Match thread - Wolves v Toon

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Re: Match thread - Wolves v Toon

Post by Beatski » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:26 am

Sir Bobby wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:29 pm
Remember Colo wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:25 pm
I don't like inconsistent refereeing. It's common the game over, but I can almost guarantee that gets called a foul for the first 85 minutes of the match - seeing as any contact by the attacker in the box is called anymore - but in the final minute they let it go.
It's also the same referee who gave Liverpool a penalty for Salah having his arm lightly brushed by Dummett
Well that just makes things worse

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Re: Match thread - Wolves v Toon

Post by overseasTOON » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:32 am

Sir Bobby wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:18 pm


Nice clear view of it
Just proves that if you don't practice, practice, practice; you'll never pull off the the end of show Dirty Dancing routine.

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Re: Match thread - Wolves v Toon

Post by Colly » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:35 am

Donkey Toon wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:56 pm
Colly wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:36 pm


But to do that he'd essentially be barging into Dubravka which is just going to cause carnage. I think you're asking an awful lot of a defender to deal with a floaty cross to the back post like that. That's the keepers ball, you really don't see defenders behind them waiting for them to fail to catch.
At what point did I suggest he would be challenging the keeper for the ball? And yes it is standard defending ... at least according to the coaching I received as a player anyway. It is essentially no different than using your body to shield the ball as it goes out for a goal kick or throw in. And an opposition player has no right to barge through you to get the ball in any of those instances.
I do understand what you're saying, and had it been a corner I'd be all for a player or two protecting the keeper so he can get out for the ball, but in this case with Boly running from the edge of the area to a ball dropping on the goal line the best a defender is going to do is risk a penalty blocking him (the difference in the case of shielding for a corner or throw in is that the defender is classed as in possession, what you're suggesting is obstruction at very least) or make it harder for Dubravka if he gets close to him. It's a situation where the goalkeeper needs to be much stronger, it's an error. On to the next one.

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Re: Match thread - Wolves v Toon

Post by jpg » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:17 am

Strange why Dubravka took so long to jump for the catch. His arms only seem to go up after Boly heads the ball...

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Re: Match thread - Wolves v Toon

Post by Sanchino » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:03 am

Another thing I noticed about yesterday is how well this 3-4-3 / 5-4-1 formation suits us, we have 3 quality CB's in the first XI with 3 more than suitable back-ups in Fernandez, Dummet and Clark. The central midfield area is fine especially with Diame back, Ki and Shevely coming back into contention too and upfront we have a solid & strong number 9 in Rondon and a creative speedy outball in Almiron. Perez recently has been decent too just needs to improve his finishing and decision making at times still looks a bit lightweight too me. Atsu has worked hard and is quick but you can tell the technical qualities such as crossing, finishing and footballing IQ are lacking. The 2 areas I see we have to improve and make reinforcements in summer is definitely RWB and LWB. For starters Ritchie isn't a LWB he's more suited to a RM / RW role were his crossing and shooting can come more into effect and Yedelin as much as he's looked decent in that position at times his crossing and overall attacking play's been below par for me all he has is speed which gets him out of trouble at times but he's unconvincing to the say least. Maybe Barreca who wasn't even on the bench yesterday could be the answer and dare I say it give Manquillo a run out in the team. But overall with better players in those positions (this is of course if we manage to survive relegation) and Benitez staying we could be in the same position Wolves are right now (8th). A striker to replace Joselu and compete with Rondon, maybe another LW/RW, a DM to replace the aging Diame and a couple of full-backs who can cross and penetrate the final third more will do us very good in the long run. <ok>

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Re: Match thread - Wolves v Toon

Post by Heisen » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:12 am

For me it was a combination of both. A top class goalkeeper would have known Boly was coming and punched it. However he was fouled, Boly had both of his hands over his head at one point.

Goalkeepers are tricky. Dropping him after one or two mistakes could knock his confidence, especially after he's been superb for the past year. How many times did Schar and Lejeune give the ball away yesterday, but funnily enough nobody is giving them any stick or demanding they be dropped.
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Re: Match thread - Wolves v Toon

Post by Bodacious Benny » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:20 am

Anyone wanting Dubravka dropped is clearly off their rocker.

Optimistic of 6 points in our next couple of games.
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Re: Match thread - Wolves v Toon

Post by Colly » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:33 am

Lejeune actually had the worst game I've ever seen him have, few shaky bits plus the two "dives". Fortunate it didn't cost us really.

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Re: Match thread - Wolves v Toon

Post by Heisen » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:54 am

Dubravka is probably just becoming the next fashionable player to hate. We always have to have one don't we.
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Re: Match thread - Wolves v Toon

Post by Bodacious Benny » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:42 pm

Heisen wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:54 am
Dubravka is probably just becoming the next fashionable player to hate. We always have to have one don't we.
Nah it's Atsu for me as he's permanently rubbish <roll>

Almiron looked better in 20 mins that Atsu has in the last 4 or 5 games in total. Atsu is a Joselu, he'll keep on running and working hard but he just doesn't have the ability. He's a decent Championship level player.
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Re: Match thread - Wolves v Toon

Post by Colly » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:03 pm

Atsu isn't fashionable to hate, he's utter garbage but gets a bizarre pass from fans who think he runs about more than Perez (spoiler, he doesn't). It's Perez who's fashionable to hate. That said he (Atsu) was less useless than usual yesterday whilst remaining utterly unproductive.

Dubravka is a quality keeper but we'd be lying if we said he hadn't made key errors two games on the bounce. Not remotely a reason to drop him though, especially given how key the next two home games are.

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Re: Match thread - Wolves v Toon

Post by overseasTOON » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:15 pm

"Rafa Benitez says Martin Dubravka has to be stronger" according to Sky Sports.

Get him on the steak and milk diet!

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Re: Match thread - Wolves v Toon

Post by PTAO? » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:56 pm

Honestly it's like one WUM saying Dubravka should be dropped and 40 people saying how stupid everyone else is.

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Re: Match thread - Wolves v Toon

Post by lassassinblanc » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:00 pm

Sanchino wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:03 am
Another thing I noticed about yesterday is how well this 3-4-3 / 5-4-1 formation suits us, we have 3 quality CB's in the first XI with 3 more than suitable back-ups in Fernandez, Dummet and Clark. The central midfield area is fine especially with Diame back, Ki and Shevely coming back into contention too and upfront we have a solid & strong number 9 in Rondon and a creative speedy outball in Almiron. Perez recently has been decent too just needs to improve his finishing and decision making at times still looks a bit lightweight too me. Atsu has worked hard and is quick but you can tell the technical qualities such as crossing, finishing and footballing IQ are lacking. The 2 areas I see we have to improve and make reinforcements in summer is definitely RWB and LWB. For starters Ritchie isn't a LWB he's more suited to a RM / RW role were his crossing and shooting can come more into effect and Yedelin as much as he's looked decent in that position at times his crossing and overall attacking play's been below par for me all he has is speed which gets him out of trouble at times but he's unconvincing to the say least. Maybe Barreca who wasn't even on the bench yesterday could be the answer and dare I say it give Manquillo a run out in the team. But overall with better players in those positions (this is of course if we manage to survive relegation) and Benitez staying we could be in the same position Wolves are right now (8th). A striker to replace Joselu and compete with Rondon, maybe another LW/RW, a DM to replace the aging Diame and a couple of full-backs who can cross and penetrate the final third more will do us very good in the long run. <ok>

Couldn't agree more we're building very well towards the 3-4-3 / 5-4-1

my assessment of the squad is as follows:

GK:
In the system we play we want a keeper who is quick off his line and capable under the high balls which despite his mistakes in last few games Dubravka has been brilliant , a big test of his character in the next few games, Darlow is decent backup but I think he may leave in the summer with Woodman taking his place as deputy (though I would not be adverse to another loan spell for him with one of Otto or Harker making the step up as number 3).

Centre backs
In terms of cb we have 5 defenders who be in and around the starting XI for any team from about 5th down. Dummet is also a good option if really needed to play there.

Full /Wing backs
I agree Ritchie isn't a lwb but he is the most tried and trusted Rafa has at the moment hence why he plays there, I'd say Barreca will come in before the end of the season when he is more up to date with what Rafa wants from him tactically in the role if he does well then I can see his move being made permanent. Dummet is also a good option here if we need him.

On the right hand side, Yedlin is our most obvious starter but we could perhaps see Ritchie play here( as he has at times) if when Barreca/Dummett can make Lwb their own.

Manquillo is limited but is useful as he can play either side.

Though I agree rwb is a position I'd be looking to strengthen in the summer especially if we continue with the formation and style we are playing, Jeremy Toijan would be a great shout currently at Celtic on loan from Dortmund would most likely be available in the summer. (though I think Celtic may have an option to buy)

Centre mid
Our centre mid options look very good and competition there is key to the performances we've seen, Hayden has been brilliant when called upon (I'll be sad to see him go in the summer) Ki has fitted in very nicely. Diame and Shelvey have struggled with injuries but are both very capable starter when fit and in form, which brings me onto Longstaff this lad has taken his chance with both hands he was superb last night (Cue 35m bid from Liverpool in the summer).

Because you allude to Diame replacement I believe he is out of contract in the summer and I haven't heard any news of us looking to extend, I've seen Amadou being linked he'd be in a very similar mold to Diame.

Attacking mids

This is a bit of an role in the team, as in in our current formation this isn't really what you'd consider an attacking mid nor would you call it a Winger I'd say it's more of an advanced Mezzala, playing in those half spaces behind the Striker and covering out wide when needed to support the fullback.

Perez gets a lot of stick, but he works his ass off every game, his end product needs to improve but if look at his overall game I feel he has been one of better players this year

Almiron has looked good last night of course he still has to prove himself, you could see him looking to Rafa and Perez/Rondon giving him instructions as to what he was suppose to be doing, the trip to Spain will hopefully bring him up to speed.

In terms of others who can play this role, injuries and form of other have curtailed Muto (even though I see him as more of a striker).

Atsu is winger not a central attacking mid and you can see he is uncomfortable but again similar to Ritchie at LWB he's the trusted option for Rafa at the moment. As said earlier during the match when someone asked what role he playing he is at the moment Almiron place holder.

Kennedy has also played this role for us, but needs to improve massively he has the talent he showed that last year and in some glimpses this season, alongside Ritchie I think he the best crosser of the ball we have (which says a lot).

Strikers
Anyone who watched that match as well as the last few games bar Mike Ashley and Charnley can see that Rondon would have worth every penny of the 16.5m fee we could have gotten him for. I really hope West Brom stay in the Championship as that would be key to our negotiations to keep him in the summer.

The form of Rondon has kept Muto as well as injuries have kept on the sidelines but he does on the brief glimpses appear to be a gold option.

Onto Joselu again I think he gets a bit of unwarranted stick he playing the same role as Rondon only he isn't getting the same return in goals as the big fellow is.

Striker will be another key addition in the summer if we stay up and Rafa stays.

In most honest opinion given how we done last night I can see us picking up points in the next few games to stay up.
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Re: Match thread - Wolves v Toon

Post by lassassinblanc » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:10 pm

Just to elaborate more on that Attacking Mid Role- lets divide up the half of the pitch into a 4 by 5 section
A being strikers, B -being just behind , C being the central and D being in front of the back 3

A- 1/2/3/4/5
B- 1/2/3/4/5
C- 1/2/3/4/5
D- 1/2-3/4/5

Perez would predominantly be playing in the B4 role but also drifting in and out on B3 and B5 but also capable of dropping back to C4
while Almiron would be B2 while drifting to B1 and B3 -but also capable of dropping back to C2

So at times they are playing in the / position

This is where Atsu has not being proficient as I said he is more adapted to be either B1 or C1 and struggles in the middle.
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Re: Match thread - Wolves v Toon

Post by Colly » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:15 pm

You've sunk my aircraft carrier.

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Re: Match thread - Wolves v Toon

Post by lassassinblanc » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:22 pm

Colly wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:15 pm
You've sunk my aircraft carrier.
<gent>
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Re: Match thread - Wolves v Toon

Post by QWOP » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:24 pm

Disappointment aside, I’ve been impressed with us over the last four games. We have probably achieved 3 or 4 more points than we anticipated. Shame it could have been an additional 3 if not for unfortunate errors but I’ve seen enough to suspect we will be ok. No hate for Dubravka from me. He’s been imperious for 99% of his time with us.

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Re: Match thread - Wolves v Toon

Post by Bodacious Benny » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:08 pm

QWOP wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:24 pm
Disappointment aside, I’ve been impressed with us over the last four games. We have probably achieved 3 or 4 more points than we anticipated. Shame it could have been an additional 3 if not for unfortunate errors but I’ve seen enough to suspect we will be ok. No hate for Dubravka from me. He’s been imperious for 99% of his time with us.
Agreed.
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Re: Match thread - Wolves v Toon

Post by Remember Colo » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:41 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:21 pm
He looks every ounce a PL player, I’d go as far as to say that he’s the first CM on our team sheet at the moment (even when everyone else is fit). The others are vying for a place alongside him. Neves is touted as one of the best young midfielders around and Longstaff outshone him today so hopefully he can maintain and carry on doing what he’s doing. Got a great attitude too.
I'm glad he got a proper opportunity to prove himself. This isn't a shot at Rafa, because it goes back farther than him, but I feel like Longstaff is the first academy player (besides Dummett) to have gotten a consistent run-out in the senior side, in his true position, in a long time. Maybe he showed more on his loans and in the reserves to separate himself from others, but it just proves that given the right opportunity an unheralded youngster can exceed expectations.

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