OLD PC Games?

[Donkey Toon]

And me. Civ4 is good too. Less said about Civ5 the better!

Woah, that bad? I wouldn't mind hearing what went wrong, if you dont mind.

Don't know where to start fella.

They have totally dumbed the game down. Techonolgy advancement, city management and land development options have all been reduced massively and simplified. Military units are also massively reduced and you can only put one unit on a square at a time, ie no stacking. It is also due to map sizes impossible to build big empires ... you will be lucky to build about eight or nine cities before running out of space.

Religion has been removed as have the standard civics options you get. Instead they have brought in a cultural development idea, split into a number of categories. You develop them over time and once earned they become a civic/cultural asset for you.

Instead of barbarian civs you get neutral states who you use diplomacy with to bring to your side. This is probably the only new idea I actually approve of. They are pretty fickle though and keeping them on board costs a fortune, but you get benefits back in return.

Other than the neutral states idea the whole thing is a mess from start to finish. It is the simplifying of the game that ruins it the most though. I don't know what they were thinking because they had to know that anybody brought up on the older harder variants wasn't going to take to an easier version.

[Blue & Maroon]

You seem good DT, i'm pretty terrible Best game i've had was with Japan, ruled the Pacific, Asia, The Middle East, half of the Soviet Union with the Germans and Africa. Managed to get an early peace with America as they randomly declared war on the Soviets and Germans simultaneously and didn't join the allies randomly (later declared war on Britain ). Very tempted to go play now

[skalpel]

Don't know where to start fella.

They have totally dumbed the game down. Techonolgy advancement, city management and land development options have all been reduced massively and simplified. Military units are also massively reduced and you can only put one unit on a square at a time, ie no stacking. It is also due to map sizes impossible to build big empires ... you will be lucky to build about eight or nine cities before running out of space.

Religion has been removed as have the standard civics options you get. Instead they have brought in a cultural development idea, split into a number of categories. You develop them over time and once earned they become a civic/cultural asset for you.

Instead of barbarian civs you get neutral states who you use diplomacy with to bring to your side. This is probably the only new idea I actually approve of. They are pretty fickle though and keeping them on board costs a fortune, but you get benefits back in return.

Other than the neutral states idea the whole thing is a mess from start to finish. It is the simplifying of the game that ruins it the most though. I don't know what they were thinking because they had to know that anybody brought up on the older harder variants wasn't going to take to an easier version.

Wow, doesn't even sound like the same game. What the hell were they thinking getting rid of stacks? That is one of the hallmarks of the series. Culutral Development idea sounds a bit weird, is that the only way you can build wonders or other cultural city advancements?
Replacement of barbarian civs must also be a bit weird in the early days, why the hell would there be neutral states when you have club-weilding warriors? Cheers for the warning, I was actually considering getting it some time.

[skalpel]

But Skalps....

You can turn the dialogue off & certainly on the xbox version you can switch between the old & new version !

Don't we already have an retro gaming thread?
*edit* that's old school online gaming.

It's the principle of it that I hate really. If I was going to turn it all off, I'd just go for the original which I still have anyway. It's like Lucas adding more and more modern crap to the original Star Wars films every few years. Sure, you can still watch the originals but you still know that they've been ruthlessly defecated upon.

[Donkey Toon]

You seem good DT, i'm pretty terrible Best game i've had was with Japan, ruled the Pacific, Asia, The Middle East, half of the Soviet Union with the Germans and Africa. Managed to get an early peace with America as they randomly declared war on the Soviets and Germans simultaneously and didn't join the allies randomly (later declared war on Britain ). Very tempted to go play now

It's only practice mate I've been playing since Hearts of Iron 1 came out so i've had plenty of time to pick up strategic tips. Sounds like you played a good game as Japan so you definitely are not terrible!

My main tip for Germany vs Soviets is this. You can't defeat them by driving them back. They have more divisions than you to start off with and they are producing more than you each month. They also will not run out of reinforcements or manpower to form new divisions but you will. You have to remove Soviet divisions from the game completely as often as possible and continuously for an extended period of time.

Don't worry about capturing their territory early on. With the exception of the zone in the Ukraine where there is a shed load of Energy and Metal to be gained there is very little value to the land you capture anyway. They have already moved the industry to the east and there are very few resources to be gained.

Instead set up a strong defensive line along the whole front. Make sure you have a minimum of 12 tactical bomber squadrons and 8 close air support. Station them at airbases close together and in range to attack a specific province. Then create some killing zones. These are zones where you choose a province to attack but not hold. Stack supporting units in the adjoining provinces and attack the province with 3 land divisions, with support from all the adjoining provinces and using your bomber and cas to do interdiction attacks against the Russians. The moment the Russians go into retreat, switch your aircraft to doing ground attack missions. Then when your 3 divisions arrive in the province they as you know will be counter attacked by numerous fresh divisions. Give up immediately and order them to retreat. Then wait until the counter attackers arrive and start the whole process again. Your aircraft should succeed in totally wiping out most of the retreating Russian divisions each time. If you can manage to destroy about 30 divisions each month you will be removing them quicker than they are being built and you will start to see gaps or weaknesses appear in their line. Be ready to attack these with armoured and motorised divisions (you should with sufficient numbers be able to hold these). Keep repeating the process and within a year or two their land forces will be fubar and you are on easy street and soon having breakfast in Moscow!

btw ... don't forget to have some fighter and interceptor squadrons deployed to stop your bombers getting shot down by the Russian fighters. They will of course try to stop you.

[Blue & Maroon]

You seem good DT, i'm pretty terrible Best game i've had was with Japan, ruled the Pacific, Asia, The Middle East, half of the Soviet Union with the Germans and Africa. Managed to get an early peace with America as they randomly declared war on the Soviets and Germans simultaneously and didn't join the allies randomly (later declared war on Britain ). Very tempted to go play now

It's only practice mate I've been playing since Hearts of Iron 1 came out so i've had plenty of time to pick up strategic tips. Sounds like you played a good game as Japan so you definitely are not terrible!

My main tip for Germany vs Soviets is this. You can't defeat them by driving them back. They have more divisions than you to start off with and they are producing more than you each month. They also will not run out of reinforcements or manpower to form new divisions but you will. You have to remove Soviet divisions from the game completely as often as possible and continuously for an extended period of time.

Don't worry about capturing their territory early on. With the exception of the zone in the Ukraine where there is a shed load of Energy and Metal to be gained there is very little value to the land you capture anyway. They have already moved the industry to the east and there are very few resources to be gained.

Instead set up a strong defensive line along the whole front. Make sure you have a minimum of 12 tactical bomber squadrons and 8 close air support. Station them at airbases close together and in range to attack a specific province. Then create some killing zones. These are zones where you choose a province to attack but not hold. Stack supporting units in the adjoining provinces and attack the province with 3 land divisions, with support from all the adjoining provinces and using your bomber and cas to do interdiction attacks against the Russians. The moment the Russians go into retreat, switch your aircraft to doing ground attack missions. Then when your 3 divisions arrive in the province they (as you know will be counter attacked by numerous fresh divisions). Give up immediately and order them to retreat. Then wait until the counter attackers arrive and start the whole process again. Your aircraft should succeed in totally wiping out most of the retreating Russian divisions each time. If you can manage to destroy about 30 divisions each month you will be removing them quicker than they are being built and you will start to see gaps or weaknesses appear in their line. Be ready to attack these with armoured and motorised divisions (you should with sufficient numbers be able to hold these). Keep repeating the process and within a year or two their land forces will be fubar and you are on easy street and soon having breakfast in Moscow!

btw ... don't forget to have some fighter and interceptor squadrons deployed to stop your bombers getting shot down by the Russian fighters. They will of course try to stop you.

I know how im spending my weekend now I think that's where i'm going wrong to be honest, inability to sufficiently manage my air forces and slowly grind down the Soviets organisation before engaging them.It seriously is one of the best games i've ever played I love the details, the grand strategy and politics. Not to mention the fact that it's from my ''favourite'' period of history.

[Donkey Toon]

Don't know where to start fella.

They have totally dumbed the game down. Techonolgy advancement, city management and land development options have all been reduced massively and simplified. Military units are also massively reduced and you can only put one unit on a square at a time, ie no stacking. It is also due to map sizes impossible to build big empires ... you will be lucky to build about eight or nine cities before running out of space.

Religion has been removed as have the standard civics options you get. Instead they have brought in a cultural development idea, split into a number of categories. You develop them over time and once earned they become a civic/cultural asset for you.

Instead of barbarian civs you get neutral states who you use diplomacy with to bring to your side. This is probably the only new idea I actually approve of. They are pretty fickle though and keeping them on board costs a fortune, but you get benefits back in return.

Other than the neutral states idea the whole thing is a mess from start to finish. It is the simplifying of the game that ruins it the most though. I don't know what they were thinking because they had to know that anybody brought up on the older harder variants wasn't going to take to an easier version.

Wow, doesn't even sound like the same game. What the hell were they thinking getting rid of stacks? That is one of the hallmarks of the series. Culutral Development idea sounds a bit weird, is that the only way you can build wonders or other cultural city advancements?
Replacement of barbarian civs must also be a bit weird in the early days, why the hell would there be neutral states when you have club-weilding warriors? Cheers for the warning, I was actually considering getting it some time.

No wonders are still separate but they aren't as effective. Although in the few games I played before giving up in disgust I noticed that on a couple of occasions I was able to build a wonder quicker than a city improvement. Great People also have a reduced effect. Can't use them to speed up scientific research and stuff like that, Artist builds a site of beauty, Scientist a research centre and General a fortress.

Cultural development effectively replaces the civics choices. So you no longer decide on your systems of government, i.e. monarchy or democracy, serfdom or caste system, theocracy or free religion. They are just principles that you have to develop but once learned you are stuck with.

Seriously fella don't bother with it. Wait until version 6 comes out and hopefully they will have figured out their mistakes! Read the reviews on amazon if you want to see more opinions, you will see i'm far from being alone in my low opinion.

[Donkey Toon]

I know how im spending my weekend now I think that's where i'm going wrong to be honest, inability to sufficiently manage my air forces and slowly grind down the Soviets organisation before engaging them.It seriously is one of the best games i've ever played I love the details, the grand strategy and politics. Not to mention the fact that it's from my ''favourite'' period of history.

Air supremacy is definitely the key, doesn't matter which nation you are playing. That is why I always like to play the 1936 Road to War version of the game. It gives you the chance to build a customised and bigger airforce than you would start with if you play the 1938 or 1939 versions.

You've probably already figured it out but just in case, always deploy air squadrons in units three or four strong (four preferably). Acting alone they achieve very little but get mauled by the opposition.

Picking the right leader for the right job is also key. Although even I haven't figured out all the actual game mechanic benefits for some of the leader traits, such as Blockade Runner and Spotter!

Out of interest and talking about leaders, next time you play Britain take a look at Nepal (or Bhutan can't remember which). Click on a unit to change commander and have a look at the choices. There is a Major General called Potter ... but his picture is Captain Mainwaring from Dad's Army!

I'm with you on loving the grand stategy and politics. I also love military history and WWII in particular. After a while you may want to take a look at the Fan created spin off games like Arsenal of Democracy, Cross of Iron or the Darkest Hour. They develop the game in all sorts of ways; more complex technology tree, many more provinces on the game map, improved AI and also expand the game. There is a version where you start at the beginning of WW1 and can carry the game all the way through to 1963.

I'll be playing this weekend as well by the looks of it!

[ToonSi]

But Skalps....

You can turn the dialogue off & certainly on the xbox version you can switch between the old & new version !

Don't we already have an retro gaming thread?
*edit* that's old school online gaming.

It's the principle of it that I hate really. If I was going to turn it all off, I'd just go for the original which I still have anyway. It's like Lucas adding more and more modern crap to the original Star Wars films every few years. Sure, you can still watch the originals but you still know that they've been ruthlessly defecated upon.

I knew what you meant , I bought it for xbox, hated the new graphics and immediately switched over to the old version (although the sound wasn't the same, I remember the midi 8 bit sounds screeching out of the computer and not the PC's speakers )

[skalpel]

I knew what you meant , I bought it for xbox, hated the new graphics and immediately switched over to the old version (although the sound wasn't the same, I remember the midi 8 bit sounds screeching out of the computer and not the PC's speakers )

That was one of the greatest things about it. I can still hear the 8bit theme tune to that pirate tavern on the jeti in my head every so often.

[Blue & Maroon]

I know how im spending my weekend now I think that's where i'm going wrong to be honest, inability to sufficiently manage my air forces and slowly grind down the Soviets organisation before engaging them.It seriously is one of the best games i've ever played I love the details, the grand strategy and politics. Not to mention the fact that it's from my ''favourite'' period of history.

Air supremacy is definitely the key, doesn't matter which nation you are playing. That is why I always like to play the 1936 Road to War version of the game. It gives you the chance to build a customised and bigger airforce than you would start with if you play the 1938 or 1939 versions.

You've probably already figured it out but just in case, always deploy air squadrons in units three or four strong (four preferably). Acting alone they achieve very little but get mauled by the opposition.

Picking the right leader for the right job is also key. Although even I haven't figured out all the actual game mechanic benefits for some of the leader traits, such as Blockade Runner and Spotter!

Out of interest and talking about leaders, next time you play Britain take a look at Nepal (or Bhutan can't remember which). Click on a unit to change commander and have a look at the choices. There is a Major General called Potter ... but his picture is Captain Mainwaring from Dad's Army!

I'm with you on loving the grand stategy and politics. I also love military history and WWII in particular. After a while you may want to take a look at the Fan created spin off games like Arsenal of Democracy, Cross of Iron or the Darkest Hour. They develop the game in all sorts of ways; more complex technology tree, many more provinces on the game map, improved AI and also expand the game. There is a version where you start at the beginning of WW1 and can carry the game all the way through to 1963.

I'll be playing this weekend as well by the looks of it!

Aye it's probably no coincidence that my most successful campaign has come as Japan where your airforce require much less mirco-management (barring early game vs China) due to the vastness of the Pacific and the relativity small armies Britain fields in India. Will have to have a look at that general mind

Heard of some of those mods to and will give them a crack eventually! There is just so much I haven't done in the original game.

[Donkey Toon]

Aye it's probably no coincidence that my most successful campaign has come as Japan where your airforce require much less mirco-management (barring early game vs China) due to the vastness of the Pacific and the relativity small armies Britain fields in India. Will have to have a look at that general mind

Heard of some of those mods to and will give them a crack eventually! There is just so much I haven't done in the original game.

Don't rush it with the mods you are better off getting a hang of the version you are playing. I would recommend Armageddon though for one simple reason. They have improved the unit production screen so that you can assign a brigage attachment to a unit when you start building it. So you no longer have to try and work out the date two years in advance when your aircraft carrier will be finished and try and time the carrier air group to roll of the production line at the same time! Other than that and a few other minor changes it plays exactly the same. Well worth the few quid it cost to buy believe me!

Don't knock your achievement as Japan. Yes airforces play a smaller part in the land arena but they are still important in the pacific. As Japan you will have had to manage your navy with equal skill so it is a grand achievement!

That is why I like the game so much, you have to play each country slightly differently and even then each game will take different courses and feel different.

[Henry Hoover]

Command and Conquer Red Alert was AMAZING! As was Red Alert 2, and Command and Conquer Generals

[ToonSi]

I knew what you meant , I bought it for xbox, hated the new graphics and immediately switched over to the old version (although the sound wasn't the same, I remember the midi 8 bit sounds screeching out of the computer and not the PC's speakers )

That was one of the greatest things about it. I can still hear the 8bit theme tune to that pirate tavern on the jeti in my head every so often.

me too. I guess it's no wonder I ended up so involved in electronic music with a childhood filled with games like that!

[Protein Cheik]

How does anyone understand Hearts of Iron? I'm a massive World War II history buff and avid strategy gamer but when I bought HOI 2 I couldn't comprehend it all.

[Acid Hippo]

Grim Fandango
Also did anyone play the Simon the Sorcerer series, Sam & Max series, Manic Mansion & Day of the Tentacle?

Used to love games that used the SCUMM engine

I loved Day of the Tentacle! Absolutely brilliant game.

[Jaiston]

Does anyone have any favourite PC games from 10-20 years ago?

My favourites oldies are -

Half Life
Half Life Opposing Forces
Recoil 1998 - Tank Game
Heretic II
Diablo II
Dungeon Keeper II
Quake II

These, but add Z, Quake, Dungeon Keeper, Homeworld, Unreal Tournament, F22 ADF, Doom(all before 3), DoD, AQ2, Air Attack, Soldier of Fortune, Blood(epic game), Wolfenstein 3D, X-wing, X-wing vs Tie Fighter, Duke Nukem 3D, Heretic, Hexen, X-wing Alliance, Jedi Knight, JK: Dark Forces 2, Rogue Squadron, Prince of Persia, Sim City, Transport Tycoon, Theme Park, Theme hospital, Alien Vs Predator, KKND: Krusk, kill n destroy(like c&c), Mortal Combat, Combat Flight Simulator, Flight Simulator, Mechwarrior.

That's what I can remember at the minute.

[Donkey Toon]

How does anyone understand Hearts of Iron? I'm a massive World War II history buff and avid strategy gamer but when I bought HOI 2 I couldn't comprehend it all.

Due to its complexity it is a bit of a challenge to learn and get to grips with it, that is for sure!

But it is worth the effort. It is the difficulty and challenge that makes it as good as it is once you get playing. It is also what keeps me coming back to it a decade after first playing it when I have usually become bored with strategy games within six months or so.

If you decide to give it another go at any time and you get stuck or could do with some pointers to help get you started feel free to drop me a pm and i'll happily give you some advice.

[ToonSi]

How does anyone understand Hearts of Iron? I'm a massive World War II history buff and avid strategy gamer but when I bought HOI 2 I couldn't comprehend it all.

Due to its complexity it is a bit of a challenge to learn and get to grips with it, that is for sure!

But it is worth the effort. It is the difficulty and challenge that makes it as good as it is once you get playing. It is also what keeps me coming back to it a decade after first playing it when I have usually become bored with strategy games within six months or so.

If you decide to give it another go at any time and you get stuck or could do with some pointers to help get you started feel free to drop me a pm and i'll happily give you some advice.

How old is that game?
Just it sounds like my kind of strategy game!

[Colly]

I knew what you meant , I bought it for xbox, hated the new graphics and immediately switched over to the old version (although the sound wasn't the same, I remember the midi 8 bit sounds screeching out of the computer and not the PC's speakers )

That was one of the greatest things about it. I can still hear the 8bit theme tune to that pirate tavern on the jeti in my head every so often.

Each to their own I guess, but I really enjoyed the remakes. I played both versions to be honest, but the new graphics look amazing and struggled to go back. Could take or leave the voices, but I am used to them from the inferior sequels so didn't bother me too much.

Used to have the original version of Largo Legrandes theme as my ringtone for ages...