Pre-Christmas Fixtures

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Re: Pre-Christmas Fixtures

Post by Hjl » Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:22 am

UlversToon wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:20 am
Hjl wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:22 am
Brighton H - D
Southampton A - L
Watford H - L
Bournemouth H - L
Burnley A - L
West Ham H - W
Everton A - L
Wolves H - D
Huddersfield A - D
Fulham H - L (Mitro scores)

6 points
We've already lost to Brighton so I make that 5 points!
pfft, i knew my prediction was overly optimistic.

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Re: Pre-Christmas Fixtures

Post by Bodacious Benny » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:09 am



I don't always like his articles, but this is spot on.
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Re: Pre-Christmas Fixtures

Post by lassassinblanc » Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:52 am

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:09 am


I don't always like his articles, but this is spot on.
<laugh>

The response to Robbie Fowlers reply
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Re: Pre-Christmas Fixtures

Post by Bodacious Benny » Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:59 am

I can't see it, what did he say <scratch>
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Re: Pre-Christmas Fixtures

Post by Colly » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:33 am

I like George in general, but he's really not saying anything more than any of us have recently, particularly in his second paragraph that says he's not immune from criticism which seems to defy the headline (which of course will have been his editors, not his). Otherwise there's some odd strawmans, no one has ever asked to play like Keegan but to actually hold our shape rather than end a game with Shelvey and Kenedy playing fullbacks would be nice. And I cant remember many real complaints about him speaking out against Ashley.

My biggest issue though is the statement that "he'll make players better. They have evidence". Who has he improved in his time here? Shelvey had that spell at the end of last season but this year he's back to sitting ineffectively behind our centre halfs. As mentioned his "Championship standard" signings have remained just that, and young prospects like Hayden have regressed rather than improved. Premier League signings like Perez seem to be going back over. There's maybe an argument for Lascelles who went from a bit part young player to a mainstay, but he was scouted young and improved physically, I'd no more credit Rafa for that than I would Chris Hughton for Andy Carroll. For all of Rafa's attributes improving players is not something I'd ever put on him, and sadly that's something we definitely need.

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Re: Pre-Christmas Fixtures

Post by Bodacious Benny » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:22 am

That'a a fair enough viewpoint. But you could argue that Shelvey etc. would have more potential to improve were they playing alongside better players (that we haven't been allowed to buy under Ashley). Put any player with ability or potential in a poor team and they'll struggle to improve, the best you can hope for is the occasional good run of form i.e. Diame and Perez the second half of last season (who are now back to their 'norm'. The rest of the time you're effectively swimming against the tide. Playing with better players in itself will help to make players better. In any workplace if you're in a poor team or surrounded by incompetence you're never going to progress and ultimately it will drag you down until you leave.
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Re: Pre-Christmas Fixtures

Post by lassassinblanc » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:43 am

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:59 am
I can't see it, what did he say <scratch>
Fowler said something like bar the roads, water ducts etc. etc. what have the Romans ever given us

someone replied

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Re: Pre-Christmas Fixtures

Post by Colly » Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:26 am

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:22 am
That'a a fair enough viewpoint. But you could argue that Shelvey etc. would have more potential to improve were they playing alongside better players (that we haven't been allowed to buy under Ashley). Put any player with ability or potential in a poor team and they'll struggle to improve, the best you can hope for is the occasional good run of form i.e. Diame and Perez the second half of last season (who are now back to their 'norm'. The rest of the time you're effectively swimming against the tide. Playing with better players in itself will help to make players better. In any workplace if you're in a poor team or surrounded by incompetence you're never going to progress and ultimately it will drag you down until you leave.
I probably don't disagree, but that still doesn't chime with Caulkin's "they have evidence". Even at Liverpool he didn't particularly have a record of bringing young players through. He seems to be a manager who can do good things with good players, but not an awful lot of experimentation or flexibility in either trying out young players or even just putting players he wants shot of in the shop window to try and get a return on them. Our official twitter reminded me this morning that Colback is still on the books, let's not forget that Rafa "Robert Lee"d him last season when he could've done a job while Dummett was out injured.

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Re: Pre-Christmas Fixtures

Post by Remember Colo » Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:25 pm

I think my broad issue is that we seem to only play one way, which is to be very structured and defensive, hoping to hold out against pressure. Problem with that is that they seem devoid of ideas on how to break down lesser sides, and it puts a lot of pressure on players not to make individual errors for 90 minutes. Well the side isn't good enough to seemingly withstand that much pressure and not concede something, and once a goal or 2 is inevitably conceded, they don't seem prepared to score some back. The system clearly isn't working, because they still haven't won a match an its nearly November!

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Re: Pre-Christmas Fixtures

Post by Colly » Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:52 pm

I think it was Craig Bellamy on The Debate on Sky who pointed out how difficult it is from going from playing this ultra negative style against the big teams and then suddenly be expected to create something against "lesser" teams.

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Re: Pre-Christmas Fixtures

Post by Remember Colo » Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:38 pm

Colly wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:52 pm
I think it was Craig Bellamy on The Debate on Sky who pointed out how difficult it is from going from playing this ultra negative style against the big teams and then suddenly be expected to create something against "lesser" teams.
Totally my thinking too. Especially with the same players, in the same formation. It's unreasonable to expect different results or to suddenly know how to effectively use the extra possession or create chances. Teams should be flexible in their tactics, but at the same time, the best sides always have a trademark style of play that is drilled into them, and I sometimes don't even know what ours is, and it certainly isn't effective against whichever side we play. It really seems right now Benitez's set-up is best applied as a means to keep things close with top sides, but it doesn't lend itself to beating those teams, nor makes them prepared to beat the lesser teams.

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Re: Pre-Christmas Fixtures

Post by Donkey Toon » Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:56 pm

Yep, 4 games now against so-called lesser teams (if you include Leicester, which I think is fair) and zero goals scored.

Meanwhile conceded at least two in every game where we played the ultra-defensive tactics. Rafa can have no excuse if he doesn't change tactics, Plan A is clearly not working.

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Re: Pre-Christmas Fixtures

Post by overseasTOON » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:07 pm

Donkey Toon wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:56 pm
Yep, 4 games now against so-called lesser teams (if you include Leicester, which I think is fair) and zero goals scored.

Meanwhile conceded at least two in every game where we played the ultra-defensive tactics. Rafa can have no excuse if he doesn't change tactics, Plan A is clearly not working.
If you speak to Liverpool fans they'll tell you that Rafa never had a Plan B.

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Re: Pre-Christmas Fixtures

Post by Donkey Toon » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:34 pm

overseasTOON wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:07 pm
Donkey Toon wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:56 pm
Yep, 4 games now against so-called lesser teams (if you include Leicester, which I think is fair) and zero goals scored.

Meanwhile conceded at least two in every game where we played the ultra-defensive tactics. Rafa can have no excuse if he doesn't change tactics, Plan A is clearly not working.
If you speak to Liverpool fans they'll tell you that Rafa never had a Plan B.

Yep my Liverpool supporting brother has already reminded me of this. He phoned up to sympathise (take the piss really) after the Brighton game and went to great length to help depress me even further along the lines of Rafa's stubborness at keeping to "his preferred way of playing" when he was at the Dippers. As if I needed help feeling depressed about the shower of s*** that is our season to date.

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Re: Pre-Christmas Fixtures

Post by CIH » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:13 pm

Big Sam by Xmas?

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Re: Pre-Christmas Fixtures

Post by Colly » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:54 pm

<neg>

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Re: Pre-Christmas Fixtures

Post by Bodacious Benny » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:02 pm

Micky Quim wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:08 pm
Bodacious Benny wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:20 am
Okay, so to tide us over the last few days of the international break lull, what are people's realistic expectations for our games in the run-up to Christmas? The run is favorable compared to our first eight games, and if we don't pick up decent points then relegation looks like a distinct possibility. Our games are;

Brighton H - must win, anything less than 3 points isn't good enough (3)
Southampton A - we can win this as they look poor (as have we at times), but I'd take a draw (1)
Watford H - Again, think we need to win this, Watford are inconsistent (3)
Bournemouth H - they'll pose us problems, a draw wouldn't be bad (1)
Burnley A - they're picking up after being knocked out of Europe, it'll be an ugly games which they'll narrowly win (0)
West Ham H - tricky to predict, a draw would do me (1)
Everton A - can't see anything other than a defeat (0)
Wolves H - It really depends, at the moment bases on how good they look I'd take a point (1)
Huddersfield A - has to be a win here, they should be relegated this season (3)
Fulham H - Is also a must win, and we should win (3)

So I think about 16 points from those games. A few we could potentially win e.g. Southampton away, West Ham at home but we're equally likely to stuff up and lose one or both...
<laugh> Only just spotted this. Hilarious
I predicted 8 points from our last 4 games, we got 7. Not so far off <roll>
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Re: Pre-Christmas Fixtures

Post by Micky Quim » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:29 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:02 pm
Micky Quim wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:08 pm


<laugh> Only just spotted this. Hilarious
I predicted 8 points from our last 4 games, we got 7. Not so far off <roll>
<ok>

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Re: Pre-Christmas Fixtures

Post by Speedo » Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:07 am

Just looking at the fixture list - with our next two games being Burnley away and then West Ham at home, i.e. the teams directly below and above us respectively, we’ve got a great opportunity to move away from the relegation fight and into mid-table if we can get 4 or 6 points from them. And then Huddersfield and Fulham just before Christmas... IMO we should be looking for about 8-10 points from those 4 alone. Not expecting more than 1 or 2 points from Everton and Wolves...
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Re: Pre-Christmas Fixtures

Post by Bodacious Benny » Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:46 pm

Wolves is a strange one, 3 weeks ago you’d think they’d be nailed on to win but they’ve had a bit of a blip. Burnley and West Ham we really need to be aiming for 4 points.
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