Matty Longstaff's contract conundrum

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Re: New squad after potential takeover

Post by Colly » Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:37 am

What I'd also say is that it's all well and good to be a fan of the club, but if the club doesn't value him enough to offer a contract six months ago how loyal should he be? Hell, as fans we know how badly run this club is, why should a young player have to cope with that?

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Re: New squad after potential takeover

Post by Beatski » Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:42 am

Yeah it's a job first and foremost.


In fact he's in a far more volatile situation than with a normal job; if you don't make the move when your stock is high you might not ever get as good an offer again. How many times has a promising young player fallen off for whatever reason (e.g. his brother now Vs last season). Set yourself up for life or risk never getting that out of 'loyalty', loyalty that your employer (and the fans) won't repay the instant you stop performing.

Easy to take the high road when you're an onlooker but 99.99% of people would jump ship in the same situation.

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Re: New squad after potential takeover

Post by Bodacious Benny » Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:58 am

lassassinblanc wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:11 am
Toondes wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:48 am

Well what irks me is last year he came out and said he loves this club , so proud , honoured , supporter etc etc . It’s all hollow. How about showing some loyalty to an employer that’s has nurtured him. He’s been offered fantastic terms for someone who is anaverage youth player . I know what I’d do in his position but I have morals. It’s not just him , it’s all footballers in general. Money obsessed .
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out son.
This is something that really irks me.

Normal person in job they love 40k pa gets offered new job doing same thing 50k pa no one bats an eyelid

Footballer 40k pw gets offered new job doing same thing 50k pw sell out and is money obsessed


Yes footballers are well payed no doubt about it but you have to remember a normal career can last 30-40 years on average, a footballers is 12-15 years and at any time during that time period an injury can end it all.

One thing which is strongly encouraged now to young players especially at the clubs I've worked at is to have a backup career and be prepared for retirement early.

The amount of people in football who go from earning 50pw to earning nothing and in a few years being broke is highly documented.

Also what a lot of people don't consider is that a hell of a lot of footballers give majority of their wages to charities . For example (I won't name names) I know of current international player who plays for a premier league club who earns 70k a week(after tax) he gives 38k of that to a number of charities in England and his home country.

I know for a fact that when this player was in negotiations for a new contract he was pushing for more money so he could give more back.

So while I'll agree there probably are footballers who are money hungry but for every one of them there is 1000 who give more back then they get.
Not denying there will be some, but I'd say that a 'hell of a lot of footballers giving the majority of their wages to charities' is a bit of a stretch. Unquestionably a lot of footballers do give a lot to charity, but it won't be the majority of their wages, I'd be pretty sure of that.

I don't judge anyone for taking more money elsewhere, football is a job - go to the highest bidder if that's what they want and good luck to them. A bang average footballer in the top flight will still earn upwards of £1.5m per year (assuming they're on £30k per week, which is low by PL standards). It would take the average person 50 years to earn that money (if they were on around £30k per year). That's why the whole 'short career' or 'injury' argument doesn't mean anything to me. They only have to play for 2 or 3 years to be in an immeasurably better position that any of us are ever likely to be in. Obviously I'm referring to top flight players in leagues such as England, I'm sure in Norway the wages are far far lower.

I have sympathy for players in lower leagues as they're in a different predicament potentially with injury etc.
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Re: New squad after potential takeover

Post by Toondes » Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:12 am

Beatski wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:42 am
Yeah it's a job first and foremost.


In fact he's in a far more volatile situation than with a normal job; if you don't make the move when your stock is high you might not ever get as good an offer again. How many times has a promising young player fallen off for whatever reason (e.g. his brother now Vs last season). Set yourself up for life or risk never getting that out of 'loyalty', loyalty that your employer (and the fans) won't repay the instant you stop performing.

Easy to take the high road when you're an onlooker but 99.99% of people would jump ship in the same situation.
Whilst understand that ; I’d argue £20k a week for 5!years is fairly generous . Clearly it’s just me
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Re: New squad after potential takeover

Post by Sanchino » Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:34 am

Udinese - Sunny/cultural italy / team that is in mid-table/lower tier fighting for relegation right now but with some decent players such as Seko Forfana, Rodrigo De Paul and Kevin Lasanga. Team is affiliated with Watford and Granada FC (potential to go to any of these two in the future).

Seria A - League which is slower, less intense and physical than the Prem but could argue more technical and tactical.

Wages - £30,000 a week which is around €33,500 in euros.

Playing time - For the amount they are offering and the length of the contract to me it seems like they want him to be one of there main midfielders and will start him from the get go so he will be a regular with them and I think he would thrive in this type of league with his industrious style of play, box-to-box midfielder, energetic, hard-working and a eye for a goal he'll do well playing in a 3-5-2 formation having a license to go forward and support the strikers. In Italy he'll be called a centrocampista which is what I described above while two holding midfielders compliment him like a deep-lying playmaker like Pirlo and then they'll be a il Mediano which is a defensive midfielder who does all the tackling and hard-work like Gattuso. That's why Italian teams are interested in him, it's just a shame it's Udiense as he was linked with AC Milan a couple months back and I think he'll fit in well even if he goes to a Top 7 in Seria A as he has all the right attributes to be a success in Italy.

Saying all of this.. I would love him to stay with us as he has great potential and think he could be a future regular plus him being home-grown and from the academy it would be a shame to let him slip and then go on to be a success somewhere else. I could see him why he would be tempted.. I mean going from £850 to 30k a week is incredible (if its true) but wouldn't playing for your home town team for a bit less really make much of a difference? It's not like there offering 50k+ or some ridiculous amount that would influence you to the point money was the priority. Next season we don't know what could happen with this takeover but there will be a place for him the squad even if we go on a spending spree.. the Longstaff brothers have to stay they bleed black and white. <diva>

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Re: New squad after potential takeover

Post by originallad » Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:47 am

Toondes wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:12 am
Beatski wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:42 am
Yeah it's a job first and foremost.


In fact he's in a far more volatile situation than with a normal job; if you don't make the move when your stock is high you might not ever get as good an offer again. How many times has a promising young player fallen off for whatever reason (e.g. his brother now Vs last season). Set yourself up for life or risk never getting that out of 'loyalty', loyalty that your employer (and the fans) won't repay the instant you stop performing.

Easy to take the high road when you're an onlooker but 99.99% of people would jump ship in the same situation.
Whilst understand that ; I’d argue £20k a week for 5!years is fairly generous . Clearly it’s just me
That's 2.6 million pounds after tax in 5 years playing for the team you've supported all your life. That's without add ons, sponsorship and a potential wage increase. And he'd only be 25 after that. Aye not bad really.

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Re: New squad after potential takeover

Post by lassassinblanc » Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:54 am

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:58 am
lassassinblanc wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:11 am


This is something that really irks me.

Normal person in job they love 40k pa gets offered new job doing same thing 50k pa no one bats an eyelid

Footballer 40k pw gets offered new job doing same thing 50k pw sell out and is money obsessed


Yes footballers are well payed no doubt about it but you have to remember a normal career can last 30-40 years on average, a footballers is 12-15 years and at any time during that time period an injury can end it all.

One thing which is strongly encouraged now to young players especially at the clubs I've worked at is to have a backup career and be prepared for retirement early.

The amount of people in football who go from earning 50pw to earning nothing and in a few years being broke is highly documented.

Also what a lot of people don't consider is that a hell of a lot of footballers give majority of their wages to charities . For example (I won't name names) I know of current international player who plays for a premier league club who earns 70k a week(after tax) he gives 38k of that to a number of charities in England and his home country.

I know for a fact that when this player was in negotiations for a new contract he was pushing for more money so he could give more back.

So while I'll agree there probably are footballers who are money hungry but for every one of them there is 1000 who give more back then they get.
Not denying there will be some, but I'd say that a 'hell of a lot of footballers giving the majority of their wages to charities' is a bit of a stretch. Unquestionably a lot of footballers do give a lot to charity, but it won't be the majority of their wages, I'd be pretty sure of that.

I don't judge anyone for taking more money elsewhere, football is a job - go to the highest bidder if that's what they want and good luck to them. A bang average footballer in the top flight will still earn upwards of £1.5m per year (assuming they're on £30k per week, which is low by PL standards). It would take the average person 50 years to earn that money (if they were on around £30k per year). That's why the whole 'short career' or 'injury' argument doesn't mean anything to me. They only have to play for 2 or 3 years to be in an immeasurably better position that any of us are ever likely to be in. Obviously I'm referring to top flight players in leagues such as England, I'm sure in Norway the wages are far far lower.

I have sympathy for players in lower leagues as they're in a different predicament potentially with injury etc.
You'd be surprised in regards to what players give back.

You have to take into account cost of living too. Not using that as an excuse. As of course footballers don't have to live in a 100k a month house for example but in comparison to Joe soap renting a 3 bed room house for 1.5k a month it would be somewhat similar in terms of earnings.

Of course PL wages are insane in comparison to other leagues I'm not arguing that.

But back to the above comparison how would Joe soap get on if after 10 years of earning 30k a year he moved into a job earning 15k a year. That's what majority of footballers do in terms of moving into coaching for example.
<ayo>

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Re: New squad after potential takeover

Post by Colly » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:11 pm

Are we signing Joe Soap?!?

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Re: New squad after potential takeover

Post by Toondes » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:18 pm

Colly wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:11 pm
Are we signing Joe Soap?!?
Couldn’t afford his wages
# stolen from nufc.com :)

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Re: New squad after potential takeover

Post by CIH » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:36 pm

But can he play left back?

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Re: New squad after potential takeover

Post by Beatski » Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:00 pm

surely he'd help us with keeping clean sheets

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Re: New squad after potential takeover

Post by Toondes » Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:01 pm

Beatski wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:00 pm
surely he'd help us with keeping clean sheets
Unless he gets dropped
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Re: New squad after potential takeover

Post by Bodacious Benny » Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:18 pm

Colly wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:11 pm
Are we signing Joe Soap?!?
If lassassinblanc has mentioned it, then no <roll>
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Re: New squad after potential takeover

Post by Beatski » Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:23 pm

Toondes wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:01 pm
Beatski wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:00 pm
surely he'd help us with keeping clean sheets
Unless he gets dropped
<laugh>

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Re: New squad after potential takeover

Post by Colback's Orange Tufts » Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:36 pm

Toondes wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:48 am
Colback's Orange Tufts wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:48 am


He's been offered two options and taking the better one. If I was offered a new job with 50% more I'd go. I've got no issue with it.

Why should he accept below the going rate for his services?
Well what irks me is last year he came out and said he loves this club , so proud , honoured , supporter etc etc . It’s all hollow. How about showing some loyalty to an employer that’s has nurtured him. He’s been offered fantastic terms for someone who is anaverage youth player . I know what I’d do in his position but I have morals. It’s not just him , it’s all footballers in general. Money obsessed .
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out son.
Loyalty to Ashley and the regime. Not for me. Agree to disagree.
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Re: New squad after potential takeover

Post by Remember Colo » Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:18 pm

I'd never demand that a player gives a "hometown discount". It's great when players do, but in this case, we're talking about a 50% increase (allegedly), and being at the relative bottom of the PL wage range. I imagine the more you love the club, the more the club is capable of disappointing you if you don't feel a similar sense of loyalty back.

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Re: New squad after potential takeover

Post by Colly » Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:27 pm

I'd also add he's in the odd position of being either stuck with more Ashley, or being a player about to break through at a team being taken over as a rich mans plaything. Neither of those are great for a young, unglamorous player, and you can look at the likes of Stephen Ireland and Michael Johnson (admittedly not helped by injury, but certainly unmotivated) as examples. He could stay and battle, but can he do that against a big money signing?

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Re: New squad after potential takeover

Post by Beatski » Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:34 pm

Colly wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:27 pm
I'd also add he's in the odd position of being either stuck with more Ashley, or being a player about to break through at a team being taken over as a rich mans plaything. Neither of those are great for a young, unglamorous player, and you can look at the likes of Stephen Ireland and Michael Johnson (admittedly not helped by injury, but certainly unmotivated) as examples. He could stay and battle, but can he do that against a big money signing?
hadnt considered that angle, great point

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Re: Matty Longstaff's contract conundrum

Post by Remember Colo » Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:52 pm

Agreed. I imagine he's asked for some kind of certainty regarding role and playing time, which he hasn't even had under Bruce. So why should he settle for lower wages somewhere where his career might even stagnate and cost him having a meaningful career in a top league? Don't get me wrong, it'd be a shame losing a promising local player, but I'll hardly blame him should he pursue an opportunity elsewhere, and it's also possible the club can't or shouldn't provide what he'd want to stay.

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Re: Matty Longstaff's contract conundrum

Post by ToonCraig » Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:05 pm

Wish there was some kind of sense in players wages and transfer fees while we are at it. Way ott.

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