Your School

What sort of school did you attend?

State school
29
81%
Independent school
5
14%
Both
2
6%
 
Total votes: 36

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Your School

Post by skalpel » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:58 pm

I've noticed on the comments for various news pieces, opinion pieces, and blogs, that some people have a genuine dislike for the idea of private schooling (or independent schooling) on the simple principle of it being paid for and not being state. This has come as quite a surprise to me, to be honest, because although I've always understood the dislike for public schools like Eton or Harrow with all their pomposity and conceit, I'd never imagined I'd find anybody actually actively hating independent schools in general. But, oddly enough, this seems to be the case.

So what are your thoughts on Independent Schools vs State Schools? What was your schooling like? Private or state? Did your experience of one make you wish you'd had the other? Was your school utterly atrocious? Was it amazing? What do you want for your kids (or what did you do for your kids)? Do you want a state school even though you could perfectly well afford a private school? The other way about?

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Re: Your School

Post by PTAO? » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:19 pm

I can't understand the hate for public schools. The more people who attend them, the more resources/child the government can afford in the state schools. People attending state schools actually benefit from independent schools, even if it's not direct.

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Re: Your School

Post by Wedge Head Tiote » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:30 pm

The dislike probably stems from the idea that (though not always true) children in independent schools get a better education, and therefore better jobs and so earn more money. It's unfair that the amount of money you have should determine the quality of education.

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Re: Your School

Post by skalpel » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:16 pm

Yeah. It's ridiculous that some people enjoy calling anybody who went to a private school a wanker or something, just because they're unhappy with the system. I went to s*** state schools, and I'm saving up to get my son the best private education I can so that he gets the exact opposite of the ballsed up childhood education I got. There are plenty of really good state schools, but if I'm living somewhere where the best education is private, then that's what I'll be looking at.

An uncle of mine got into the RGS back in the 60s. I wish I'd gone to the f***ing RGS <grim>.

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Re: Your School

Post by PTAO? » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:22 pm

skalpel wrote:Yeah. It's ridiculous that some people enjoy calling anybody who went to a private school a wanker or something, just because they're unhappy with the system. I went to s*** state schools, and I'm saving up to get my son the best private education I can so that he gets the exact opposite of the ballsed up childhood education I got. There are plenty of really good state schools, but if I'm living somewhere where the best education is private, then that's what I'll be looking at.

An uncle of mine got into the RGS back in the 60s. I wish I'd gone to the f***ing RGS <grim>.
A mate of mine moved to London with kids, and when looking at where to live and the schools etc, he realised you pay a premium similar to public school fees just to live in the catchment area of the schools that were any good.

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Re: Your School

Post by Mifune » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:24 pm

My school was pretty s*** and I hated school. Most of the stuff I know now (apart from the fundamental things of course) and the way I think have been self-taught and self-learned. If I had gone to a private school then no doubt I would have been better educated but I do not know if I would be any smarter or any better a person. I think that if I had a kid then unless the state schools in my area were truly abysmal then I would send them to a state school. I don't have anything against private schools but for some reason I think I would feel like they would be missing out on something if they went to one. I don't really put a great deal of stock in academics or education, I've met too many people who have been well educated and have been complete morons. I obviously think that learning and the acquisition of knowledge, other points of views or ways of thinking etc. is incredibly important but I am just unsure that any type of school really is the best way of instilling it in people. I just think how education is done is f***ing s*** really.

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Re: Your School

Post by skalpel » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:27 pm

Pretty Terrible Attacking Options wrote:A mate of mine moved to London with kids, and when looking at where to live and the schools etc, he realised you pay a premium similar to public school fees just to live in the catchment area of the schools that were any good.
Hah, yeah that's a great point. May I ask what he did in the end?

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Re: Your School

Post by skalpel » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:32 pm

MIFUNE wrote:My school was pretty s*** and I hated school. Most of the stuff I know now (apart from the fundamental things of course) and the way I think have been self-taught and self-learned. If I had gone to a private school then no doubt I would have been better educated but I do not know if I would be any smarter or any better a person. I think that if I had a kid then unless the state schools in my area were truly abysmal then I would send them to a state school. I don't have anything against private schools but for some reason I think I would feel like they would be missing out on something if they went to one. I don't really put a great deal of stock in academics or education, I've met too many people who have been well educated and have been complete morons. I obviously think that learning and the acquisition of knowledge, other points of views or ways of thinking etc. is incredibly important but I am just unsure that any type of school really is the best way of instilling it in people. I just think how education is done is f***ing s*** really.
Is it that there's something in the social atmosphere of state schools that you'd like your kids to experience?
I've met too many people who have been well educated and have been complete morons.
Yeah, there are more people educated beyond their intelligence than there are grains of British coastal sand. But wouldn't you be nurturing the general thoughtfulness and worldliness at home, while the school fills in the necessary chunks of academia? I'm not sure if it's a schools job to do much more.

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Re: Your School

Post by Speedo » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:33 pm

I went to Gossy High <awe>. For a long time I was the only kid on my street who didn't go to Private School, and I'm very glad about it - I got a much better social education than I would've got at one of those places. I like to think I'd send my kids to state school, I'd back them to succeed wherever they are. But at the same time I am not as ideologically opposed as I once was - if it is the best school in your area, then fair enough. What I dislike is the class separation. That's the issue. At Gosforth High, I was one of the wealthiest pupils, but at RGS I'd be at best in the middle. It's not really right that the very top don't have to mix with the rest of us, and similarly it's not fair on the poorest kids that they should be denied the opportunity to succeed or mix with kids with certain backgrounds.
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Re: Your School

Post by PTAO? » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:44 pm

skalpel wrote:
Pretty Terrible Attacking Options wrote:A mate of mine moved to London with kids, and when looking at where to live and the schools etc, he realised you pay a premium similar to public school fees just to live in the catchment area of the schools that were any good.
Hah, yeah that's a great point. May I ask what he did in the end?
They went with the cheaper location as they couldn't afford the state school areas really, and the kids were young enough that they had a few years to save for the independent school.

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Re: Your School

Post by skalpel » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:54 pm

MIFUNE wrote:My school was pretty s*** and I hated school. Most of the stuff I know now (apart from the fundamental things of course) and the way I think have been self-taught and self-learned. If I had gone to a private school then no doubt I would have been better educated but I do not know if I would be any smarter or any better a person. I think that if I had a kid then unless the state schools in my area were truly abysmal then I would send them to a state school. I don't have anything against private schools but for some reason I think I would feel like they would be missing out on something if they went to one. I don't really put a great deal of stock in academics or education, I've met too many people who have been well educated and have been complete morons. I obviously think that learning and the acquisition of knowledge, other points of views or ways of thinking etc. is incredibly important but I am just unsure that any type of school really is the best way of instilling it in people. I just think how education is done is f***ing s*** really.
Sorry to tack this onto another post, I forgot something. I'm totally the same as you are with regards to autodidacticism after having gone through s*** state schooling. I came out of the gradations of comprehensive school education thinking that enjoying learning things makes you a loser. I left school as soon as I finished my GCSEs (at 15) and proceeded to build on that utterly atrocious foundation by f***ing everything up for the next five or so years. Of course it wasn't only the schooling that f***ed me up (plenty of domestic) but it played a big role in ensuring that I ended up in my twenties with no A levels, no degree, and no chance of ever getting to benefit from and test myself at a good educational institution. So when you say that you don't know if you'd have been any smarter or a better person if you'd attended a private school, I'd pretty much have to disagree there because I know that my childhood interest in learning was crushed in part by a lack of domestic encouragement but in another part by a lack of the same at school.

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Re: Your School

Post by skalpel » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:55 pm

Pretty Terrible Attacking Options wrote:
skalpel wrote:
Hah, yeah that's a great point. May I ask what he did in the end?
They went with the cheaper location as they couldn't afford the state school areas really, and the kids were young enough that they had a few years to save for the independent school.
A good call, really. I'm not sure if I see much point in private schooling for under the age of 10 or there abouts anyway.

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Re: Your School

Post by Mifune » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:02 pm

skalpel wrote:Is it that there's something in the social atmosphere of state schools that you'd like your kids to experience
I'm not sure if "like" is the right word, maybe more like feel is necessary. I don't really know to be honest, I think I just feel that people and especially kids should have a broad an exposure to society as possible. Apart from peados and whatnot obviously.
Yeah, there are more people educated beyond their intelligence than there are grains of British coastal sand. But wouldn't you be nurturing the general thoughtfulness and worldliness at home, while the school fills in the necessary chunks of academia? I'm not sure if it's a schools job to do much more.
Probably, but if that is the case then I am not sure if one is any better than the other. They are both more focused on test scores and the like rather than the actual learning experience. In state schools it is due to pressure from government to show good scores, and in private schools it is pressure to show good test scores to parents who have paid a lot of money for their child to go to that school, money which the school's existence depends on. Education ideally should be an amazing experience and it should encompass more than just the garnering of information and grades but instead focus more on understanding and development.

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Re: Your School

Post by Seagull » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:06 pm

I went to a state school, and had always assumed I would send my kids to a decent state school, somewhat irrationally maybe.

Genuine question, how difficult is it to achieve academically at a poorer-than-average state school? Assuming that their parents are supportive and reasonably intelligent. Appreciate it's a bit of a vague "how long is a piece of string" question but you get the idea.
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Re: Your School

Post by skalpel » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:08 pm

Yeah, a broader exposure to society from youth is definitely important. But would the smaller classrooms not foment a better experience? It's my understanding that private schools usually have about 20 at most, and more often about 16, whereas my school was somewhere between 30 and 40. I could be mistaken here, but if not then that seems to be pretty conducive to a better educational experience anyway.

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Re: Your School

Post by Colback's Orange Tufts » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:12 pm

No option for academy!? The first one in the UK is in Gateshead and I went here. Also if you are editimg it put down boarding school.

The difference between boarders and dayers is massive in private schools
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Re: Your School

Post by skalpel » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:12 pm

I want soutzoukakia smyrneika too wrote:I went to a state school, and had always assumed I would send my kids to a decent state school, somewhat irrationally maybe.

Genuine question, how difficult is it to achieve academically at a poorer-than-average state school? Assuming that their parents are supportive and reasonably intelligent. Appreciate it's a bit of a vague "how long is a piece of string" question but you get the idea.
I know that in my year at school there was a girl who seemed totally out of place. She spoke quite posh and was really soft natured, showed signs of being raised with care and she probably got a lot of education at home. The last I heard of her, she'd gotten into Cambridge so it would seem that it's definitely possible. But she was treated pretty oddly by the kids at school, ostracised and looked at through scrunched brows, like she was another species or something. Good for her that she made it through, but it's taking a bit of a risk putting your kid in that situation I think.

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Re: Your School

Post by Donkey Toon » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:28 pm

skalpel wrote:
MIFUNE wrote:My school was pretty s*** and I hated school. Most of the stuff I know now (apart from the fundamental things of course) and the way I think have been self-taught and self-learned. If I had gone to a private school then no doubt I would have been better educated but I do not know if I would be any smarter or any better a person. I think that if I had a kid then unless the state schools in my area were truly abysmal then I would send them to a state school. I don't have anything against private schools but for some reason I think I would feel like they would be missing out on something if they went to one. I don't really put a great deal of stock in academics or education, I've met too many people who have been well educated and have been complete morons. I obviously think that learning and the acquisition of knowledge, other points of views or ways of thinking etc. is incredibly important but I am just unsure that any type of school really is the best way of instilling it in people. I just think how education is done is f***ing s*** really.
Sorry to tack this onto another post, I forgot something. I'm totally the same as you are with regards to autodidacticism after having gone through s*** state schooling. I came out of the gradations of comprehensive school education thinking that enjoying learning things makes you a loser. I left school as soon as I finished my GCSEs (at 15) and proceeded to build on that utterly atrocious foundation by f***ing everything up for the next five or so years. Of course it wasn't only the schooling that f***ed me up (plenty of domestic) but it played a big role in ensuring that I ended up in my twenties with no A levels, no degree, and no chance of ever getting to benefit from and test myself at a good educational institution. So when you say that you don't know if you'd have been any smarter or a better person if you'd attended a private school, I'd pretty much have to disagree there because I know that my childhood interest in learning was crushed in part by a lack of domestic encouragement but in another part by a lack of the same at school.
Both of your comments I agree with so much. I have a very cynical and jaded view of education and the education system.

My story being slightly different in that where I come from we still have the 11+ system. Don't get me started on the idea of testing kids at such a young age and then feeding them into a two tier education system. One where they will get (judging by Guernsey) a good education and the second where the system will fail them utterly.

I received no parental guidance or help in my education. I took the 11+ without even knowing what it was. I went to school on a certain day and was surprised to be taking a test rather than having normal lessons. I didn't have any idea how important it was or what it was for. There are 3 results; exceptional - get fee paid to attend private school (fantastic education), pass - go to grammar school and get good education or fail and go the secondary school where you will get a poor academic education and get pushed towards vocational even if you have no aptitude for it.

I was borderline going to grammar school, but was ultimately failed because I was born in September so on final selection missed the cut. ON the basis that kids born later in the school year are given extra credit.

My Secondary School was terrible. You were given the impression that you were already a failure and that they were not trying too hard to teach you. An outlook not helped by a boom in the Finance Industry meaning that just about anybody who could read and write was guaranteed a job. The careers teacher had the easiest job in the world "go into finance" he would say, irrespective of how good your grades were or your aptitude for that industry.

At the same time they held you back from academic achievement. I got 100% in an end of year History exam, also scoring 90% and 99% in subsequent years. But when it came to choosing options was told that I would not be able to take an O Level in the subject because the school did not do O Levels in that subject. Or in Geography which I had achieved a 90% plus grade in every assignment of exam in my entire time there. Am I wrong or should school actually try and assist you to achieve the best qualification you can in a subject?

I basically gave up on school. Made easy by having no parental help. I don't recall ever being asked if I had any homework to do, let alone have anybody check that I was doing it. Which having given up I generally didn't.

I left school with a terrible 7 O Levels, only 3 actual O Levels (the only subjects they did) and 4 CSE grade 1's. (Ask your parents if you don't know what they are). Yet at home was reading books that were on the required reading list for Oxbridge degrees.

Then decided not to go down the A Level route. Left school at 17 and went to College of Further Education to do a Business Studies Diploma (2 years full time). After that got a job. University was never an option although I would have liked to go. I would get no grant or help from parents and would've had to pay my own way. At the same time I had been given a "you have two weeks to find a job" ultimatum on finishing college.

I've pretty much self educated all the way because my education system showed little interest in doing the job properly. Personally I don't regret not going to University. I think it is a wasted opportunity for many people and feel that I learnt more by working for a living.

I have been left though with a very jaded view of qualifications, including other peoples.

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Re: Your School

Post by Mifune » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:42 pm

skalpel wrote:
MIFUNE wrote:My school was pretty s*** and I hated school. Most of the stuff I know now (apart from the fundamental things of course) and the way I think have been self-taught and self-learned. If I had gone to a private school then no doubt I would have been better educated but I do not know if I would be any smarter or any better a person. I think that if I had a kid then unless the state schools in my area were truly abysmal then I would send them to a state school. I don't have anything against private schools but for some reason I think I would feel like they would be missing out on something if they went to one. I don't really put a great deal of stock in academics or education, I've met too many people who have been well educated and have been complete morons. I obviously think that learning and the acquisition of knowledge, other points of views or ways of thinking etc. is incredibly important but I am just unsure that any type of school really is the best way of instilling it in people. I just think how education is done is f***ing s*** really.
Sorry to tack this onto another post, I forgot something. I'm totally the same as you are with regards to autodidacticism after having gone through s*** state schooling. I came out of the gradations of comprehensive school education thinking that enjoying learning things makes you a loser. I left school as soon as I finished my GCSEs (at 15) and proceeded to build on that utterly atrocious foundation by f***ing everything up for the next five or so years. Of course it wasn't only the schooling that f***ed me up (plenty of domestic) but it played a big role in ensuring that I ended up in my twenties with no A levels, no degree, and no chance of ever getting to benefit from and test myself at a good educational institution. So when you say that you don't know if you'd have been any smarter or a better person if you'd attended a private school, I'd pretty much have to disagree there because I know that my childhood interest in learning was crushed in part by a lack of domestic encouragement but in another part by a lack of the same at school.
See I differ here, I think my drive to teach myself stuff I am interested in was as a result of my complete uninterest in education and my negative feelings towards it. I went to school, I did my GCSEs, my A-levels and I went to university for no other reason than lack of a better option and that you are put on a conveyor belt for that path early on in school while not being properly given any other options. But because I had very little interest in what I was being taught at any stage of my education it forced me to read and learn about stuff that I did find interesting by myself which developed my self-exploration and self-driven development. So if I had gone to a private school I may have been better educated and received better grades, but I do not know if I would have also gone my own way so to speak with my self-educating and self-development. I don't know which in the end would be more beneficial.

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Re: Your School

Post by Wedge Head Tiote » Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:01 pm

I want soutzoukakia smyrneika too wrote:I went to a state school, and had always assumed I would send my kids to a decent state school, somewhat irrationally maybe.

Genuine question, how difficult is it to achieve academically at a poorer-than-average state school? Assuming that their parents are supportive and reasonably intelligent. Appreciate it's a bit of a vague "how long is a piece of string" question but you get the idea.
I'm my experience it's not hard if as you say the parents push you to do well. Also I found that if the school is big enough then kids don't particularly get bullied unless they're a complete t*** as there are enough kids that there's bound to be someone to be friends with.

Also, I don't think GCSEs/A Levels are that hard. Much of it comes down to whether you can be bothered to put the work in so the teaching won't make a huge difference. However, clearly if your kid wants to go to Oxbridge then private schools are a massive bonus.

Finally you get to be cool with the gangstas cause they've known you since primary school 8)

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