah football has been s*** with us a lot of the time (hardly blessed with an abundance of talent), but he’s won the Champions League, UEFA Cup, FA Cup, Italian Cup, La Liga TWICE ffs and probably other things I’ve forgotten. Sure a lot of them were a fair time ago now, although the uefa cup and Italian Cup(s) were more recent, but to blanket label him a s*** or a lucky manager is amongst the most stupid things ever said on here. You might strike lucky winning one or two things, but not that many.
It's a bit of an exaggeration, however he is 100% trading off past glories, 90% of which were well over a decade ago. Being a World Class manager in 2005 doesn't mean you're a World Class manager in 2019. His time here has been largely s*** and he's shown little more than Alan Pardew did when he was here.

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Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

Post by ALF » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:43 pm

Heisen wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:54 am
Colly wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:31 am
There is a middle ground though which is where a lot of match going fans are, which is fundamentally sick of the lack of investment and still backing the players, but absolutely questioning the tactics. You're right, we're unlikely to attract a top manager, or indeed any manager knowing they aren't getting any investment, but 5 at the back and not a single shot on goal at home to Fulham is utterly embarrassing and you're lying if you'd argue that at all.
And indeed I wouldn't argue that. I do think Benitez hasn't helped himself at all and the fact is it'll be better for both parties when he goes. I'm tired of the dull anti-football as much as the next man, I just honestly can't see what's going to change when he does go. And that's because nothing will change.

Best case scenario is we stay up. But that is literally the aim, every season, and will be from now until he goes. Not getting beyond the 4th round of the cup in 10 years is a disgrace. But some people seem fit to direct their ire solely at Benitez, which in reality is like screaming at the water from your leaking tap asking it to stop. We might have somebody in next year who plays more positive football, but that won't change much really. You might see a few more 3-0 wins but on the flipside expect a lot more defeats.

I guess what I'm saying is the trend will stay the same, even if we do get somebody in more positive than Benitez. We'll still have a threadbare squad full of s***. The training ground will still be falling to bits. There'll still be tacky SD s*** plastered everywhere. We'll still go out of both cups early. We'll still struggle to finish above 16th. Removing Ashley should be the goal of every supporter but instead you have people who actually seem to think Benitez is the problem, or Ayoze Perez is the problem, and so on, and give very little attention to the actual f***ing problem, which is Ashley.

And I guarantee you now in 18 months all you'll get is people moaning about the new manager and his shortcomings, and this whole sorry cycle will repeat itself. And will do ad infinitum until Ashley goes.
Whilst I agree with a lot of that, there isn't just one problem at the club. Mike Ashley is the biggest problem without a doubt, however on the flipside there are people that seem to think we'll get a takeover, spend a fortune and suddenly Rafa will have us playing good, attacking football and he'll make all these top signings. Chances are we'd get slightly upgraded versions of Diame, Joselu, Ritchie, Atsu etc. We'd still have team of workhorses that try not to concede.

As you say, removing Ashley should be the goal and hopefully it's sooner rather than later. But the club needs an overhaul. New owner, new chairman, new manager, investment in the training ground, stadium, staff, players, academy. It's rotten from top to bottom and needs a complete reset.

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Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

Post by Bodacious Benny » Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:11 pm

It’s worrying that a lot of clubs are using the money in the game at the moment (which won’t last forever) to develop and future proof themselves (e.g. state of the art training facilities etc) whereas we’re doing nothing. There’s a very real risk that we will be left behind and our long term prospects don’t look good.
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Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

Post by Heisen » Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:14 pm

ALF wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:43 pm
Heisen wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:54 am


And indeed I wouldn't argue that. I do think Benitez hasn't helped himself at all and the fact is it'll be better for both parties when he goes. I'm tired of the dull anti-football as much as the next man, I just honestly can't see what's going to change when he does go. And that's because nothing will change.

Best case scenario is we stay up. But that is literally the aim, every season, and will be from now until he goes. Not getting beyond the 4th round of the cup in 10 years is a disgrace. But some people seem fit to direct their ire solely at Benitez, which in reality is like screaming at the water from your leaking tap asking it to stop. We might have somebody in next year who plays more positive football, but that won't change much really. You might see a few more 3-0 wins but on the flipside expect a lot more defeats.

I guess what I'm saying is the trend will stay the same, even if we do get somebody in more positive than Benitez. We'll still have a threadbare squad full of s***. The training ground will still be falling to bits. There'll still be tacky SD s*** plastered everywhere. We'll still go out of both cups early. We'll still struggle to finish above 16th. Removing Ashley should be the goal of every supporter but instead you have people who actually seem to think Benitez is the problem, or Ayoze Perez is the problem, and so on, and give very little attention to the actual f***ing problem, which is Ashley.

And I guarantee you now in 18 months all you'll get is people moaning about the new manager and his shortcomings, and this whole sorry cycle will repeat itself. And will do ad infinitum until Ashley goes.
Whilst I agree with a lot of that, there isn't just one problem at the club. Mike Ashley is the biggest problem without a doubt, however on the flipside there are people that seem to think we'll get a takeover, spend a fortune and suddenly Rafa will have us playing good, attacking football and he'll make all these top signings. Chances are we'd get slightly upgraded versions of Diame, Joselu, Ritchie, Atsu etc. We'd still have team of workhorses that try not to concede.

As you say, removing Ashley should be the goal and hopefully it's sooner rather than later. But the club needs an overhaul. New owner, new chairman, new manager, investment in the training ground, stadium, staff, players, academy. It's rotten from top to bottom and needs a complete reset.
I agree entirely, it needs a total reboot all the way through. Ashley's rotten ownership has quite literally damaged the club in every aspect, I find it staggering there are people out there still willing to defend him.

I will defend Benitez slightly on the signings. I highly doubt that Joselu was even in his top 10 signings. However that is not to say he is blameless - the few 'big money' signings he has made have all been very questionable, so I totally sympathise with people who don't particularly relish him having a bigger pot to play with.

I fear we are a relegation away from catastrophe. It is absolutely imperative we stay up this season otherwise there is a very good chance the club will just drop like a stone.
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Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

Post by Heisen » Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:23 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:11 pm
It’s worrying that a lot of clubs are using the money in the game at the moment (which won’t last forever) to develop and future proof themselves (e.g. state of the art training facilities etc) whereas we’re doing nothing. There’s a very real risk that we will be left behind and our long term prospects don’t look good.
As we all know, Ashley is purely running us like an extended arm of Sports Direct. He has a 'that will do' attitude which means any money or profit the club is turning goes straight into the coffers to pay for the costs of its running, making it self-sustainable. That is an admirable approach to running any business, but Ashley still hasn't grasped (or more than likely has but now doesn't care) running a football club isn't like running a business. And any business worth it's salt understands that certain costs have to be underwritten as part of the profit- things like upkeep of facilities, staff turnover etc. Most (ie. Almost all) businesses actually factor these costs into the day to day running, not have them tacked on as added extras, as Ashley seems to think they are.

But as we know from the investigation into Sports Directs practices, it seems the welfare of his staff and facilities are just drains on Ashley's single-minded focus of making money. He is just a greedy, selfish piece of s*** who has no desire other than to keep turning a profit at the absolute lowest cost possible. Any money the club gets will just be hoovered up towards that.
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Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

Post by Colly » Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:30 pm

Heisen wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:14 pm
ALF wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:43 pm


Whilst I agree with a lot of that, there isn't just one problem at the club. Mike Ashley is the biggest problem without a doubt, however on the flipside there are people that seem to think we'll get a takeover, spend a fortune and suddenly Rafa will have us playing good, attacking football and he'll make all these top signings. Chances are we'd get slightly upgraded versions of Diame, Joselu, Ritchie, Atsu etc. We'd still have team of workhorses that try not to concede.

As you say, removing Ashley should be the goal and hopefully it's sooner rather than later. But the club needs an overhaul. New owner, new chairman, new manager, investment in the training ground, stadium, staff, players, academy. It's rotten from top to bottom and needs a complete reset.
I agree entirely, it needs a total reboot all the way through. Ashley's rotten ownership has quite literally damaged the club in every aspect, I find it staggering there are people out there still willing to defend him.

I will defend Benitez slightly on the signings. I highly doubt that Joselu was even in his top 10 signings. However that is not to say he is blameless - the few 'big money' signings he has made have all been very questionable, so I totally sympathise with people who don't particularly relish him having a bigger pot to play with.

I fear we are a relegation away from catastrophe. It is absolutely imperative we stay up this season otherwise there is a very good chance the club will just drop like a stone.
Are there people still defending Ashley though? I just don't see it. There's a bit of me that can justify what he's doing to an extent (trying to get his money back) but I wouldn't suggest that's defending him, and I'd certainly never defend the way he's done it by making the brand so toxic that commercial revenues are so badly damaged whilst gambling on near relegation year after year.

I genuinely just don't see these people you're describing who dislike Benitez whilst overlooking Ashley.

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Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

Post by Heisen » Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:39 pm

Colly wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:30 pm
Heisen wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:14 pm


I agree entirely, it needs a total reboot all the way through. Ashley's rotten ownership has quite literally damaged the club in every aspect, I find it staggering there are people out there still willing to defend him.

I will defend Benitez slightly on the signings. I highly doubt that Joselu was even in his top 10 signings. However that is not to say he is blameless - the few 'big money' signings he has made have all been very questionable, so I totally sympathise with people who don't particularly relish him having a bigger pot to play with.

I fear we are a relegation away from catastrophe. It is absolutely imperative we stay up this season otherwise there is a very good chance the club will just drop like a stone.
Are there people still defending Ashley though? I just don't see it. There's a bit of me that can justify what he's doing to an extent (trying to get his money back) but I wouldn't suggest that's defending him, and I'd certainly never defend the way he's done it by making the brand so toxic that commercial revenues are so badly damaged whilst gambling on near relegation year after year.

I genuinely just don't see these people you're describing who dislike Benitez whilst overlooking Ashley.
There's a few. Look on Twitter for a start. There's a vocal minority who feel that blaming Ashley is an easy way out in order to overlook Benitez' shortcomings. Maybe not defending Ashley as such in terms of 'he's doing a great job' like knobheads such as Ferdinand and Wise, but certainly wasting too much energy at shouting for a change of manager than directing that towards Ashley.
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Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

Post by Colly » Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:58 pm

To be fair, Twitter.

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Re: Match thread.FA cup NUFC v Watford

Post by Heisen » Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:02 pm

Fair point <laugh>

The s*** thing is it's usually the Twitter mob that get picked up by the mainstream press and make us look like utter imbeciles, thus giving Ashley's apologist mates a wall to hide behind.
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