Rafa Out?

Do you want Rafa out?

Yes
9
24%
No
29
76%
 
Total votes: 38

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Chappy
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Rafa Out?

Post by Chappy » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:11 am

Just curious, after seeing a few people on here that want him out - how many actually want him gone?
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Re: Rafa Out?

Post by TJR » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:39 am

Sometimes I wonder what we've done to deserve Ashley and why we can't we just be a normal club with a bit of ambition.

The Rafa out brigade are exactly why. They're embarrassing, short sighted and deserve nothing but Ashley. Probably the sort who go round punching horses.

Rafa isn't perfect but he's by far the best manager we're going to get. There aren't many more succesful in the business never mind willing to come to Newcastle.

Also he's done a good job here so far. He got us promoted. Then with what was a Championship squad he guided us to a top half finish last season. At the end of the season the feel good factor was back, we had some momentum and it was the perfect platform to build from.

Ashley/Charnley killed the momentum and drained the club of any sort of positivity. That wasn't Rafas fault. To blame anyone but Ashley for our current predicament is incredibly short sighted.

This squad is amongst the five worst in the league (arguably 3rd worst after Huddersfield and Cardiff). There is no doubt about that. With a squad like ours the only realistic target can be to scrape survival.

Rafa isn't happy about that and made it known. He isn't another yes man like Pardew, he stands up for himself and the fans against Ashleys running of the club. He knows this squad isn't good enough and hasn't been allowed to improve it.

Despite that he'll keep us up. Who are we realistically going to get to replace him ? Nobody anywhere near as good a manager as him.

Thankfully this Rafa out nonsense only seems to be a few doylems on twitter and a couple on here. The vast majority of match going fans are behind him. It was great seeing the entire away end singing his name after the match at Southampton.

Rafa Benitez is not the problem. Mike Ashley is the problem.

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Re: Rafa Out?

Post by Speedo » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:40 am

Yeah anyone who thinks Rafa needs to go needs their head checked. Mental.
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Re: Rafa Out?

Post by lassassinblanc » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:57 am

Rafa is one the only good things about our club. I know the results don't look great at the moment but we have played 5 out of the top 6 teams in premier league last season.

I know the results and perhaps the performances against Cardiff, Southampton and Palace haven't been great but we came out of those with points.

But we have to be honest too that majority of players who have been brought in have been the managers 4/5/6/7th choice because we have an owner who won't/ couldn't be arsed to pay more.

I still think Rafa will turn it around we only need that bit of luck were like the game against Brighton were the ball goes in off someones backside.
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Re: Rafa Out?

Post by overseasTOON » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:07 am

I'm off to punch a horse in the balls.

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Re: Rafa Out?

Post by Chappy » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:16 am

I get where the Rafa Out lot are coming from, kind of - 0 wins in 10 and it's not looking good. And as good a manager he is, he has his faults. Man Management being one of them.
TJR wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:39 am
Despite that he'll keep us up. Who are we realistically going to get to replace him ? Nobody anywhere near as good a manager as him.

Thankfully this Rafa out nonsense only seems to be a few doylems on twitter and a couple on here. The vast majority of match going fans are behind him. It was great seeing the entire away end singing his name after the match at Southampton.

Rafa Benitez is not the problem. Mike Ashley is the problem.
But I agree - who are we going to get that's better? That will be able to keep us up? I don't know if we'll stay up this year, our luck will eventually run out - look at Sunderland. We can't rely on miracles every year.

Ashley is the problem. Rafa hasn't had the backing we've needed and we still have a very poor side.

"But he invested when we were in the Championship"

"It's a poor side but a side Rafa built"


Yes, he was backed in the Championship - and Rafa got the results and got us back to the top flight first time of asking. It was a strong Championship side he built with plenty of squad depth in mind, to give us the best chance of promotion - he achieved that. But since we've been back we haven't had the same sort of backing, so we're stuck with a Championship side. A few of our players can cut the mustard but the majority can't - and next to no funds in the transfer window means we can only buy more of the same - s****.
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Re: Rafa Out?

Post by Colly » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:49 pm

TJR wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:39 am
To blame anyone but Ashley for our current predicament is incredibly short sighted.
I would argue that this in incredibly short sighted. Is Ashley the biggest problem at this club? Yes, undoubtedly. But to suggest that Rafa bears no responsibility demonstrates some worrying tunnel vision.

I haven't ticked the poll because I don't feel strongly one way or the other. I wouldn't sack him, but at the same time I wouldn't hold a whole let of regret if he went, certainly not compared with my positivity when he took the job. Reputation wise he's an outstanding manager, but watching how he sets his teams up week in week out, failing to react at all with a change of tactics or personnel and fundamentally failing to motivate his players I can't give him any credit this season. I genuinely think he's given up, and if that is the case what's the point in him staying on?

I've done this to death in other threads, but putting aside all issues with Ashley, Rafa has put together a side that shows no sign of any tactical system that he's trying to build, he's got rid of players more suited to it than those he's got, and seemingly alienated better players in Mitrovic and Merino to the point of leaving (don't get me started on Thauvin or De Jong). He starts every game looking like a lower league side parking the bus regardless of opposition, and the players react to that by playing with utter fear. And when he needs to change the game? He doesn't change the game.

His past record? Say what you will about signing Championship players but Gayle and Ritchie came from the Premier League, as did Hayden and Yedlin, plus Atsu and we hardly stormed that, certainly by comparison to what Chris Hughton did (albeit Hughton had a few experienced players plus the likes of Colo and Jose who came on leaps and bounds that season, but Rafa did have quality in the likes of Shelvey) , and largely playing fairly awful football. Last season? 10th was an outstanding finish, but that midtable was incredibly tight, 4 points less and we'd have been 15th (which would still have been an achievement). Job done in both cases, but not spectacularly, and I don't feel its the miracle that some like to make out.

This is very rambly as I'm on my lunch and I've probably been clearer in other threads, but this is all academic really. Ashley won't sack him as Rafa's the one PR success he has left. Rafa won't walk due to pride, but just doesn't seem up for it. So we're stuck in this wonderful period of going to games where the team look less up for it than under McLaren with seemingly no end in sight. Hey ho, see you Saturday.

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Re: Rafa Out?

Post by Colly » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:56 pm

TJR wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:39 am
Sometimes I wonder what we've done to deserve Ashley and why we can't we just be a normal club with a bit of ambition.

The Rafa out brigade are exactly why. They're embarrassing, short sighted and deserve nothing but Ashley. Probably the sort who go round punching horses.

Thankfully this Rafa out nonsense only seems to be a few doylems on twitter and a couple on here. The vast majority of match going fans are behind him. It was great seeing the entire away end singing his name after the match at Southampton.
Just to add that this is nonsense. There is no vocal "Rafa out" campaign, so the idea that this is why we can't have a normal club makes no sense at all. There is however a growing murmuring in the ground, you talk to fans around you and they can see issues on the pitch that Rafa doesn't seem to be spotting, and recently some of his subs have been booed (not by me, don't do that.). These aren't 16 year old radgies, these are guys in their 60s who've watched a hell of a lot of football. We are playing objectively badly, and you can't pass all of that to the owner.

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Re: Rafa Out?

Post by Donkey Toon » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:38 pm

Out. Not going to bother explaining why, you know my views by now. Plus Colly has made all the points i'd want to make better than i'd have made them myself.

Just want to single out his responses to TJR's nonsense comments for special endorsement. Tunnel vision or cognitive dissonance, take your pick.

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Re: Rafa Out?

Post by TBC » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:10 pm

Donkey Toon wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:38 pm
Out. Not going to bother explaining why, you know my views by now. Plus Colly has made all the points i'd want to make better than i'd have made them myself.

Just want to single out his responses to TJR's nonsense comments for special endorsement. Tunnel vision or cognitive dissonance, take your pick.
And replace him with who exactly?

I don’t disagree with any of what’s been said by Colly, but also TJR is right that we won’t hire better, certainly under this regime.

For that reason above all else, I’d stick.
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Re: Rafa Out?

Post by Heisen » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:13 pm

To sack Rafa would be futile as there isn't anyone that could do a better job with the resources he's been given, in my opinion.

However that doesn't mean he's beyond criticism and he has to take his fair share of the blame for where we are at this present moment. Everybody was quick to fawn over him last year when we reached 10th, so it's only fair you question him when we're 19th. His subs have been poor all season and his tactics in my opinion have cost us at least 4 points so far this year (Cardiff away and the shambles that was the second half at Man Utd) and the football is beyond boring, I can't remember us being this dull.

There doesn't have to be this massive divide where you either want Ashley out and Rafa is a God, or Rafa is the whole problem. Everybody is culpable for where we are right now, Ashley hasn't provided the funds, Benitez isn't making the most of what he has got and the players need to start taking responsibility. There has been a distinct lack of leadership so far this season from everyone, we feel like a rudderless ship heading for the rocks before everyone bails.

I'm fed up of the lot of them right now, it's very difficult to care when nobody at the club seems to and we play dreadful football.
Last edited by Heisen on Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rafa Out?

Post by krully » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:16 pm

Nahhh
but he is going to have to change how we play versus teams we should be around

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Re: Rafa Out?

Post by Donkey Toon » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:43 pm

TBC wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:10 pm
Donkey Toon wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:38 pm
Out. Not going to bother explaining why, you know my views by now. Plus Colly has made all the points i'd want to make better than i'd have made them myself.

Just want to single out his responses to TJR's nonsense comments for special endorsement. Tunnel vision or cognitive dissonance, take your pick.
And replace him with who exactly?

I don’t disagree with any of what’s been said by Colly, but also TJR is right that we won’t hire better, certainly under this regime.

For that reason above all else, I’d stick.

Don't know who, not my job to pick his replacement but to assume that there is nobody out there who could do a better job is defeatist and short sighted. I'd argue there are already 19 managers in the PL alone that are currently doing a better job.

My primary reason for saying he should go now is because it is clear to me that he has either given up or run out of ideas, or both. Otherwise i'd say give him to the end of the season. But I have so little faith that he is going to muster the points needed I don't see what we have to lose by trying somebody else.

I'm also hoping that Ashley will have foresight enough to see the need to sanction a healthy transfer budget for January and suspect that he, like me, does not trust Rafa with it. For a new manager he may well be more forthcoming and in that scenario it makes sense to give a new manager time to try out the squad before deciding what additions he needs to make. The run of games up to xmas is as good as you could wish for to blood a new manager.

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Re: Rafa Out?

Post by Somebodys pinched my sombrero » Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:57 pm

I voted no, but he's not entirely blameless in our latest debacle. I'm still in the Rafa camp but I'm edging my way towards the door.

Great post by Colly.
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Re: Rafa Out?

Post by CIH » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:41 pm

Somebodys pinched my sombrero wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:57 pm
I voted no, but he's not entirely blameless in our latest debacle. I'm still in the Rafa camp but I'm edging my way towards the door.

Great post by Colly.
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Re: Rafa Out?

Post by FogOnTheRhine » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:32 am

We had comfortably the largest wage and transfer budget in the Championship, to fail to get promoted would have been nothing short of abject failure. He did a good job last season but there are signs of our early failures from that season showing already and very few indications of any lessons having been learnt. He either doesn't know what to change or doesn't care enough to find the answer and, to be honest, I'd rather see us get relegated whilst having a go than going out with a whimper not even getting a shot on target against the likes of sodding Southampton. This is the first season in a long while where I've not even had the slightest urge to watch us play, and I watched most of our games under Carver.

Ultimately it's not Rafa's fault that he's been given his 4th choice players, but from what I've seen this season there's no plan whatsoever and that's certainly not Ashley's fault; Blackpool showed that even s**** players can be entertaining. Truthfully I couldn't care less if Rafa goes or not I just want to enjoy watching football again and I see little chance of that happening whilst he's serving up this dross every week.
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Re: Rafa Out?

Post by Hjl » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:08 pm

So I can't be the only one who watched the Leicester owners helicopter crash and felt terrible, only to feel like an even more terrible person for wondering if Mike Ashley has a helicopter....

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Re: Rafa Out?

Post by Colly » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:13 pm

Hjl wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:08 pm
So I can't be the only one who watched the Leicester owners helicopter crash and felt terrible, only to feel like an even more terrible person for wondering if Mike Ashley has a helicopter....
I really hope you are, because that's pathetic. Even as a joke.

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Re: Rafa Out?

Post by Hjl » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:46 am

Colly wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:13 pm
Hjl wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:08 pm
So I can't be the only one who watched the Leicester owners helicopter crash and felt terrible, only to feel like an even more terrible person for wondering if Mike Ashley has a helicopter....
I really hope you are, because that's pathetic. Even as a joke.
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Re: Rafa Out?

Post by ExiledMag » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:01 am

From the starting 11 every week, which one's are his fourth choices? Because from what I can gather he wanted Rondon for ages and Fernández (despite initially being told he was too old to buy).. I don't think the club trusts him with a big budget and we're stuck in the middle of a game of politics.. The money is there if Rafa sticks to the clubs blue print but he won't so we're not making signings... I think he should go, he's living off a reputation at the moment

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