Match day thread - NUFC v Manure

[krully]

as s*** goes, we're the cream of the s***

[Speedo]

So unfortunate tonight. If Atsu could shoot (or pass) I think we might have won. As it is, some terrible misfortune on the first goal and that’s curtains. We are in dire need of some quality behind the striker, not to mention back up (or, dare I say it, a more capable replacement) for Diame.

The system and lopsided overload thing seemed to work quite well for us though. If only we could take our chances.

[vrabbit]

road scoreless draws at Cardiff, Crystal Palace, and Southampton coming back to haunt us as well as the similar home result vs Fulham. Same for the L's vs Brighton, Wolves and specially that 0-3 at WHU. If we can manager better results on the way back we'll be safe but I'd feel so much better about that if I had any hope during this transfer window ...

[The Deluded Pablo Diego Jose Francisco]

Yeah, Chelsea, City, Spurs, Wolves and Cardiff.

I'm certain we'll drop into the bottom 3 with a goal difference worse than those around us.

Sorry I misread your original post and though you meant we'd be 5/6 points above the drop zone!!

I though you did, just wanted to clarify if you didn't

[bodacious benny]

So unfortunate tonight. If Atsu could shoot (or pass) I think we might have won. As it is, some terrible misfortune on the first goal and that’s curtains. We are in dire need of some quality behind the striker, not to mention back up (or, dare I say it, a more capable replacement) for Diame.

The system and lopsided overload thing seemed to work quite well for us though. If only we could take our chances.

Definitely. It’s yet another depressing case of it being a game that tactically we could have won but a chronic and sustained lack of investment in the playing squad means we don’t have the players to play the killer pass correctly or put the ball away when given a chance. Anyone that says “yeah but Rafa spent X amount” can do one, regardless of the players he’s had to wheel and deal to bring in and his Z list targets that have been signed he hasn’t been allowed to go after the top players that we should have the money to go for.

[Heisen]

So unfortunate tonight. If Atsu could shoot (or pass) I think we might have won. As it is, some terrible misfortune on the first goal and that’s curtains. We are in dire need of some quality behind the striker, not to mention back up (or, dare I say it, a more capable replacement) for Diame.

The system and lopsided overload thing seemed to work quite well for us though. If only we could take our chances.

Definitely. It’s yet another depressing case of it being a game that tactically we could have won but a chronic and sustained lack of investment in the playing squad means we don’t have the players to play the killer pass correctly or put the ball away when given a chance. Anyone that says “yeah but Rafa spent X amount” can do one, regardless of the players he’s had to wheel and deal to bring in and his Z list targets that have been signed he hasn’t been allowed to go after the top players that we should have the money to go for.

I might add, spent almost two and a half years ago. And the majority of them are still the backbone of the squad. Eight of the starting XI tonight were regulars for us in the Championship. How anyone can think that is fine is absolutely beyond me.

[Donkey Toon]

Definitely. It’s yet another depressing case of it being a game that tactically we could have won but a chronic and sustained lack of investment in the playing squad means we don’t have the players to play the killer pass correctly or put the ball away when given a chance. Anyone that says “yeah but Rafa spent X amount” can do one, regardless of the players he’s had to wheel and deal to bring in and his Z list targets that have been signed he hasn’t been allowed to go after the top players that we should have the money to go for.

I might add, spent almost two and a half years ago. And the majority of them are still the backbone of the squad. Eight of the starting XI tonight were regulars for us in the Championship. How anyone can think that is fine is absolutely beyond me.

6 of Bournemouth's first team regulars played for them in League One and four others in the championship. Howe has also spent less in the last five windows than Benitez. Howe also isn't reputedly one of the best managers in the world. So of course Rafa can't be expected to do as well as the mighty Bournemouth.

Do I need to mention the number of players Leicester still use regularly that came from lower divisions? They even won the PL with them.

Wolves signed several key players, that most of us would love to have, whilst in the championship, and spent less money to buy their promotion than we did under Rafa.

The "we can't expect to do ok because championship players" excuse is incredibly weak and indicitive of Rafa fans willingness to bend over backwards to defend his failings. None of these excuses would have been used to defend any other manager we've had since Sir Bobby.

[Heisen]

I'm not defending Rafa, nor do I profess to be his biggest fan. Go through my post and see where I've called him out numerous times this season.

I'm pointing out its unacceptable we still have eight Championship standard players in the side two years later, which it is. If it worked for Bournemouth, good for them. Howe may be a better coach than Rafa. But not everything boils down to Rafa vs the world. There are seperate problems running alongside eachother concurrently at the football club, of which Mike Ashley's failure to back the manager is a huge one.

[vrabbit]

I might add, spent almost two and a half years ago. And the majority of them are still the backbone of the squad. Eight of the starting XI tonight were regulars for us in the Championship. How anyone can think that is fine is absolutely beyond me.

6 of Bournemouth's first team regulars played for them in League One and four others in the championship. Howe has also spent less in the last five windows than Benitez. Howe also isn't reputedly one of the best managers in the world. So of course Rafa can't be expected to do as well as the mighty Bournemouth.

Do I need to mention the number of players Leicester still use regularly that came from lower divisions? They even won the PL with them.

Wolves signed several key players, that most of us would love to have, whilst in the championship, and spent less money to buy their promotion than we did under Rafa.

The "we can't expect to do ok because championship players" excuse is incredibly weak and indicitive of Rafa fans willingness to bend over backwards to defend his failings. None of these excuses would have been used to defend any other manager we've had since Sir Bobby.

[Colly]

Don't forget that while we're decrying Atsu (I didn't see last week but I'd love to know how he achieved a good game since I've not seen one from him in three seasons. Can't shoot, can't cross, what's the point?) and the lack of investment, Rafa spent £20+ on two players who could play that position more effectively but has as usual frozen his signings out before they've had a remotely fair shake. It's completely beyond me why we're sending Japan a mint condition Muto rather than giving him a load of minutes over this period and giving some of our players a rest, and god knows what he's done with Murphy.

[Donkey Toon]

vrabbit,

i'm not going down the whole spend debate route again, it's been done way too many times. But I will point out that you have brought up net spend over three windows and I was referring to gross spend over Rafa's tenure (5 windows).

But (not aimed at you) apparently players only have a two year shelf-life because Rafa fans always want to ignore the early windows when Rafa spent (and wasted) a lot of money.

[Donkey Toon]

Don't forget that while we're decrying Atsu (I didn't see last week but I'd love to know how he achieved a good game since I've not seen one from him in three seasons. Can't shoot, can't cross, what's the point?) and the lack of investment, Rafa spent £20+ on two players who could play that position more effectively but has as usual frozen his signings out before they've had a remotely fair shake. It's completely beyond me why we're sending Japan a mint condition Muto rather than giving him a load of minutes over this period and giving some of our players a rest, and god knows what he's done with Murphy.

I'm not a fan of Atsu either but he was one of our better players against Watford, but without actually doing anything with any end product. Was just busy and tricky but didn't muster a shot on goal.

Totally agree re Muto, makes no sense at all and yes Murphy appears to have been pretty much frozen out - which Rafa is wont to do.

edit: can't remember who provided the assist for the goal, but pretty sure it wasn't Atsu.

[Colly]

Ritchie, I think Atsu may have passed to him. I just see no point of an attacking midfielder with literally zero end product, even Perez at his worst gets a goal every 3 or 4 games, and that pass he put in for Atsu today ahead of one of his two backpasses was superb. I still don't know how he justified a permanent move to us, and I'd rather have Sammy Ameobi there...

I genuinely treat this good game at Watford about as incredulously as if you told me we played a unicorn at centre half.

[Donkey Toon]

Ritchie, I think Atsu may have passed to him. I just see no point of an attacking midfielder with literally zero end product, even Perez at his worst gets a goal every 3 or 4 games, and that pass he put in for Atsu today ahead of one of his two backpasses was superb. I still don't know how he justified a permanent move to us, and I'd rather have Sammy Ameobi there...

I genuinely treat this good game at Watford about as incredulously as if you told me we played a unicorn at centre half.

I agree. But to put it in context i'm only acknowledging that he was one of our better players in a dreadful game in which we only mustered two efforts on target. In the grand scheme it was not actually a good performance. Just a relatively good one from a player who sets a very low benchmark.

As for how he earned a permanent move, that is one of the great mysteries. Seem to recall though that he scored a pretty good goal (freekick) and then had a couple of decent games right at the end of his loan spell. Basically did a few good things just before the deadline and maybe did enough to convince Rafa that he hadn't given him a fair shot. Imo still wasn't enough, he was clearly not very good.

[Bruuuuuuuuce ()]

Imagine signing a goalkeeper to play in the Championship for £5m when you had Karl Darlow and Rob Elliot in your squad.

Imagine signing a couple of full backs (Lazaar and Gamez) and selling a young Swiss defender who the majority of fans felt was good enough to stake a claim to play for the first team. Who has gone on to play for the national team and been linked with teams much better than yours.

Imagine signing a striker to play exclusively in the Championship, not recouping your full fee and go and spend more on an absolutely terrible striking option and refuse to use a £27m striker who has managed to score plenty for the team bottom of the league (Murphy - Joselu - Mitrovic).

Imagine knowing you have little funds to work with and using £12m on a winger that you barely use.

Anything else glaringly obvious?

Imagine spending 3 years at a club and your only solution to winning games is to surrender possession and hope for the best.

[Donkey Toon]

Imagine signing a goalkeeper to play in the Championship for £5m when you had Karl Darlow and Rob Elliot in your squad.

Imagine signing a couple of full backs (Lazaar and Gamez) and selling a young Swiss defender who the majority of fans felt was good enough to stake a claim to play for the first team. Who has gone on to play for the national team and been linked with teams much better than yours.

Imagine signing a striker to play exclusively in the Championship, not recouping your full fee and go and spend more on an absolutely terrible striking option and refuse to use a £27m striker who has managed to score plenty for the team bottom of the league (Murphy - Joselu - Mitrovic).

Imagine knowing you have little funds to work with and using £12m on a winger that you barely use.

Anything else glaringly obvious?

Imagine spending 3 years at a club and your only solution to winning games is to surrender possession and hope for the best.

Pretty much sums it up for me. Especially the last line. As i've said before, he is the league's premier proponent of anti-football. Only one plan and that is f***ing clueless.

Could also add that he has had five windows and spent over £120m and only added one permanent signing (Dubravka) that is actually better than he inherited, whilst has let (read pushed out the door by freezing them out) three players (Mitro, Merino and Mbemba) leave whilst replacing them with worse.

Edit: I will acknowledge that Fernandez has been decent and may well go on to be another good signing. But two out of 23(?) signings is hardly a good return.

[Bruuuuuuuuce ()]

Completely forgot Mbemba existed.

[Hjl]

6 of Bournemouth's first team regulars played for them in League One and four others in the championship. Howe has also spent less in the last five windows than Benitez. Howe also isn't reputedly one of the best managers in the world. So of course Rafa can't be expected to do as well as the mighty Bournemouth.

Do I need to mention the number of players Leicester still use regularly that came from lower divisions? They even won the PL with them.

Wolves signed several key players, that most of us would love to have, whilst in the championship, and spent less money to buy their promotion than we did under Rafa.

The "we can't expect to do ok because championship players" excuse is incredibly weak and indicitive of Rafa fans willingness to bend over backwards to defend his failings. None of these excuses would have been used to defend any other manager we've had since Sir Bobby.

Lol -2. That fat greedy bastard.

[Colly]

Imagine signing a goalkeeper to play in the Championship for £5m when you had Karl Darlow and Rob Elliot in your squad.

Imagine signing a couple of full backs (Lazaar and Gamez) and selling a young Swiss defender who the majority of fans felt was good enough to stake a claim to play for the first team. Who has gone on to play for the national team and been linked with teams much better than yours.

Imagine signing a striker to play exclusively in the Championship, not recouping your full fee and go and spend more on an absolutely terrible striking option and refuse to use a £27m striker who has managed to score plenty for the team bottom of the league (Murphy - Joselu - Mitrovic).

Imagine knowing you have little funds to work with and using £12m on a winger that you barely use.

Anything else glaringly obvious?

Imagine spending 3 years at a club and your only solution to winning games is to surrender possession and hope for the best.

He didn't give Florian Thauvin a kick, a player who went on to be in the running for Ligue 1 player of the season, earning a £50m price tag and a World Cup medal along the way.

[bodacious benny]

Imagine signing a goalkeeper to play in the Championship for £5m when you had Karl Darlow and Rob Elliot in your squad.

Imagine signing a couple of full backs (Lazaar and Gamez) and selling a young Swiss defender who the majority of fans felt was good enough to stake a claim to play for the first team. Who has gone on to play for the national team and been linked with teams much better than yours.

Imagine signing a striker to play exclusively in the Championship, not recouping your full fee and go and spend more on an absolutely terrible striking option and refuse to use a £27m striker who has managed to score plenty for the team bottom of the league (Murphy - Joselu - Mitrovic).

Imagine knowing you have little funds to work with and using £12m on a winger that you barely use.

Anything else glaringly obvious?

Imagine spending 3 years at a club and your only solution to winning games is to surrender possession and hope for the best.

He didn't give Florian Thauvin a kick, a player who went on to be in the running for Ligue 1 player of the season, earning a £50m price tag and a World Cup medal along the way.

Although he played one minute in that tournament