Brexit

[Colback's Orange Tufts]

I think giving everyone an equal vote in a society of 70 million people is ludicrous. Not saying my vote means more than anyone elses vote, but it's clear that some people shouldn't be allowed one. People who need to take pens to voting stations and people who are voting without realising the Euro is a currency, for instance. There should be some means of deciding if you're suitable to vote, certainly.

The European Court of Human Rights (and the UN) would object to that. And we aren't leaving either.

[Heisen]

I think giving everyone an equal vote in a society of 70 million people is ludicrous. Not saying my vote means more than anyone elses vote, but it's clear that some people shouldn't be allowed one. People who need to take pens to voting stations and people who are voting without realising the Euro is a currency, for instance. There should be some means of deciding if you're suitable to vote, certainly.

The European Court of Human Rights (and the UN) would object to that. And we aren't leaving either.

I know it'll never happen. Just a personal viewpoint. And that's not just because I voted for the losing side, either. There were plenty of lunatics on the Remain side who shouldn't have been allowed near a voting booth. There is far too much focus, in my opinion, on people's rights (ie. their right to vote) and not on their responsibilities (ie. making an informed, logical decision). This Referendum being a perfect example - a lot of people wanting to vote for either side without realising what that decision actually meant.

You're right when you say there's not a logical alternative, but democracy is a flawed system, no two ways about it.

[Colback's Orange Tufts]

The European Court of Human Rights (and the UN) would object to that. And we aren't leaving either.

I know it'll never happen. Just a personal viewpoint. And that's not just because I voted for the losing side, either. There were plenty of lunatics on the Remain side who shouldn't have been allowed near a voting booth. There is far too much focus, in my opinion, on people's rights (ie. their right to vote) and not on their responsibilities (ie. making an informed, logical decision). This Referendum being a perfect example - a lot of people wanting to vote for either side without realising what that decision actually meant.

You're right when you say there's not a logical alternative, but democracy is a flawed system, no two ways about it.

Broadly I agree. There's no good way to qualify who should be allowed to vote that won't introduce inherent bias (measuring education not intelligence). That's why I prefer representative government over direct democracy Swiss style. But it annoys me when people make easy criticism instead of being positive about the good democracy has done (loads) and ways to make it bette

[Mifune]

I don't think it's ridiculous to suggest that this decision was far too important and complex to be left up to a referendum.

Maybe. But it is ridiculous to suggest to ignore a referendum after promising the public to act upon one

Not saying that they should but think that if the decision is so closely split and so complicated and so important that there could be an argument for further discussion and understanding before revisiting it.

[Colback's Orange Tufts]

Maybe. But it is ridiculous to suggest to ignore a referendum after promising the public to act upon one

Not saying that they should but think that if the decision is so closely split and so complicated and so important that there could be an argument for further discussion and understanding before revisiting it.

It's a recipe for massive distrust in politics for generations, especially amognst the poor and already partly disenfranchised.

[PFT]

Not saying that they should but think that if the decision is so closely split and so complicated and so important that there could be an argument for further discussion and understanding before revisiting it.

It's a recipe for massive distrust in politics for generations, especially amognst the poor and already partly disenfranchised.

You can guarantee if the result was this close the other way they'd be calling for more debate and discussion on it. I get the feeling that the Leave campaign didn't really think they'd win , can see that by just how little a plan is in place for leaving. We could in theory end up having another general election and a completely new government who don't want to leave.

[PTAO?]

It will be a terrible day for democracy if we fail to carry this through.

[Heisen]

The result of the Referendum has to stand, unfortunately. You're just inviting anarchy if you keep going until you get the result you want.

My personal viewpoint is that this should have been left to the Government to decide. That way, they could have came to a decision about what will happen now we've left, if that's what was decided. Had plans in place. Reassured those of us who wanted to stay. Put it to a vote in Parliament. But don't for the love of God leave it up to 50m people to decide such a huge issue.

[Colback's Orange Tufts]

It's a recipe for massive distrust in politics for generations, especially amognst the poor and already partly disenfranchised.

You can guarantee if the result was this close the other way they'd be calling for more debate and discussion on it. I get the feeling that the Leave campaign didn't really think they'd win , can see that by just how little a plan is in place for leaving. We could in theory end up having another general election and a completely new government who don't want to leave.

Oh sure leave would have asked for it, wouldn't have made it right though.
Even with new election, there'd be more votes for Brexit than any party (or coalition) could muster

[TJR]

It will be a terrible day for democracy if we fail to carry this through.

This.

We have to go through with it now even though we'll be worse off for it.

A decision this important should never have been left to the general public anyway. The majority on both sides had no idea what the consequences of their votes would be.

[PFT]

It will be a terrible day for democracy if we fail to carry this through.

This.

We have to go through with it now even though we'll be worse off for it.

A decision this important should never have been left to the general public anyway. The majority on both sides had no idea what the consequences of their votes would be.

I agree we have to go through with it , I don't agree with the decision but it's been made and democracy must be respected.

In regards to having the referendum in the first place I think it was far too complex an issue for the public to decide. It was certainly far to complex to be decide with a mere "Yes/No".

Ah well. This is life.

[skalpel]

My boss was Pro-Leave, but I didn't know until we had a very insightful discussion about it this week where he raised some excellent points. I guess you can't really say that the idiots amongst the Leave campaign ruined it for the rest of them as they ultimately won, but it certainly gave that whole side of the campaign a very bad look. I was Remain from day one and unshakeable on it anyway, but I guess a large part of my anger over the last 12 hours or so is the thought that my idiot of a next door neighbour has been rewarded for his bigoted, narrow views.

I can really sympathise with that. And I know that for this exact reason it has been hell for intelligent people who properly reasoned their way to a Leave vote. Imagine being a reasonable person who is truly convinced that voting Leave is the right thing to do, and then you live next door to someone like that. You'd probably have to fight back against a sense of responsibility for ostensibly validating that idiot's worldview, and that's on top of being told that you're just like him anyway.

Whenever I think of the idea of voting for the same thing as somebody whose views you find despicable, I'm always reminded of the Tory MP early in the 20th Century who joined in the vote to make it mandatory that every household had a plumbed indoor bathtub, because he couldn't stand having poor people stink up the streets.

[overseasTOON]

May have caused a bit of confusion at work with the spoofed email:

Note to non-UK nationals:

Please have your desk cleared, swipe card handed over to the office manager and be prepared to leave the office at 5pm. The bus to Dover ferry terminal leaves at 5:15 prompt to take you back to the mainland.
You will have 10 minutes to say your goodbyes.

Thank you for working with us.

[Hjl]

"The strongest argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter."

As usual Churchill said it best. I dislike the western approach to these sort of things. "We have a problem, lets throw some more democracy at it" it relies on the population being educated enough to understand what they are voting for, which invariably they arent.

[bodacious benny]

A 30 second conversation with some of the people who live near me would highlight the flaws in letting the average person decided

[Don Sholeone]

The scariest part about all this for me is that all the nobheads and racists who jumped on the leave bandwagon just because "all them foreigners took our jobs" are going to feel validated that their way of thinking is in the majority and from the outside looking in it will be the same.

[bodacious benny]

The scariest part about all this for me is that all the nobheads and racists who jumped on the leave bandwagon just because "all them foreigners took our jobs" are going to feel validated that their way of thinking is in the majority and from the outside looking in it will be the same.

Wonder how long it'll take those people to realise that the real reason that they don't have a job is because they're workshy, lazy bastards

[Heisen]

The scariest part about all this for me is that all the nobheads and racists who jumped on the leave bandwagon just because "all them foreigners took our jobs" are going to feel validated that their way of thinking is in the majority and from the outside looking in it will be the same.

Wonder how long it'll take those people to realise that the real reason that they don't have a job is because they're workshy, lazy bastards

Never. We've somehow bred a society in Britain where a lot of people expect everything for nothing.

[Don Sholeone]

The scariest part about all this for me is that all the nobheads and racists who jumped on the leave bandwagon just because "all them foreigners took our jobs" are going to feel validated that their way of thinking is in the majority and from the outside looking in it will be the same.

Wonder how long it'll take those people to realise that the real reason that they don't have a job is because they're workshy, lazy bastards

That's the hope im clinging on to, so all the bellends spouting off their **** can have a taste of the Britain they want and have voted for, I'll relish the day I get to laugh and say I told you so whilst they chew on the fat turd of their own bigotry and hate.

[PFT]

I might be being far too reactive but the rise of the far-right in this country and elsewhere in Europe genuinely scares me. They are growing with the constant feeding from the media about the threat of the refugees who are fleeing a warzone.