NUFC Minor/Untrusted Transfer Rumours (Summer 2020)

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Re: NUFC Minor/Untrusted Transfer Rumours (Summer 2020)

Post by Bodacious Benny » Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:58 pm

lassassinblanc wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:51 pm
Bodacious Benny wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:40 pm


Saw the Yedlin to Southampton link on Twitter, would be a strange move. No way in a million years he'd play ahead of Walker-Peters so he'd be going there just to sit on the bench.
That's why I put the ?
As they have KWP and also Valery there too (though I think the latter is injured)
Haha oh right I thought the ? was more of a “have you heard”
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Re: NUFC Minor/Untrusted Transfer Rumours (Summer 2020)

Post by lassassinblanc » Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:07 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:58 pm
lassassinblanc wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:51 pm


That's why I put the ?
As they have KWP and also Valery there too (though I think the latter is injured)
Haha oh right I thought the ? was more of a “have you heard”
Should have been more specific alright I apologise
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Re: NUFC Minor/Untrusted Transfer Rumours (Summer 2020)

Post by ALF » Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:41 pm

lassassinblanc wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:35 pm
Colly wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:09 pm


He can't perform the basic role of a central midfielder, what else do you need? We've got plenty of players with a slightly shorter passing range who would counter that by playing 30 yards higher up the field. Every other club he's been at has found him out and shipped him off, for some reason we've failed to do the same and it's had an enormous impact on our slow, low possession style of play for years.

I think I've said it before that Joey Barton had a similar style of play for us (albeit far better), and the way we accommodated him was to shuffle him to the wing so he didn't leave massive gaps in the centre of the park but he was still there for setpieces and to whip in the occasional cross.
A few points

1) He signed for Liverpool from Charlton when he was 18 as he was considered a decent prospect he left for Swansea more because he wanted guaranteed game time, Liverpool had only given him a new contract a year earlier so very much wanted to keep him. Same he had 3 decent years at Swansea were he earned an England call up. Again they didn't want to sell but the prospect of moving to a bigger club albeit one in free fall was something they couldn't deny him.

2) He is performing the same role he has for the last 10 years in that he's a deep lying playmaker, his job in the team is to drop into that 3rd of the pitch to get the ball forward, again as stated other players are there to do other jobs such as winning the ball back.

3) in terms of slow play it is again other players as well as Shelvey's to up the tempo. So many times over the last few years he has picked up the ball and couldn't make a pass as no one was making a run, thankfully Wilson seems to have offered him this outlet and it's only a matter of time before he picks him out (actually has a few times but to no avail)
You know that a new contract doesn't mean someone wants to keep a player, you give someone a contract so you can get a fee for them.

He had some good spells at Swansea but he was 23 when he last played for England, he was still seen as a young player who will improve. The fact he's worse now than he was then isn't a good thing.

He's a very deep lying playmaker playing alongside a defensive midfielder. Any decent deep lying player will constantly be on the move and showing for the ball, not just when the CB's have it. If you watched clips of Shelvey alongside Jordan Henderson, Harry Winks or Jack Wilshere from a few years ago you'd see a huge difference.

Players aren't constantly going to make run for someone to play 70 yard balls. As shown by Longstaff to Fraser against Newport, players are more likely to make runs in behind if the pass is being made slightly higher up the pitch than between our CB's. His issue is he can't play under pressure at all. That's why he drops so deep to play and it's why he doesn't show for the ball inside, he'll always drop 15 yards before wanting the pass.

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Re: NUFC Minor/Untrusted Transfer Rumours (Summer 2020)

Post by Colly » Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:45 pm

lassassinblanc wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:35 pm
Colly wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:09 pm


He can't perform the basic role of a central midfielder, what else do you need? We've got plenty of players with a slightly shorter passing range who would counter that by playing 30 yards higher up the field. Every other club he's been at has found him out and shipped him off, for some reason we've failed to do the same and it's had an enormous impact on our slow, low possession style of play for years.

I think I've said it before that Joey Barton had a similar style of play for us (albeit far better), and the way we accommodated him was to shuffle him to the wing so he didn't leave massive gaps in the centre of the park but he was still there for setpieces and to whip in the occasional cross.
A few points

1) He signed for Liverpool from Charlton when he was 18 as he was considered a decent prospect he left for Swansea more because he wanted guaranteed game time, Liverpool had only given him a new contract a year earlier so very much wanted to keep him. Same he had 3 decent years at Swansea were he earned an England call up. Again they didn't want to sell but the prospect of moving to a bigger club albeit one in free fall was something they couldn't deny him.

2) He is performing the same role he has for the last 10 years in that he's a deep lying playmaker, his job in the team is to drop into that 3rd of the pitch to get the ball forward, again as stated other players are there to do other jobs such as winning the ball back.

3) in terms of slow play it is again other players as well as Shelvey's to up the tempo. So many times over the last few years he has picked up the ball and couldn't make a pass as no one was making a run, thankfully Wilson seems to have offered him this outlet and it's only a matter of time before he picks him out (actually has a few times but to no avail)
I'm sorry but on 2 that simply isn't a role that can exist in anything but the very best clubs, and even they tend not to have one. A playmaker who plays in his own final third but won't do even the most basic defensive work of tracking his opposite centre mid is a liability. Even Pirlo could carry the ball forward, and Shelvey is no Pirlo.

On 3 what runs are you expecting if the ball is in your own penalty area? You can't do anything other than straight forward and hope for a lob over the top and most centre halfs can play that pass up the channel. I agree entirely we've lacked intelligent runners for a long time, but we're completely limited by having a playmaker who can't carry the ball over the halfway line. We literally remove a passing option by dragging a midfielder back into our defence while in possession which is absurd.

Add to that his clear lack of fitness and the fact his setpieces are garbage and he's a player who should be nowhere near our first team.

As a single note of defense, he had a run at the latter half of the 17/18 season where he suddenly looked motivated and actually had a positive influence for once, helping us get into that comfortable tenth spot. Personally I think he's coasted on that ever since, which I think sums up the player. Do one good thing now and again, and that's his job done even if he's actively harming the side with inaction. You can get away with a winger not putting in a shift occasionally, but you can't carry a central midfielder.

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Re: NUFC Minor/Untrusted Transfer Rumours (Summer 2020)

Post by overseasTOON » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:26 pm

I just saw a private jet flying north so it might be our cheap French league striker or just a coincidence as I live fairly close to Biggin Hill.

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Re: NUFC Minor/Untrusted Transfer Rumours (Summer 2020)

Post by Bodacious Benny » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:29 pm

overseasTOON wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:26 pm
I just saw a private jet flying north so it might be our cheap French league striker or just a coincidence as I live fairly close to Biggin Hill.
Maybe it’s the Saudis back for their takeover <roll>
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Re: NUFC Minor/Untrusted Transfer Rumours (Summer 2020)

Post by lassassinblanc » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:39 pm

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Re: NUFC Minor/Untrusted Transfer Rumours (Summer 2020)

Post by CIH » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:15 pm


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Re: NUFC Minor/Untrusted Transfer Rumours (Summer 2020)

Post by Captain Obvious » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:25 pm

Look the only advantage I can see is it keeps both loan slots free for January when it will become clearler where we need to strengthen based on form and injuries and potentially there could be better players available, especially with 6 months to the Euros. You only get two slots, if Bruce didn't think there was anyone out there who he wanted then no point wasting one for the sake of it.

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Re: NUFC Minor/Untrusted Transfer Rumours (Summer 2020)

Post by Remember Colo » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:43 pm

Captain Obvious wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:25 pm
Look the only advantage I can see is it keeps both loan slots free for January when it will become clearler where we need to strengthen based on form and injuries and potentially there could be better players available, especially with 6 months to the Euros. You only get two slots, if Bruce didn't think there was anyone out there who he wanted then no point wasting one for the sake of it.
Agree with the general point, though I'll keep banging the drum that we can spend all the money in the world on forwards and full backs, but until we get a more skilled CM pairing, every week is going to be a crapshoot. Though I would be curious to see Hendrick played more centrally - because he seems more suited in a Shelvey-like role than the wing, especially given the wing options we already have.

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Re: NUFC Minor/Untrusted Transfer Rumours (Summer 2020)

Post by CIH » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:49 pm

Looks like that's the lot. Obviously injuries are always an issue, and there are a couple of notable weaknesses still, but overall I think we've done positive business this window. Going forward, assuming every one is fit, I'd like to see something like this:

<dubravka>
<manq> <lascelles> <schar> <lewis>
<hendrick> <hayden>
<fraser> <almiron> <saintmaximin>
<wilson>


<darlow> <fernandez> <farth> <longstaff> <shelvey> <murph> <joelinton>


With Ritchie, MLongstaff, Carroll, Yedlin and Gayle rotating into the bench/first team as and when needed. Joelinton is looking better behind Wilson, and I'm hoping he manages to turn his Newcastle career around a bit. He'll never be a 40m player, or at least I'll be very surprised, but hopefully not a complete dud.

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Re: NUFC Minor/Untrusted Transfer Rumours (Summer 2020)

Post by Bodacious Benny » Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:02 pm

Yeah I’m quite happy tbf considering we were never going to got out and spend £70m-£80m like the likes of Villa and Leeds have both done.

Wilson and Fraser add quality in attack, Hendrick adds experience in midfield, Lewis is a promising LB.

When Clark is back we’re covered at CB (Dummett too). I’d really like to have kept Lejeune over Schar personally but I get the argument he needs regular games to get fit.

Captain Obvious makes a good point about January. There will likely be some very good players available on loan who want match time to help them get a spot in their national team for the Euros so gives us some options potentially.
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Re: NUFC Minor/Untrusted Transfer Rumours (Summer 2020)

Post by Sanchino » Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:19 pm

CIH wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:49 pm
Looks like that's the lot. Obviously injuries are always an issue, and there are a couple of notable weaknesses still, but overall I think we've done positive business this window. Going forward, assuming every one is fit, I'd like to see something like this:

<dubravka>
<manq> <lascelles> <schar> <lewis>
<hendrick> <hayden>
<fraser> <almiron> <saintmaximin>
<wilson>


<darlow> <fernandez> <farth> <longstaff> <shelvey> <murph> <joelinton>


With Ritchie, MLongstaff, Carroll, Yedlin and Gayle rotating into the bench/first team as and when needed. Joelinton is looking better behind Wilson, and I'm hoping he manages to turn his Newcastle career around a bit. He'll never be a 40m player, or at least I'll be very surprised, but hopefully not a complete dud.
Very well said. <applause>

We also have the likes of Clark, Dummet, etc in reserve <ok>

A fully fit & firing trio of ASM, MIGGY & FRASER BEHIND WILSON... <run> <run> <run> Paceeeee, skill, unpredictability & finishing. Dare I say cheeky Europa League challenge? <diva> <awe> <whistle>

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Re: NUFC Minor/Untrusted Transfer Rumours (Summer 2020)

Post by lassassinblanc » Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:26 pm

Jack Wilshire available on free transfer
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Re: NUFC Minor/Untrusted Transfer Rumours (Summer 2020)

Post by Colly » Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:35 pm

lassassinblanc wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:26 pm
Jack Wilshire available on free transfer
Mate, there are other threads...

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Re: NUFC Minor/Untrusted Transfer Rumours (Summer 2020)

Post by Captain Obvious » Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:25 am

Players can still move from the PL to the EFL OR VICE VERSA until 16th October. Players cannot move between PL clubs or from abroad to PL clubs. So the likes of Troy Deeney, Josh King etc could still get a PL move.....

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Re: NUFC Minor/Untrusted Transfer Rumours (Summer 2020)

Post by lassassinblanc » Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:35 am

Captain Obvious wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:25 am
Players can still move from the PL to the EFL OR VICE VERSA until 16th October. Players cannot move between PL clubs or from abroad to PL clubs. So the likes of Troy Deeney, Josh King etc could still get a PL move.....
So you're telling me operation bring Bournemouth to Ritchie can still be in place
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Re: NUFC Minor/Untrusted Transfer Rumours (Summer 2020)

Post by lassassinblanc » Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:36 am

Colly wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:35 pm
lassassinblanc wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:26 pm
Jack Wilshire available on free transfer
Mate, there are other threads...
Joking of course, but free transfers are allowed

Danny Welbeck just released by Watford might be worth a punt
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Re: NUFC Minor/Untrusted Transfer Rumours (Summer 2020)

Post by Colly » Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:09 pm

lassassinblanc wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:36 am
Colly wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:35 pm


Mate, there are other threads...
Joking of course, but free transfers are allowed
I know, I meant that we'd discussed Wilshere in the Other Clubs thread, and you put the Vilca news in here when he'd had his own thread for a while.

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Re: NUFC Minor/Untrusted Transfer Rumours (Summer 2020)

Post by Sanchino » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:18 pm

lassassinblanc wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:36 am
Colly wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:35 pm


Mate, there are other threads...
Joking of course, but free transfers are allowed

Danny Welbeck just released by Watford might be worth a punt
I'll take a punt on Welbeck you know.. never has been prolific but he's strong, decent in the air, athletic, mobile & versatile (can cover ST/SS/LW/RW).. if he's on reasonable wages, surely worth it? Either that or go for Sturridge who's also a free agent.. <whistle>

Would love someone like Josh King.. maybe a loan with obligation to buy next summer? Not only is a decent player but can link up with his old pals Wilson & Fraser again. <love>

Edit : Just checked other decent free agents are Pato, Gotze, Kagawa & Fabio Borini :bandit: <whistle> <run> <run>

Ben Arfa, Mandzukic, Clyne, Garay, Mariappa & Souare all free agents to... :bandit:

If we want a CB/RB/LB cover we should for either Clyne/Mariappa.. Not world beaters or anything but would add depth to the squad & Premier League experience. I'll take Gotze / Kagawa on reasonable wages.. Ben Arfa / Mandzukic would never happen but would be great <diva> <awe>

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