Matty Longstaff's contract conundrum

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Re: Matty Longstaff's contract conundrum

Post by Don Sholeone » Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:20 pm

Sir Bobby wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:01 pm
Don Sholeone wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:43 pm
Bit late on the discussion, but I always find the wage increase comparison between players and your average joe a bit ridiculous. Of course your normal worker is going to go for a higher paid job because in most circumstances it will drastically improve your quality of life. If you are earning 20k per week you never have to worry about money ever again so the situation is completely different and that's where greed comes into it. I don't have any sympathy with anyone who has to wait 2 years to become a millionaire instead of 1.
Just to clarify, where does the greed line start in your opinion? At 5k per week? 10k?

It’s not immoral to take a contract that pays 50% more than another one offered. That’s completely normal and sensible, not some greedy manoeuvre.
Depends, if a player is going to be a huge part of a teams plans then I think it's fair for them to ask for a significant amount of money, in the case of matty 20K is a fantastic offer for someone in his current position, he's far from first choice atm but has the potential to break into the first team. He's still young and very raw though so it could go the other way for him. I think the offer he allegedly has would put him on par with Hayden.

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Re: Matty Longstaff's contract conundrum

Post by jpg » Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:47 pm

Don Sholeone wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:43 pm
Bit late on the discussion, but I always find the wage increase comparison between players and your average joe a bit ridiculous. Of course your normal worker is going to go for a higher paid job because in most circumstances it will drastically improve your quality of life. If you are earning 20k per week you never have to worry about money ever again so the situation is completely different and that's where greed comes into it. I don't have any sympathy with anyone who has to wait 2 years to become a millionaire instead of 1.
Unless you get a career ending injury very early on and have nothing to fall back on.

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Re: Matty Longstaff's contract conundrum

Post by Bodacious Benny » Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:56 pm

If you were on £30k a year for 50 years your career earnings and ability to live a normal life would be £1.5m.

If you’re a young player earning £20k a week you’d only need to be playing for 18 months to get that. Given the contract would be 4 or 5 years he’d have around £5m by the end of it so even if he got a career ending injury on day one he would never ever have to worry about money.
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Re: Matty Longstaff's contract conundrum

Post by Colback's Orange Tufts » Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:01 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:56 pm
If you were on £30k a year for 50 years your career earnings and ability to live a normal life would be £1.5m.

If you’re a young player earning £20k a week you’d only need to be playing for 18 months to get that. Given the contract would be 4 or 5 years he’d have around £5m by the end of it so even if he got a career ending injury on day one he would never ever have to worry about money.
Those are two very different post tax sums...
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Re: Matty Longstaff's contract conundrum

Post by Bodacious Benny » Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:04 pm

Still, even if he had £2.5m after tax he never has to work again if he doesn’t want to. Could live a perfectly good life. Also it’s incredibly rare for a young player to have a career ending injury at that age, so a 5 year contract on £20k a week would set anyone up for life.
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Re: Matty Longstaff's contract conundrum

Post by Cal » Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:05 pm

The Louis Theroux interview with Troy Deeney covers some interesting stuff about player earnings - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p08grz6g

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Re: Matty Longstaff's contract conundrum

Post by ALF » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:16 pm

If you're on £20k a week you don't rent a 2 bed semi though.

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Re: Matty Longstaff's contract conundrum

Post by Bodacious Benny » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:24 pm

ALF wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:16 pm
If you're on £20k a week you don't rent a 2 bed semi though.
They’ve got so divine right to living in mansions etc, my point more was that as soon as he signs a contract like that there’s a 99% chance he never has to worry about money again.
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Re: Matty Longstaff's contract conundrum

Post by ALF » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:39 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:24 pm
ALF wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:16 pm
If you're on £20k a week you don't rent a 2 bed semi though.
They’ve got so divine right to living in mansions etc, my point more was that as soon as he signs a contract like that there’s a 99% chance he never has to worry about money again.
I sort of agree. But it's not a coincidence that plenty of footballers end up bankrupt.

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Re: Matty Longstaff's contract conundrum

Post by Sir Bobby » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:39 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:24 pm
ALF wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:16 pm
If you're on £20k a week you don't rent a 2 bed semi though.
They’ve got so divine right to living in mansions etc, my point more was that as soon as he signs a contract like that there’s a 99% chance he never has to worry about money again.
On a five year, £20k a week contract you’d be lucky to take home £2.5m in total after agent fees, fines for various infractions, taxes etc.

That’s one divorce away from being a totally normal person.

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Re: Matty Longstaff's contract conundrum

Post by Bodacious Benny » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:28 pm

Sir Bobby wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:39 pm
Bodacious Benny wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:24 pm


They’ve got so divine right to living in mansions etc, my point more was that as soon as he signs a contract like that there’s a 99% chance he never has to worry about money again.
On a five year, £20k a week contract you’d be lucky to take home £2.5m in total after agent fees, fines for various infractions, taxes etc.

That’s one divorce away from being a totally normal person.
How horrendous <roll>
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Re: Matty Longstaff's contract conundrum

Post by Remember Colo » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:22 pm

I can also promise the number of people among your family and friends looking to you for help when you're on 20k a week is different than on 20k a year. Plus your local community and charities too. Also, most of these players, besides those who go into coaching or commentary have no other skills for post-playing work. When the rest of us were in school they were kicking the ball about. So they'd better make all the money they can in that 2-15 years, because there'll be no reason to employ them afterwards.

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Re: Matty Longstaff's contract conundrum

Post by Bodacious Benny » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:43 pm

Remember Colo wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:22 pm
I can also promise the number of people among your family and friends looking to you for help when you're on 20k a week is different than on 20k a year. Plus your local community and charities too. Also, most of these players, besides those who go into coaching or commentary have no other skills for post-playing work. When the rest of us were in school they were kicking the ball about. So they'd better make all the money they can in that 2-15 years, because there'll be no reason to employ them afterwards.
But again, they won't ever need to be employed even after 5 years let alone 15. And plenty of people leave school with absolutely zero skills and have to find whatever they can. I'm pretty sure PL players are insured too, so if in the 0.1% chance his career was ended young I'm sure he'd be exceptionally well compensated. Fact is, regardless of tax, family and whatever else, a player earning a meagre £20k a week for a few years will have earned far more money than most of us will earn while working 40 hour weeks for the best part of 50 years. If they're dumb enough to spunk their luck and money up the wall then that's up to them to live with the consequences in retirement.
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Re: Matty Longstaff's contract conundrum

Post by Bodacious Benny » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:46 pm

As an aside, why don't the FA offer some sort of training programme for retired pros to become referees?
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Re: Matty Longstaff's contract conundrum

Post by Remember Colo » Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:26 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:43 pm
Remember Colo wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:22 pm
I can also promise the number of people among your family and friends looking to you for help when you're on 20k a week is different than on 20k a year. Plus your local community and charities too. Also, most of these players, besides those who go into coaching or commentary have no other skills for post-playing work. When the rest of us were in school they were kicking the ball about. So they'd better make all the money they can in that 2-15 years, because there'll be no reason to employ them afterwards.
But again, they won't ever need to be employed even after 5 years let alone 15. And plenty of people leave school with absolutely zero skills and have to find whatever they can. I'm pretty sure PL players are insured too, so if in the 0.1% chance his career was ended young I'm sure he'd be exceptionally well compensated. Fact is, regardless of tax, family and whatever else, a player earning a meagre £20k a week for a few years will have earned far more money than most of us will earn while working 40 hour weeks for the best part of 50 years. If they're dumb enough to spunk their luck and money up the wall then that's up to them to live with the consequences in retirement.
And I'm not saying they shouldn't live with the consequences if they're irresponsible with their money, but it is why I don't blame them for trying to make as much as they can while they can. I'd have less patience for a player holding out for more when nobody is willing to pay them more. But I'll never blame someone for taking the best financial offer (and in his case, he's hardly had a chance this season, and if the takeover happens, probably even less going forward). Plus, I think it's worth distinguishing between wages that will set you up for life, and wages that will set up future generations of your family - and I can get players trying to achieve the latter.

Plus, I'll go in another direction. People complain about player wages, but if we're going to pick between the millionaires and billionaires, I'll always side with the players over the oil oligarchs, and the reason agents and players have gotten the power they have is because the owners have been unchecked for years wanting to prove who is the richest and most willing to win.

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Re: Matty Longstaff's contract conundrum

Post by Sir Bobby » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:30 pm

Spot on. Considering they provide a service that people clearly absolutely love, I find it so weird and bitter when people complain that they’re overpaid, greedy and this, that, and the other. They provide a service that very few can provide. Heaven forbid they make the most of that and get paid a fair wage for it.

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Re: Matty Longstaff's contract conundrum

Post by Don Sholeone » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:04 pm

Reality is Matty is a 5th choice at best midfielder in a team that is only playing 2 CM, he's shown a few glimpses of being a decent player but nothing that takes your breath away. It's not like he has world beaters ahead of him yet he still only gets a few token appearances. If Watford/Udinese want to pay 30k a week for him then good riddance, we can probably get better for those kind of wages. Also previously pointed out he would be earning more than Hayden who is arguably our most important CM at the moment. So to sum up, Matty Longstaff isn't worth 30k a week for our club.

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Re: Matty Longstaff's contract conundrum

Post by Colly » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:12 pm

As a slight counter argument to that I think he's a bit different to the other four in that you can play him in a more advanced role to link with the front 3 and have felt Bruce should have done it more for a while.

Also Hayden needs a pay rise...

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Re: Matty Longstaff's contract conundrum

Post by Bodacious Benny » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:51 pm

Sir Bobby wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:30 pm
Spot on. Considering they provide a service that people clearly absolutely love, I find it so weird and bitter when people complain that they’re overpaid, greedy and this, that, and the other. They provide a service that very few can provide. Heaven forbid they make the most of that and get paid a fair wage for it.
I’m not saying he’s greedy, nor that I’m bitter. I’m in the camp that we’ve offered more than fair money for his [lack of] experience to date, if we wants to move somewhere else to get more money then good luck to him.

I would massively disagree with anyone providing a service people enjoy and getting six figures salaries in a lot of cases per week is ‘a fair wage’ tho <laugh>

That’s not unique to footballers tho.
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Re: Matty Longstaff's contract conundrum

Post by Sir Bobby » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:57 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:51 pm
Sir Bobby wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:30 pm
Spot on. Considering they provide a service that people clearly absolutely love, I find it so weird and bitter when people complain that they’re overpaid, greedy and this, that, and the other. They provide a service that very few can provide. Heaven forbid they make the most of that and get paid a fair wage for it.
I’m not saying he’s greedy, nor that I’m bitter. I’m in the camp that we’ve offered more than fair money for his [lack of] experience to date, if we wants to move somewhere else to get more money then good luck to him.

I would massively disagree with anyone providing a service people enjoy and getting six figures salaries in a lot of cases per week is ‘a fair wage’ tho <laugh>

That’s not unique to footballers tho.
To clarify, I don’t think you have been/sounded bitter, but that people further down that line of thinking often are <gent>

As for fair wages: if they bring in hundreds of millions of pounds of revenue (which they do) then they deserve a representative % of that (which they tend to get). If you want to debate whether entertainment should feature so highly in people’s desires that’s a different story, but the fact is that it does and getting a fair share of the profits is just that: fair.

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