ToonForum Scottish Independence Referendum

[Albert's Chip Shop]

Independence or not?

[Albert's Chip Shop]

I don't trust Salmond mind.

[Obertans Magic Head]

They can have it if they want it. However the salmon man seems to think he can have independence, all the money, all the oil and none of the debt, this will not happen.

Personally i Scotland is better off with the rest of us but if they want to go their own way i see no reason to stop them.

[TJR]

They can have it if they want it. However the salmon man seems to think he can have independence, all the money, all the oil and none of the debt, this will not happen.

Personally i Scotland is better off with the rest of us but if they want to go their own way i see no reason to stop them.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts.

[Mifune]

Scotland pisses me off no end. They get their own parliament which English MPs can't sit in and yet Scot MPs are allowed to sit in the Houses of Parliament. They want their 'independence' but have no problem depending on our health care, army, taxes, economy, etc. Scotland needs England/UK much more than England/UK needs them.

I also hate having to go to university with people who are getting it for free through our tax money while I am having to pay thousands and thousands of pounds for it.

[The Situation]

Really don't see how this would work, how will the country make money? Do they export or import anything? They have to offer uni's for free for most students there to even go to them, they get money for healthcare which would go. It would seem to me it basically makes them worse off in nearly every sense apart from pride.

Always find some scottish people strange they seem to work in England and yet complain about hating it and loving Scotland so much :S, why live here then! For the money? Well they obviously don't love Scotland that much!

[Obertans Magic Head]

Really don't see how this would work, how will the country make money? Do they export or import anything? They have to offer uni's for free for most students there to even go to them, they get money for healthcare which would go. It would seem to me it basically makes them worse off in nearly every sense apart from pride.

Always find some scottish people strange they seem to work in England and yet complain about hating it and loving Scotland so much :S, why live here then! For the money? Well they obviously don't love Scotland that much!

It works because they intend to take a s*** load of our money with them when they go.

[East Stand]

Scotland pisses me off no end. They get their own parliament which English MPs can't sit in and yet Scot MPs are allowed to sit in the Houses of Parliament. They want their 'independence' but have no problem depending on our health care, army, taxes, economy, etc. Scotland needs England/UK much more than England/UK needs them.

I also hate having to go to university with people who are getting it for free through our tax money while I am having to pay thousands and thousands of pounds for it.

To say that Scotland relies on England more than we need them is absolute ****, and I suggest you do your homework.
Scotland's main assets to the economy are oil and whiskey. To major exports they sell globally.
With a population of approximately 6million, less than the total population of London, means they can quite easily make a good economy on their own, and I believe they could actually be a successful country, as the oil will not run out as people seem to think. The UK rely on North Sea oil as one of the major incomes. So tell me, what are England's assets to the economy. ((Don't say the financial district in London) - we are in debt, remember)
If the independence happens, England lose out... we lose all the surrounding islands such as Orkney, Shetlands, St Kilda. A lot of you will not appreciate these, but they hold the borders to our oil drilling operations, and Orkney and Shetlands have rich resources of fishing and oil and St Kilda increasing our stretch of British waters.

As for the Scottish working in England, thats because all the geordies come up here for jobs, only to send the jocks down there!

I actually hope Scotland remain part of the UK, as we'd be f***ed without them...and I don't fancy getting a work visa for Scotland too.

Really don't see how this would work, how will the country make money? Do they export or import anything? They have to offer uni's for free for most students there to even go to them, they get money for healthcare which would go. It would seem to me it basically makes them worse off in nearly every sense apart from pride.

Always find some scottish people strange they seem to work in England and yet complain about hating it and loving Scotland so much :S, why live here then! For the money? Well they obviously don't love Scotland that much!

It works because they intend to take a s*** load of our money with them when they go.

See above, you muppets
Also, if they become independent and are still a member of the European Union, chances are they will actually receive money from the union, oppose to contributing due to their size.

Edit:

See, for point of interest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - & scroll down to the United Kingdom.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ingdom.svg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
For the UK's economic zone.

[Colback's Orange Tufts]

To say that Scotland relies on England more than we need them is absolute ****, and I suggest you do your homework.
Scotland's main assets to the economy are oil and whiskey. To major exports they sell globally.
With a population of approximately 6million, less than the total population of London, means they can quite easily make a good economy on their own, and I believe they could actually be a successful country, as the oil will not run out as people seem to think. The UK rely on North Sea oil as one of the major incomes. So tell me, what are England's assets to the economy. ((Don't say the financial district in London) - we are in debt, remember)

The oil is mainly farmed by companies that are based in London or or multi-nationals. Most of the money goes there. As for whisky, big booze companies like Diageo make most of the profit. Whisky is a small scale thing, not that many can be employed on it and access to mass employment is the issue. We may be in massive debt, but the financial sector in London still makes bucketloads of money...

The issue is the welfare state and civil service jobs. Areas like Scotland, NI and the north east have disproportionately large ratios of civil service to private sector jobs. Other area of the UK have more private sector employment and there is a large balance of payments here. This is potentially a large problem for Scotland.

Let me remind you 5 years ago on this very subject Slamond suggested Scotland had examples to follow of small strong economies in Europe, ROI and Iceland. That worked well.

Of course if Scots want it, go mad. Not sure they do want 100% yet (hence delaying vote). Devo max makes sense mind.

[Colback's Orange Tufts]

[
See above, you muppets
Also, if they become independent and are still a member of the European Union, chances are they will actually receive money from the union, oppose to contributing due to their size.

Also we get money from EU with the UK budget rebate that Thatcher negotiated. This is because we low rates of farming and get less French based subsidies. But Scotland alone couldn't claim this, it would be interesting to see what happened there.

[East Stand]

[
See above, you muppets
Also, if they become independent and are still a member of the European Union, chances are they will actually receive money from the union, oppose to contributing due to their size.

Also we get money from EU with the UK budget rebate that Thatcher negotiated. This is because we low rates of farming and get less French based subsidies. But Scotland alone couldn't claim this, it would be interesting to see what happened there.

We actually, put more in than we get given, with the UK one of the main contributors. The rebate, is exactly that, we only get a rebate, if we exceed the overall expenditure for the EU budget.
If Scotland get independent, they will receive part of EU budget and not the rebate.
That's if they become a member of the EU Union, however, they could also end up like Norway in terms of a trade agreement with the EU

[East Stand]

The oil is mainly farmed by companies that are based in London or or multi-nationals. Most of the money goes there. As for whisky, big booze companies like Diageo make most of the profit. Whisky is a small scale thing, not that many can be employed on it and access to mass employment is the issue. We may be in massive debt, but the financial sector in London still makes bucketloads of money...

The issue is the welfare state and civil service jobs. Areas like Scotland, NI and the north east have disproportionately large ratios of civil service to private sector jobs. Other area of the UK have more private sector employment and there is a large balance of payments here. This is potentially a large problem for Scotland.

Let me remind you 5 years ago on this very subject Slamond suggested Scotland had examples to follow of small strong economies in Europe, ROI and Iceland. That worked well.

Of course if Scots want it, go mad. Not sure they do want 100% yet (hence delaying vote). Devo max makes sense mind.

Can you expand on the, "The oil is mainly farmed by companies that are based in London or or multi-nationals. Most of the money goes there."

As for whisky, big booze companies like Diageo make most of the profit. Whisky is a small scale thing, not that many can be employed on it and access to mass employment is the issue.

Rubbish!! Whiskey is one of the top manufacturing earners in the UK and it's all based in Scotland. Last time i checked, it brought in 3/4 billion to the UK economy. Hardly small scale mate. So imagine that to the Scottish economy!

As for jobs in the public sector job, since when did, fishing whisky and energy solutions become state run?
ROI only has guiness and potatoes for assets , Iceland f***ed their banks up. I think Scotland will do much better than them. I also think Salmond is a plank and i wouldn't trust him as far as i could throw him!

[Blue & Maroon]

The Jocks can have independence. Just means we have another country to invade for it's oil.

[Colback's Orange Tufts]

This is better than Friday afternoon work. Apologies in advance for bad nested quoting.

Can you expand on the, "The oil is mainly farmed by companies that are based in London or or multi-nationals. Most of the money goes there."

So firms that are not based in Scotland will try and avoid as much tax as possible there and declare it elsewhere. These firms are good at this. Obviously Scotland would see alot of oil money, but not as much as some people think.

As for whisky, big booze companies like Diageo make most of the profit. Whisky is a small scale thing, not that many can be employed on it and access to mass employment is the issue.

Rubbish!! Whiskey is one of the top manufacturing earners in the UK and it's all based in Scotland. Last time i checked, it brought in 3/4 billion to the UK economy. Hardly small scale mate. So imagine that to the Scottish economy!



As for jobs in the public sector job, since when did, fishing whisky and energy solutions become state run?
ROI only has guiness and potatoes for assets , Iceland f***ed their banks up. I think Scotland will do much better than them. I also think Salmond is a plank and i wouldn't trust him as far as i could throw him!

What I meant about whisky is this. Yes it brings in alot of money, not denying this. Great for the exchequer. However, it is not a mass employer.
Yes Scotland has alot of people in fishing, whisky and energy solutions. But in the cities, last time I checked, it has large amounts of public sector jobs, larger than elsewhere. One sees from Greece an economy based upon civil service jobs is not a strong foundation. They* lack manufacturing and tech jobs on a large scale. This is not to say the economy would be bad per se (or anything like Greece) but I think the union benefits it. The parallels of ROI and Iceland are I see people like Salmond overestimating assets and growth like those two did. Of course I am a person on the internet stating stats without linking to them so a pinch of salt is needed, but I amgrabbing time between work....

* as do people in the NE where I grew up. Excpet we have a smaller private sector. I am more than happy to say we are propped up by the south of England.

[nufc1991]

Tough one for me this. I am Scottish, but have lived in England for the past 10 years. I enjoy living here, and must admit it's been a nicer place to live than where I am from orginally. I think the majority of people in Scotland would prefer to stay in the United Kingdom, but I think most English people would prefer Scotland to go it alone. I think I'd like that too. The old home country gets alot of flak, gets laughed at quite alot, and is accused of bleeding England dry so it would be nice to see it stand on it's own two feet and be successful. Whether it can or not I don't know. Norway does seem to be the successful example to follow; similar sized country, similar population, that's used it's natural resources well to create a successful economy.

[Albert's Chip Shop]

[East Stand]

[East Stand]

This is better than Friday afternoon work. Apologies in advance for bad nested quoting.

Can you expand on the, "The oil is mainly farmed by companies that are based in London or or multi-nationals. Most of the money goes there."

So firms that are not based in Scotland will try and avoid as much tax as possible there and declare it elsewhere. These firms are good at this. Obviously Scotland would see alot of oil money, but not as much as some people think.

Rubbish!! Whiskey is one of the top manufacturing earners in the UK and it's all based in Scotland. Last time i checked, it brought in 3/4 billion to the UK economy. Hardly small scale mate. So imagine that to the Scottish economy!



As for jobs in the public sector job, since when did, fishing whisky and energy solutions become state run?
ROI only has guiness and potatoes for assets , Iceland f***ed their banks up. I think Scotland will do much better than them. I also think Salmond is a plank and i wouldn't trust him as far as i could throw him!

What I meant about whisky is this. Yes it brings in alot of money, not denying this. Great for the exchequer. However, it is not a mass employer.
Yes Scotland has alot of people in fishing, whisky and energy solutions. But in the cities, last time I checked, it has large amounts of public sector jobs, larger than elsewhere. One sees from Greece an economy based upon civil service jobs is not a strong foundation. They* lack manufacturing and tech jobs on a large scale. This is not to say the economy would be bad per se (or anything like Greece) but I think the union benefits it. The parallels of ROI and Iceland are I see people like Salmond overestimating assets and growth like those two did. Of course I am a person on the internet stating stats without linking to them so a pinch of salt is needed, but I amgrabbing time between work....

* as do people in the NE where I grew up. Excpet we have a smaller private sector. I am more than happy to say we are propped up by the south of England.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Release ... 2/14101014" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is a report of which I find an extremely reliable source to the figures about public and private sectors. The scale across the past 10 years shows that private sector jobs have always remained the dominant employer, as it's all relative.

So firms that are not based in Scotland will try and avoid as much tax as possible there and declare it elsewhere. These firms are good at this. Obviously Scotland would see alot of oil money, but not as much as some people think.

Obviously the oil based companies that are not based in Scotland and have offices in London are clearly not operating in the North Sea. So it wouldn't have any effect on them as a country what so ever. Unless the companies feel obliged to pay tax there.

The tax for oil companies has already gone up (last year), i think it's been hiked up three times since 2000, and they're still here, only just as the oil companies are already stalling over new investments into the oil fields in the North Sea, sending a message to the UK government to reduce the tax on crude or we'll look elsewhere.

Anyway, so you're basically claiming that the oil companies are tax evading due to hiking up the taxes they pay. The oil companies will not tax evade. Trust me. They will simply realise that when it gets too much, the climate will become unstable to operate in, pack up and leave.

[Paco]

The question is whether they take their share of the deficit, if they do, they're f***ed

[The Situation]

HHmm East Stand you seem to be forgeting all the negative aspects of Scotland gaining indepedence, if it is as easy as you say, i.e

Step 1 become independent

Step 2 Sell oil and Whiskey

Step 3 Chill out and roll in all the money

Then why haven't they done this before now, infact why isn't it being passed this second?