Ashley and Rafa - Marriage of convenience

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Ashley and Rafa - Marriage of convenience

Post by originallad » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:05 am


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Re: Ashley and Rafa - Marriage of convenience

Post by Bodacious Benny » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:33 am

Yes all sounds about right, Benitez knows the game that he has been playing but I'm not sure that Ashley will blink. I can't see him giving Rafa the assurances or backing that he wants, and we'll continue to try and scrape survival on the cheap (if we stay up). It's taken Ashley a season and a half back in the PL to make the token Almiron signing which doesn't negate the lack of investment under his regime. Every PL standard now is £20m minimum. We need to also pay money for experienced players. Rondon at 30 for example, 30 isn't old for a PL footballer now. They can easily have a decent 5/6/7 years left in them (Glenn Murray shows that...), coaching, sports science, diet etc. has all come such a long way that it's not the case now where you get to your early 30's and think about retirement unless you have had an injury plagued career.

He's not everyone's cup of tea but I definitely want Rafa to stay. He gets the club, he gets the fans, he understands what it means and invests his efforts into every area of the club. For the criticism of his style of play I think he's found a formation that works for us and had we been allowed to sign better players we'd be much higher up the league playing this way.
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Re: Ashley and Rafa - Marriage of convenience

Post by Colly » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:13 am

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:33 am
Yes all sounds about right, Benitez knows the game that he has been playing but I'm not sure that Ashley will blink. I can't see him giving Rafa the assurances or backing that he wants, and we'll continue to try and scrape survival on the cheap (if we stay up). It's taken Ashley a season and a half back in the PL to make the token Almiron signing which doesn't negate the lack of investment under his regime. Every PL standard now is £20m minimum. We need to also pay money for experienced players. Rondon at 30 for example, 30 isn't old for a PL footballer now. They can easily have a decent 5/6/7 years left in them (Glenn Murray shows that...), coaching, sports science, diet etc. has all come such a long way that it's not the case now where you get to your early 30's and think about retirement unless you have had an injury plagued career.

He's not everyone's cup of tea but I definitely want Rafa to stay. He gets the club, he gets the fans, he understands what it means and invests his efforts into every area of the club. For the criticism of his style of play I think he's found a formation that works for us and had we been allowed to sign better players we'd be much higher up the league playing this way.
See I agree with most of this, but not the bolded. I'm sure that probably is the average fee at this stage but good players can be found at far less than that. Look at Bournemouth getting David Brooks for less than £10m. He wasn't exactly an unknown and would have been a great fit for us. Good scouting can save an absolute fortune and I'd rather a £6m gem than a £25m flop.

Honestly if I didn't know about player values and I'd seen we'd got rid of some flops and players Rafa wasn't keen on in Merino, Mbemba, Sels and Mitro and brought in Rondon, Muto, Ki, Schar, Fernandez, Dubravka, Almiron and Kenedy this season I'd say we've actually done pretty good business and only one of them topped that £20m mark.

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Re: Ashley and Rafa - Marriage of convenience

Post by Bodacious Benny » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:40 am

Colly wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:13 am
Bodacious Benny wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:33 am
Yes all sounds about right, Benitez knows the game that he has been playing but I'm not sure that Ashley will blink. I can't see him giving Rafa the assurances or backing that he wants, and we'll continue to try and scrape survival on the cheap (if we stay up). It's taken Ashley a season and a half back in the PL to make the token Almiron signing which doesn't negate the lack of investment under his regime. Every PL standard now is £20m minimum. We need to also pay money for experienced players. Rondon at 30 for example, 30 isn't old for a PL footballer now. They can easily have a decent 5/6/7 years left in them (Glenn Murray shows that...), coaching, sports science, diet etc. has all come such a long way that it's not the case now where you get to your early 30's and think about retirement unless you have had an injury plagued career.

He's not everyone's cup of tea but I definitely want Rafa to stay. He gets the club, he gets the fans, he understands what it means and invests his efforts into every area of the club. For the criticism of his style of play I think he's found a formation that works for us and had we been allowed to sign better players we'd be much higher up the league playing this way.
See I agree with most of this, but not the bolded. I'm sure that probably is the average fee at this stage but good players can be found at far less than that. Look at Bournemouth getting David Brooks for less than £10m. He wasn't exactly an unknown and would have been a great fit for us. Good scouting can save an absolute fortune and I'd rather a £6m gem than a £25m flop.

Honestly if I didn't know about player values and I'd seen we'd got rid of some flops and players Rafa wasn't keen on in Merino, Mbemba, Sels and Mitro and brought in Rondon, Muto, Ki, Schar, Fernandez, Dubravka, Almiron and Kenedy this season I'd say we've actually done pretty good business and only one of them topped that £20m mark.
True, but I'd say Brooks was a bit of an unknown quantity. By the age of 20 he'd only played 20-30 games for Sheffield Utd as far as I know and there wasn't really much way of knowing that he'd turn out to be so good (I don't recall them having much competition when they signed him). You can definitely get decent value, and we have done with some players like the ones that you've mentioned, but general rule of thumb would still be that quality will cost money more often than not. That said, I wouldn't want to be Bournemouth and spending £15m on Ibe and £19m on Solanke so it can be tricky!
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Re: Ashley and Rafa - Marriage of convenience

Post by lassassinblanc » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:46 am

Can someone post the whole article not signing up to Telegraph
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Re: Ashley and Rafa - Marriage of convenience

Post by Bodacious Benny » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:55 am

lassassinblanc wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:46 am
Can someone post the whole article not signing up to Telegraph
I didn't have to sign up, just clicked the link and read it. <scratch>
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Re: Ashley and Rafa - Marriage of convenience

Post by TBC » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:38 pm

lassassinblanc wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:46 am
Can someone post the whole article not signing up to Telegraph
It works on your phone <ok>
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Re: Ashley and Rafa - Marriage of convenience

Post by Colly » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:30 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:40 am
Colly wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:13 am


See I agree with most of this, but not the bolded. I'm sure that probably is the average fee at this stage but good players can be found at far less than that. Look at Bournemouth getting David Brooks for less than £10m. He wasn't exactly an unknown and would have been a great fit for us. Good scouting can save an absolute fortune and I'd rather a £6m gem than a £25m flop.

Honestly if I didn't know about player values and I'd seen we'd got rid of some flops and players Rafa wasn't keen on in Merino, Mbemba, Sels and Mitro and brought in Rondon, Muto, Ki, Schar, Fernandez, Dubravka, Almiron and Kenedy this season I'd say we've actually done pretty good business and only one of them topped that £20m mark.
True, but I'd say Brooks was a bit of an unknown quantity. By the age of 20 he'd only played 20-30 games for Sheffield Utd as far as I know and there wasn't really much way of knowing that he'd turn out to be so good (I don't recall them having much competition when they signed him). You can definitely get decent value, and we have done with some players like the ones that you've mentioned, but general rule of thumb would still be that quality will cost money more often than not. That said, I wouldn't want to be Bournemouth and spending £15m on Ibe and £19m on Solanke so it can be tricky!
All of his Sheffield United appearance were last season though, he'd played essentially a full season at Championship level at the age of 20. Compared to some of the signings we make that's not an unknown, and it's somewhere we really should be scouting. Ditto for Joe Bryan too, £6m for a left back.

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Re: Ashley and Rafa - Marriage of convenience

Post by lassassinblanc » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:35 pm

TBC wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:38 pm
lassassinblanc wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:46 am
Can someone post the whole article not signing up to Telegraph
It works on your phone <ok>
Nope still asks to log in, might be that I'm Outside UK
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Re: Ashley and Rafa - Marriage of convenience

Post by lassassinblanc » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:42 pm

Nice Article in the Guardian interviewing Atsu speaks very highly of Rafa

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... el-benitez
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Re: Ashley and Rafa - Marriage of convenience

Post by Captain Obvious » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:48 am

I like Atsu. I think he's improved a lot under Rafa, and still improving. He doesn't offer much coming forwards but he works hard defensively and is a useful squad player. Probably not on much either.

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Re: Ashley and Rafa - Marriage of convenience

Post by Remember Colo » Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:54 pm

Captain Obvious wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:48 am
I like Atsu. I think he's improved a lot under Rafa, and still improving. He doesn't offer much coming forwards but he works hard defensively and is a useful squad player. Probably not on much either.
Unfortunately we have too many players of that ilk, and not enough who actually produce goals. Which I don`t meant as a direct criticism of Rafa, it goes back a lot further than him.

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Re: Ashley and Rafa - Marriage of convenience

Post by Diego21 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:48 pm

Rafa speaks today for the Spanish press. Not any new...

He plays every match as the last match. The situation for a new contract is in stand by because he wants a project to enter in Top8 and Ashley doesn't give him.
Sorry for my bad english, I am spanish!

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Re: Ashley and Rafa - Marriage of convenience

Post by Scalabrine » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:00 pm

Diego21 wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:48 pm
Rafa speaks today for the Spanish press. Not any new...

He plays every match as the last match. The situation for a new contract is in stand by because he wants a project to enter in Top8 and Ashley doesn't give him.
https://www.marca.com/futbol/premier-le ... b45d1.html

4:37 to 4:38 and 4:42 to 4:43.

A glass of water, please.
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Re: Ashley and Rafa - Marriage of convenience

Post by lassassinblanc » Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:28 am

Puel sacked by Leicester, hopefully they don't sniff too much around Rafa
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Re: Ashley and Rafa - Marriage of convenience

Post by Bodacious Benny » Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:41 am

lassassinblanc wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:28 am
Puel sacked by Leicester, hopefully they don't sniff too much around Rafa
He’ll be near the top of their list.
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Re: Ashley and Rafa - Marriage of convenience

Post by lassassinblanc » Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:42 am

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:41 am
lassassinblanc wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:28 am
Puel sacked by Leicester, hopefully they don't sniff too much around Rafa
He’ll be near the top of their list.
Rodgers seems to be early favourite.
Last edited by lassassinblanc on Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Ashley and Rafa - Marriage of convenience

Post by Bodacious Benny » Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:43 am

lassassinblanc wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:42 am
Bodacious Benny wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:41 am


He’ll be near the top of their list.
Rodgers seems to be early favourite
Hope they get him just so that we aren’t linked in summer...
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Re: Ashley and Rafa - Marriage of convenience

Post by lassassinblanc » Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:44 am

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:43 am
lassassinblanc wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:42 am


Rodgers seems to be early favourite
Hope they get him just so that we aren’t linked in summer...
Hopefully any interest in him will force Ashley to agree to Rafa's termd
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Re: Ashley and Rafa - Marriage of convenience

Post by lassassinblanc » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:09 am

Looks like Rodgers is set for Leicester, wonder if there would be any interest from Celtic for Rafa come the end of the season if (when) he leaves.
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