Match thread - Norwich V NUFC

[Donkey Toon]

Well taken by Shelvey, but 3-1 flatters us.

[Tsi]

No effort from us at all, Norwich won't have an easier game all season.

[Sanchino]

We need three up top. 1 through the middle and 2 wide. Rafa eventually realized that we had to do this, which meant two in the park which meant no Shelvey. It's not rocket science. Hayden and Longstaff in the engine room and get that extra man up top.

This. Shelvey is a nice tidy passer who can occasional score a screamer.. apart from that what does he offer? in terms of all-round play / box-to-box ability Hayden and Longstaff are better they may not be better passers of the ball but better in terms of aggression, tackling, intercepting, positional sense, footballing IQ, work-rate, mobility and there much less reckless / lazy / disclipined than Shelvey. Keep Shelvey on the bench to give us a plan B if we need a break through but with Longstaff's passing and vision when he gets up to speed and match fitness we won't need Jonjo. It's not rocket science, Bruce needs simply look at Rafa's 3-4-3 variation of last season and if wants to implant it his own way weather it be more attacking or more defensive then up to him.

Dubra
3 defenders
Ritchie Longstaff Hayden Willems
Miggy Joelinton ASM

Play this against Tottenham / Watford at home. The Watford at home game is starting to become a MASSIVE game as we lose that we're going to start drifting away with a hard fixture list leading towards Christmas.

[Donkey Toon]

No effort from us at all, Norwich won't have an easier game all season.

This.

[Don Sholeone]

Absolute garbage, a lot of those players should be ashamed of themselves, didnt look bothered at all, if there were points given out for standing around and jogging we would have picked up all 3 today, felt sorry for Krafth, seemed a few fingers been pointed at him on commentary for a couple of the goals but he's our wing back picking up their most dangerous player who's a striker, thought Dubravka on another day would have saved at least 2 of those.

Once again Schar was crap, Shelvey dispite the goal didn't look bothered, Ki wasn't much better, Ritchie once again showing non league crossing ability. People were slagging off Joelinton earlier yet our most experienced Premier League players and on pitch leaders put in some of their worst performances for us, pretty insulting that it took us being 3-0 down to show a bit of effort.

[ColbacksFlamingBarnet]

Getting massive Schteve vibes now - lots of money spent, players not looking arsed and the tactics just not working. I don't normally panic, but f*** me today was dire. Formation and players need changing. People might have complained about Rafa's football being boring, but you can barely even call this football ffs.

[Tsi]

Getting massive Schteve vibes now - lots of money spent, players not looking arsed and the tactics just not working. I don't normally panic, but f*** me today was dire. Formation and players need changing. People might have complained about Rafa's football being boring, but you can barely even call this football ffs.

If we'd had played this bad on the first day of the season i'd be worried as well, even though we didn't play great first game we weren't this poor. I agree there needs to be a formation change said it from the first game and players need to be dropped. Our record under Rafa first 10 games was piss poor (2017-18 2W 2D 6L 2018-19 0W 2D 8L) but that was more down to tactics than players lack of effort.
The sheer lack of effort is the most worrying and if he can't get a handle on it as well as tactics i can see this being a very long uncomfortable season for sure.

[Donkey Toon]

Getting massive Schteve vibes now - lots of money spent, players not looking arsed and the tactics just not working. I don't normally panic, but **** me today was dire. Formation and players need changing. People might have complained about Rafa's football being boring, but you can barely even call this football ffs.

If we'd had played this bad on the first day of the season i'd be worried as well, even though we didn't play great first game we weren't this poor. I agree there needs to be a formation change said it from the first game and players need to be dropped. Our record under Rafa first 10 games was piss poor (2017-18 2W 2D 6L 2018-19 0W 2D 8L) but that was more down to tactics than players lack of effort.
The sheer lack of effort is the most worrying and if he can't get a handle on it as well as tactics i can see this being a very long uncomfortable season for sure.

This is exactly where I was a few hours ago. But then I remembered our 2nd game last season was that terrible 0-0 vs Cardiff where neither side deserved anything and there was a significant lack of effort from our team, summed up by Kennedy's dire last minute penalty miss. The parallels to this performance are uncanny, so i'm now a little less pessimistic than I was. But Bruce needs to start getting his act together sharpish because so far he has been well below what is acceptable … as have the team.

[Bruuuuuuuuce ()]

If we'd had played this bad on the first day of the season i'd be worried as well, even though we didn't play great first game we weren't this poor. I agree there needs to be a formation change said it from the first game and players need to be dropped. Our record under Rafa first 10 games was piss poor (2017-18 2W 2D 6L 2018-19 0W 2D 8L) but that was more down to tactics than players lack of effort.
The sheer lack of effort is the most worrying and if he can't get a handle on it as well as tactics i can see this being a very long uncomfortable season for sure.

This is exactly where I was a few hours ago. But then I remembered our 2nd game last season was that terrible 0-0 vs Cardiff where neither side deserved anything and there was a significant lack of effort from our team, summed up by Kennedy's dire last minute penalty miss. The parallels to this performance are uncanny, so i'm now a little less pessimistic than I was. But Bruce needs to start getting his act together sharpish because so far he has been well below what is acceptable … as have the team.

Although, we had 10 men for 40 minutes in that game... so coming away with a point was actually alright and then it was disappointing because they never really troubled us and we had a chance to win it late on... today we played XI v XI against a championship side that has barely invested a penny in teh summer and we got absolutely mauled.

But yeah, very similar.

[Jaiston]

Bruce in being utterly f***ing s*** shocker.

[Tsi]

For me there is one uncanny resemblance to McClaren that seems to come across so far as in the players enjoy an almost mate like atmosphere on the training ground with Bruce and his staff which is the complete opposite of Rafa which just goes to show he needs to knock that s*** on the head sharpish. One thing with Rafa that isn't in dispute was his ability to drop anyone that wasn't performing i just don't get the same vibe from Bruce i can see the likes of Shelvey and Lascelles getting picked no matter how bad they are.

[Colly]

I think you have to give him a bit of time to decide that, Rafa was rightly quick to drop Lascelles and stick Fernandez in, but he stuck with a woeful Shelvey throughout that horrible spell at the start of last season. Were it not for the injury I dread to think whether we'd ever have seen Ki or Longstaff.

[Tsi]

I think you have to give him a bit of time to decide that, Rafa was rightly quick to drop Lascelles and stick Fernandez in, but he stuck with a woeful Shelvey throughout that horrible spell at the start of last season. Were it not for the injury I dread to think whether we'd ever have seen Ki or Longstaff.

True we have to give him time to do it but i don't have that much confidence he will but here's hoping and as for seeing Longstaff i doubt we would have not for those injuries.

[bodacious benny]

According to Bruce:

“I can't question the desire. Nobody was not trying”.

[Toondes]

I’ve just watched motd now that I’ve calmed down a bit. I have to say Schar was by far and away our worst defender . Almiron looks completely lost playing in this system , he doesn’t get into goal scoring positions and we seem to be relying on a long punt to Joelinton and hoping for a bit of magic when he’s against 2-3 defenders. Hopefully Brice pulls his finger out as we look so dis- organised.
Worrying early signs but hopefully we can turn this around. Watford at home is definitely a must win for me .Tottenham won’t be a pretty game so hopefully our confidence won’t be destroyed after that.

[Tsi]

According to Bruce:

“I can't question the desire. Nobody was not trying”.

Was he talking about Norwich

[bodacious benny]

Seeing the goals on MOTD, defensive frailties aside Dubravka should have saved the first, and should have probably done better with the second too.

[Colly]

This is an incredibly early and potentially knee jerk view, but what the hell.

My initial optimism for this season was based on Bruce being able to take the solid base Rafa had created and build on it. What I've seen in one home game and highlights of Norwich is what to me looks like an attempt to do things differently almost for the sake of doing things differently, and that terrifies me. The back 6 is identical to last season, but ahead of that instead of the two man midfield that keeps possession, cycles the ball to the front three and most importantly keeps discipline to allow the wing backs to provide width, we now have a midfield three that does the exact opposite. We've added an extra more defensive player and actually ended up more vulnerable. Shelvey is nowhere near good enough to play the holding role alone so our defense is under pressure, and Longstaff and Hayden clearly aren't the type of CMs to play as pseudo wingers ahead of him (I'm not sure who is...). That one change has made us weaker at the back, stupidly narrow, and left our forward two completely isolated.

Tl:dr, if he's going to keep the back 5 he has to play the rest of Rafas formation. Otherwise I'm worried.

[Remember Colo]

As others have said, pretty shocking match. The CBs were completely devoid of awareness and positioning, repeatedly leaving Pukki alone and requiring their RWB to try and clean up their mess. The CMs were phantoms, somehow missing the entire match (I wouldn't have even known Ki was playing if not for the pre-match lineup presentation), and the forwards were subsequently disconnected from everyone but some poorly placed crosses from the wingbacks. I won't pretend the team didn't look terrible to start each of the past two seasons, so I don't think this was some unique to Bruce problem, but they better show some more effort and cohesion in the weeks to come.

[Bruuuuuuuuce ()]

As others have said, pretty shocking match. The CBs were completely devoid of awareness and positioning, repeatedly leaving Pukki alone and requiring their RWB to try and clean up their mess. The CMs were phantoms, somehow missing the entire match (I wouldn't have even known Ki was playing if not for the pre-match lineup presentation), and the forwards were subsequently disconnected from everyone but some poorly placed crosses from the wingbacks. I won't pretend the team didn't look terrible to start each of the past two seasons, so I don't think this was some unique to Bruce problem, but they better show some more effort and cohesion in the weeks to come.

This is what I find canny funny. The central defenders were f***ing s****. Yet it was Dummett and Lascelles giving it the big one in their Sunday training session saying 'it wasn't good enough' according to Waugh in The Athletic.